pH Oils.

Kramer

Extreme Member
Hey you pepper heads,
 
Wanted to get some opinions on adding oil to sauce that's not pasteurized.  Basically, if your sauce is a low enough pH, can it be left alive while adding a bit of oil and still inhibiting bad stuff from growing while in the fridge?
 
First, I am merely a hobbyist.  My family and I are the only consumers of my fermented sauces and other creations, so I don't need to comply to any commercial standards, but I do everything as clean and sterile as possible.  In my first season, out of 20 ferments, not one has gone bad.  That said, I like to add some canola oil (and vinegar) to my sauce.  Hardly much, though, perhaps 1-2 tbsp per quart (of oil, I use much more vinegar).  I understand that adding oil to a ferment can be bad since it can create a hydrophobic area where bad bugs can grow.  But, when blended up into sauce where the pH is already much lower, I'm not sure.
 
How I make sauce, too, it really does not separate so much.  It all kind of stays together even without gums, halfway between a liquid and a fine paste, and always in the fridge.  When I finish a ferment, and process it into a sauce, it is immediately bottled without any significant heat (i.e. cooking or pasteurizing), and then immediately into the fridge where it really gets better every week.  We pull it out when we want it, and enjoy it.  Some even a couple months later, to no ill effect yet.
 
Anyways..not trying to spread misinformation on what NOT to do, but how do you guys feel about this?  Sketchy practice or reasonably okay?  I wouldn't let it go for years, but for use within 2-3 months, it seems to be no problem so far, but do not want to take that for granted.
 
Cheers,
 
Alex
 

salsalady

Business Member
Greetings Kramer. Welcome to THP.

Glad to hear you are having fun. What is the purpose if adding oil?

Salsalady
 

Kramer

Extreme Member
Heya salsalady,

I first tried it because a lot of my favorite purchased sauces (both fermented and non-fermented) have oil in their ingredients. But after making a few sauces with and without it, it seems to me even a small amount of a neutral oil (like canola) helps with texture and makes it a bit creamier or perhaps savory is the word? It also lightens the color which looks nice, but that's pretty insignificant to me.
 

salsalady

Business Member
Seems like you are looking at emulsion. Like what salad dressings are doing with the vinegar and oil.

From reading your first post, where you stated the sauce was to be refrigerated, it should be ok for a few weeks. Do NOT try to put oils into any kind of 'shelf stable ' sauce without proper knowledge, instruction, and approval.

Commercial sauces containing any type of fats are strictly regulated for good reason. Even a bbq sauce containing butter required the maker to be strictly regulated and processing certified.

Shelf stable oil products, if done wrong are a really bad level of nasty!!!!!


There are a Lot of stabilizers other than oil. Theres a Sticky somewhere in the making hot sauce section.

SL
 

Kramer

Extreme Member
Okay, gotcha - thanks for the advice!
 

salsalady

Business Member
dave65 said:
I heard that putting fresh peppers in oil can produce Botulism?  What's that about, nonsense?
 
Thanks.
Absolutely not nonsense! Botulism will happen. Most recipes for canning peppers have 2 cups of vinegar and 1/4 cup oil then boiling water bath and the recipes say 'do not alter the vinegar and oil ratios'. Recipes with straight oil and roasted peppers say to refrigerate and use quickly.
 
dave65 said:
I heard that putting fresh peppers in oil can produce Botulism? What's that about, nonsense?

Thanks.


salsalady said:
Absolutely not nonsense! Botulism will happen. Most recipes for canning peppers have 2 cups of vinegar and 1/4 cup oil then boiling water bath and the recipes say 'do not alter the vinegar and oil ratios'. Recipes with straight oil and roasted peppers say to refrigerate and use quickly.

I agree with Salsa Lady but for one point - "Botulism will happen". - The whole reason Dave65 asked the question, "I heard that putting fresh peppers in oil can produce Botulism? What's that about, nonsense?", is because for generations a family recipe has been passed down and Abuela has made it without issue. The issue is it can happen and the results are:

The paralysis caused by botulism can persist for 2 to 8 weeks, during which supportive care and ventilation may be necessary to keep the person alive. Botulism is fatal in 5% to 10% of people who are affected. However, if left untreated, botulism is fatal in 40% to 50% of cases.

So it can happen & the results are not what we want our dinner guests to experience!
 
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