Opinions on individuals selling seeds

I am curious as to what the opinions of you guys here are on an individual selling seeds. I know there are a few members here that are very outspoken and totally against an individual selling seeds. (By individual I mean somebody who is just a hobby grower and not a legal business)

I personally have sold seeds on this forum, I have also given away literally thousands of seeds as well. I am not looking to make a ton of money off of the seeds I sell but just maybe make enough to cover the cost of materials needed to keep and grow the peppers we all love.

I do not mind any individual selling seeds at all as long as the price is reasonably competitive and is not causing the legal businesses to lower their prices to an extent where they can't turn a profit and as long as the seller does not make false claims such as the seeds were isolated when they were not. The reasons I don't mind seeing individuals selling seeds are: If a legal business does not have seeds available for a variety I am wanting to grow. I can't find anybody willing to trade or do a SASBE for a variety I'm looking to grow. I don't want to wait around for a giveaway or contest of sorts that I may or may not win, or I don't want to wait until the summer when all the fresh pod auctions and sales start to flow and buy the pods and then dry the seeds myself because then it would be way too late to start the seeds this season (at least for my growing climate anyways)

For the members that are totally against individuals selling seeds, I am just curious as to why you feel that way. If you do not want somebody selling seeds, what's the difference in selling fresh pods? Both seeds and pods cost money and time to produce. If you want somebody to just give away seeds or pods, then why not just give away the whole plant? A bubble envelope with around 10 baggies of seeds sent 1st class mail cost me $2.07 to mail in the US. A 7 X 7 X 4 box with (1) 3.5" square pot and plant / seedling in it sent priority in the US cost me $7.68, so a difference of just at $5. I personally just do not see the difference in selling seeds and selling pods or starter plants. All of them take considerable time and money to produce, so why does it matter if I try to recoup some of that cost? I just see posts all the time on seed auctions and sells started by a non vendor saying "seeds should be given away" and I have absolutely never seen anybody saying that on a fresh pod or starter plant sell / auction.

I did not post this trying to get a rise out of anybody or to start a war / bashing session of any kind. I really hope this stays civil. I am just honestly curious as to what others here think about it. Anyways, thank you for reading.

Vincent Kelley
 
I've purchased seeds, powders, and sauces from members on this forum. I've also received more seeds than I can count for the cost of an envelope and postage, due to gracious and generous members.

Some of the best germination rates I've had have come from our own Spankyscolts, and I'll gladly purchase from him in the future. I think that this forum has a good mix of opportunities for free and purchased seeds, and I would much rather patronize a hobby grower (including the ones that do it on the side as a legit business) than give money to the big conglomerates like Burpee and faceless Amazon/eBay sellers.
 
If people are willing to purchase a product then so be it. That applies to seeds or anything else for that matter IMO. I am almost certain anyone here would rather purchase seeds from any member before resorting to eBay.

Yes, but I am not really talking about ebay. I am talking about vendors here on this site such as Pepperlover, Peppermania, and businesses such as that
 
Yes, but I am not really talking about ebay. I am talking about vendors here on this site such as Pepperlover, Peppermania, and businesses such as that
I know, just using the age old eBay example. To me any of us that invests their time in growing regardless of being a business or hobby grower has the rights to sell the fruits of their labor. Just because I specialize in powders won't keep me from selling fresh pods, dried whole pods, seeds or giving away items when asked.
 
Personally, I can't understand the objection to members charging for seeds in the slightest. If a member is asking an astronomical price then don't buy. If the member is new, has no reputation and you don't trust them then pass. Certain vendors such as Judy (Pepperlover) have a sterling reputation. You're paying a premium for the guarantee that you're getting what you pay for.

In my opinion, you've stated the most salient issue in your original post. It's clearly unethical to mislabel your seeds. Either advertising isolated seed stock when it's OP or worse yet, advertising a particular strain and sending something different. That's an egregious abuse of peoples' trust. As long as the seeds are correctly advertised as what they are then there's no difference between selling seeds and selling pods, powder, growing accessories, etc.
 
Here's a noobs two-cents worth:

Early last growing season, I had several chili starts die off due to damping (my first season for growing chilies from seed). The seeds weren't the problem, as most were from Native Seed Search, which is a very reputable non-profit firm. So, I went off to Tucson's largest nursery Mesquite Valley Growers, because I knew that they carried the largest selection of all sorts of plants, even though they purchase most of their plants from various large growers.

The Chiltepin plants I purchased did not produce Chiltepins, but Tepins (VERY different!). The Guajillo plants produced something closer to a New Mexican variety, but definitely not a Mirasol/Guajillo! I purchased three different Chile De Arbol plants, and the chiles on all three plants were very different from each other. Only the Ordono plants appeared to be true. My point is that I feel very disappointed, almost to the point of being screwed over by a supposedly "reputable" local nursery. By the way, the owner was very adamant that I use Seven Dust on all my plants, which I ignored!

I also talked to a nursery manager (Silverbell Nursery in Tucson) who ordered a few hundred Bhut Jolokia seeds from a well-known online seed seller, only to have every one of those plants produce Jalapenos! He's still pissed.

So why should I avoid buying seeds from a hobbyist versus an established business? I discovered the expensive way that you can't really trust all of the so-called established businesses. I've read through the Vendor Vault section here and find that there are too many questionable established seed vendors. Meanwhile, your typical chilihead hobbyist is someone who is a fanatic about chilies, and will most probably not intentionally screw someone over just to make a profit! In fact, my belief is that most of the reputable seed sellers (as found in the Vendor Vault) started selling seeds, pods, powders, sauces, etc. as an offshoot of their obsessive involvement in their chili hobby. That's what has happened to me, and why I will either sell a bunch of my starts to nurseries this year or work the Farmer's Market and Craigslist crowd.

So many established businesses in America and throughout the World started out in people's garages or basements. Isn't that what entrepreneurship is all about? So I believe that individuals should have the right to offer seeds or other items for sale to the public, as long as those items are not items that need to be regulated for safety reasons, such as certain food products.

Just my personal opinion.
 
Well....there's the "right" way and the wrong way. The cost of doing business the right way would cost most hobby growers more than they would make selling a few seeds/pods/plants. Large business's, I believe, shouldn't find it necessary to get mad at someone trying to sell a few seeds on a community forum. With the small amount of people on this site (in relation to the entire U.S. or world for that matter) I doubt there's enough money to make any one rich or support a business in the first place.

I'm all for making a little money back to fund the next season's grow, I don't think there should be any need to start up a business just to accomplish this. Now if you were trying to run a full size business on the sly...that's another story.

Business's, I believe, get mad at the little guy because they know that the person hasn't had to jump through all of the hoops and pay all of the out of pocket money to sell legally. They might think that person hasn't paid their dues so to speak, to earn the right to sell anything to anyone. This is just a natural reaction.

The problem with it (in my eyes) is that, if people can't afford to keep up their grow, then that person won't be a potential buyer anyway because they won't have any money to invest in the hobby they love.

So my stand on the matter is; if you are selling to recoup some money to reinvest in your operations, than that is perfectly acceptable. If you're taking it to the next level and trying to turn a profit above and beyond the needs of the garden/grow and you're not "paying your dues" that isn't right.

I'm in the same boat as you are Coheed. I'm trying to sell some powder to pay for this years grow and at the same time, trying to possibly turn it into something more. At the moment it is just to afford some of the things the garden needs dirt, nutes, containers, soil amendments (because my soil sucks) and the like.

I say do what you want and don't worry about the few that scoff at it. You know your moral integrity and you decide if you've crossed the line or not. The rest of what anyone else thinks is just background noise.
 
personnally i want to move from my normal day job to work on my land with product i grow, im currently an owner of a apple orchard and i dont make enough money to live just from that (and saty near my family and loved ones... so if i can grow plants, sell plants, sell seeds, sell peppers to will bring me closer to my goal of living of what i grow i dont mind selling even if some are "against" that. i have given and trade so much seed here that i try to help those in needs and help also other by buying from them. trading is great, bring a lot of friendship and variety whcih is good. since here around my place the hottest pepper is an habanero i would like to make poeple discover more and more about pepper product and gardening. so flame me if you want i will sell plants and seeds to reach my goal. Most of my clients would like to see me succed and want to be a part of my success, so that's it.

im not here to steal buisiness from those big seller. i just want to develop my business around my house and in farmers market and that would be great if i were the first to push it to the top with something that is very very unknown around here
also why not have some peppers and other veggies near my apples to help buyers to have some variety to bring home!
probably that no one goes crazy if you would be in a tomato forum and the guys would like to sell tomato seeds !!!

but from a business point of view selling, peppers, tomatoes apples and cucomber at the same place in the farmer'S market isd a good way to have more poeple at your booth


my 2 cents.

Just try to have great product, pure seeds and be kind and help others that's the way to make it
 
I don't see anything wrong with selling seeds and nowadays it is often a better deal to purchase several packs of seeds that you want from an individual than sending several SASBE's to several people to get the ones you want. Since most SASBE offers try to limit the varieties they offer to two or three types it is usually cheaper to purchase all of your seeds from a single vendor.

Figure to send a SASBE offer to get a couple varieties winds up costing you $2 for the bubble envelope and outer envelope to mail the bubble to its destination - another $4.14 for postage for the two way trip ( since bubble envelopes empty are already at the maximum thickness for letters most POs are now charging the parcel rate instead of envelope rates !) SO you're paying $6 for free seeds that you could probably buy for $4 shipped ! And if you wind up doing several SASBEs to get all the varieties that you want it can quickly cost substantially more than the $3 or $4 per variety that most vendors charge especially if you can get all of your needs from one source !!

Plus with a vendor you have more assurance that you will get what you wanted since most of them will at least take some steps to isolate the stock that they are going to use for seed sales rather that most SASBE offers which are normally open pollinated and even though you are paying the same amount for either if you wind up with the wrong thing you feel pretty bad getting upset with someone that offered the seeds for "Free with an SASBE" than you do about contacting a vendor to complain - even though the end result is still a wasted season !
 
IMO... for me rather than SASBE.. i would rather pay a member $2-$2.50 to have them package and mail..

SASBE... cost to send is 1-2 stamps....and then another 1-2 to send it back to you.. plus BE and time... comes close to $2.50..

also saves me the time of waiting for them to receive it.. ive sent a couple sasbe where they never got it.. so there goes a lil extra cost in getting those seeds....and if others are willing to pay.. IE sending it to INDONESIA or S.America,... then i charge them to have it shipped...

as 3/5 said it.. the amount of members who buy from reputable vendors are a small amount to what they get in the OUTSIDE world...they still make money...

and as is with be members.. or vendors .. you still get your NOTs here and there...

thanks VINCE.. for sending me PODs at the cost of shipping and i got to taste and also got seeds... thanks for the SFRB of FATALIIs as well..

THANKS to all...
 
My thoughts are if you receive something for free, then as a courtesy, it should be passed on. You keep saying you have given away thousands of seeds. In youre threads you never mentioned giving away seeds or sasb, just money. If you feel good selling items that somebody was nice enough to give you, then you and I see things from a different perspective.

It is not a big deal, people see things differently, if you believe in profiting from free items, carry on.
 
I'm trying to figure out the reason for the original post. What is your beef? Hobbyist's selling seeds cheaper than commercial sellers? What difference does it make to you who does and doesn't sell seeds? What point are you trying to make?
 
I'm trying to figure out the reason for the original post. What is your beef? Hobbyist's selling seeds cheaper than commercial sellers? What difference does it make to you who does and doesn't sell seeds? What point are you trying to make?
His point is that several people here run around threads bashing people for selling seeds when that is not their primary business or in cases where the person selling is not a business at all. If my understanding is wrong he will correct me.
 
Personally, I love buying seeds, and most of my seeds this year were purchased :) Also, I have been fortunate to have people here offer me free seeds too :)

A couple years ago, after the economy crashed, My income as a glassblower dwindled, My gal is a realtor and she has to work waaay harder to make a fraction of what she made before.

So we had to walk away from our house, and then rented a better one for half the monthly cost in the same area....
We started growing food crops to lower our food spending.

I discovered I love growing hot peppers!

This year we are trying out a tomato variety called Charlie's Mortgage Lifter.....Charlie developed the strain and sold enough seedlings to pay off his mortgage :)
I think this was in the 20's or 30's

Now, my fondest dream would be to grow enough uncommon varieties, to get enough isolated pepper pods, to get enough seeds to start enough seedlings, to sell those seedlings locally for a few years, and save all the money and buy another house/property, and call it the Hot Pepper Ranch.....LOL

So my humble opinion is buy, sell, trade, gift, or whatever you want to do....

Also, I would very much like to "Pay it Forward" with seeds later this year when I have grown them, since people here graciously offered and sent me some :)

Oh, I am by no means endorsing selling actual seeds that were received as a gift :)
 
My thoughts are if you receive something for free, then as a courtesy, it should be passed on. You keep saying you have given away thousands of seeds. In youre threads you never mentioned giving away seeds or sasb, just money. If you feel good selling items that somebody was nice enough to give you, then you and I see things from a different perspective.

It is not a big deal, people see things differently, if you believe in profiting from free items, carry on.

Yes I have given away seeds and pods away for free. And no I have not mentioned that I have given away seeds in a thread where I have seeds offered for sale. Why would I do that? Doesnt make much sense to say "here are seeds for for sale and oh I have given away thousands of seeds"

And I am not re-selling seeds that somebody has given to me. I asked a few days ago if anybody had some Jay's red or peach ghost scorps for trade, two members were nice enough to send me some for free (Joyners and Romy) Do you see me offering them for sale? No, that would be wrong.

Please please find an example of where I have asked for seeds, gotten them for free, and then sold them. If I have ever done that then it needs to be addressed but I don't believe you will find it.

If you are referring to my selling seeds that I got from pods that Silver Surfer let me come and get then let me tell you that they were by no means "given to me" I was at his garden for 7 hours picking peppers, crawling through the mud. Silver Surfer did not help me pick those pods. He was actually cutting his grass while I was there. So I did not profit from his help either. Also I brought him 2 cases of beer for letting me come down there. So you can't use that as an example.

But please armac, find somebody who I sold seeds to that I had gotten for free. Or better yet find somebody I have sold seeds to that was not happy with their purchase.

I'm trying to figure out the reason for the original post. What is your beef? Hobbyist's selling seeds cheaper than commercial sellers? What difference does it make to you who does and doesn't sell seeds? What point are you trying to make?

No patrick, I have no beef with anybody selling seeds. I was looking for opinions because there are a few members on here that have either commented on a thread I have started offering seeds for sale or that have PM'd me about offering seeds for sale even though I am not a "legal vendor". I was trying to see if the way those members felt was how the majority of people felt or not.

His point is that several people here run around threads bashing people for selling seeds when that is not their primary business or in cases where the person selling is not a business at all. If my understanding is wrong he will correct me.

Your understanding is correct joyners.
 
Yes I have given away seeds and pods away for free. And no I have not mentioned that I have given away seeds in a thread where I have seeds offered for sale. Why would I do that? Doesnt make much sense to say "here are seeds for for sale and oh I have given away thousands of seeds"

And I am not re-selling seeds that somebody has given to me. I asked a few days ago if anybody had some Jay's red or peach ghost scorps for trade, two members were nice enough to send me some for free (Joyners and Romy) Do you see me offering them for sale? No, that would be wrong.

Please please find an example of where I have asked for seeds, gotten them for free, and then sold them. If I have ever done that then it needs to be addressed but I don't believe you will find it.

If you are referring to my selling seeds that I got from pods that Silver Surfer let me come and get then let me tell you that they were by no means "given to me" I was at his garden for 7 hours picking peppers, crawling through the mud. Silver Surfer did not help me pick those pods. He was actually cutting his grass while I was there. So I did not profit from his help either. Also I brought him 2 cases of beer for letting me come down there. So you can't use that as an example.

But please armac, find somebody who I sold seeds to that I had gotten for free. Or better yet find somebody I have sold seeds to that was not happy with their purchase.



No patrick, I have no beef with anybody selling seeds. I was looking for opinions because there are a few members on here that have either commented on a thread I have started offering seeds for sale or that have PM'd me about offering seeds for sale even though I am not a "legal vendor". I was trying to see if the way those members felt was how the majority of people felt or not.



Your understanding is correct joyners.

Did you want Silver Surfer to pick them for you to resell? They were free. You sold the pods, and now the seeds, to me they are FREE items. But who cares right, profit is king.

Joyner if you were nice enough to send me seeds, for nothing in return, would you be upset if I turned around and resold them, under multiple threads?
 
Did you want Silver Surfer to pick them for you to resell? They were free.

Joyner if you were nice enough to send me seeds, for nothing in return, would you be upset if I turned around and resold them, under multiple threads?
Honestly, no. If the few hundred Jay's seeds I have given out or sold turn out true and amazing, you won't see me asking or caring about what the grower does with them. People have to live by their own choices and if they are fine with them and they do not directly harm me, I do not care.

I am not here to pick fights but only to share my love for heat with other pepper-heads.
 
Did you want Silver Surfer to pick them for you to resell? They were free.

Joyner if you were nice enough to send me seeds, for nothing in return, would you be upset if I turned around and resold them, under multiple threads?

No I did not want nor ask him to pick them for me to resell. If you would like, please PM Silver Surfer and ask him his first words to me when I got out of my car and met him. If memory serves me correctly his first words to me were "Are you ready to go pick money off of those plants?" He said it several times. I never asked to sell his pods or seeds from those pods because he told me he was fine with it right out of the gate.

Also he has said it on this very forum before that once the pods or seeds leave his hands he doesn't care what the receiver does with them. Please go ahead and PM him.
 
Thanks Joyner.

If I give seeds to someone they can do what they please with them. Once they leave my hands that's it, I'm done. Now if I see someone selling them and making big money I'll probably feel like an idiot for not doing it myself and I may be hesitant to give them for free to the same individual again. I would hope that person understands too.

Take the SB7J for example. It's turning out to be a pretty popular pepper. It's getting a lot of positive comments on appearance and flavor. If I had kept it to myself who knows what I would have been able to do with it. Does it bother me that I may have given up some money by not hording it? Not yet. I see somebody selling seeds for it and making money it may bother me.

I don't think anyone has a right to admonish the way anyone does business if it doesn't have a direct effect on them. One of the reasons I quit bashing the C. Reaper. What the heck business of mine is it if people buy the seeds? None of us here are charged with making sure the rest of us do things the way we like to see them done. Take care of your own business.
 
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