• If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.

organic organic vs in-organic?

Capsicum

Banned
"While we understand that the organic and conventional foods you buy at the store are grown differently, you might not realize that these same principles can apply to your own fruit, vegetable and flower gardening at home. There are a few key differences between organic and conventional gardening, mostly in their approaches to [color=blue !important][color=blue !important]pest [color=blue !important]control[/color][/color][/color], weed control, and fertilization. Outside those areas, the principal methods of growing food and flowers are identical.

A backyard gardener should not feel pressure to take an “all or nothing” approach to gardening techniques. Many people use a mix of organic and conventional methods to suit their time constraints, budget and priorities. Let’s cover some of the pros and cons of organic and conventional gardening techniques so that you can choose the methods that are right for you.

Organic Gardening
Organic gardening means growing and cultivating plants without any synthetic or chemical means of pest control, weeding, or fertilization; instead, organic gardeners use only natural methods (and old-fashioned manual labor) to care for their gardens.

Pros of Organic Gardening
  • Eco-Friendly: By definition, organic methods are all-natural so they shouldn't cause any harm to the earth, soil or waterways. Organic fertilizer in particular can actually improve the quality of your soil whereas conventional fertilizers just give an artificial and temporary burst of nutrients to your plants.
  • Better Nutrition: Although you'll see both sides argued, a growing number of studies are showing that organically grown foods are richer in nutrients than conventionally grown foods. A 2001 article published in the Journal of Complimentary Medicine found that, compared with conventional crops, organic crops had significantly higher levels of all 21 nutrients analyzed, including vitamin C (27% more), magnesium (29% more), iron (21% more) and phosphorous (14% more).
  • Monetary Savings: Organic gardeners don't use expensive store-bought fertilizers, pest controls or weed killers. Plus, growing your own organic food is a fraction of the cost of buying it at the store! To fertilize plants, organic gardeners use compost, which is free because it's made from things you already have in your yard (grass clippings and leaves) and kitchen (food scraps from fruits and vegetables). All-natural insecticidal soaps (less than $15 at a nursery) and traditional homemade brews of strong herbs can help ward off infestations. Another low-cost method of pest control is to plant specific flowers (for the cost of a pack of seeds) that encourage predators to "watch over" your garden by consuming bugs that might destroy it. For weed control, manual weeding combined with mulch, which can range from grass clippings (free) to stones (moderate cost) works well.
  • No Chemicals: When you spray conventional weed killers, those chemicals go into the very soil that your plants turn to for nourishment. When you spray pesticides, they can linger on the surface your fruits and vegetables and sometimes deeper. The easiest way to avoid pesticide exposure is to use organic gardening techniques and consume an organic diet. Several major health agencies, including the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), agree that an organic foods are safest for you, your children, your pets and the earth.
Cons of Organic Gardening
  • Time and Labor Intensive: Organic gardening methods are more time-consuming and labor intensive. A successful garden requires forethought and planning; maintaining that garden involves crop rotation, companion planting, diligent removal of diseased or weakened plants, [color=blue !important][color=blue !important]composting[/color][/color] (which takes weeks or months to break down), hauling manure, working organic matter into the soil, and manual weeding. For the time-crunched, these methods might not be possible, but for nature lovers, it becomes another opportunity to spend time outdoors.
  • Lower Yields: The theory of organic fertilizing is to naturally enrich the soil in which plants grow. [color=blue !important][color=blue !important]Compost[/color][/color] is a slow-release method of nutrition delivery, so organically grown plants usually have smaller yields than conventional ones. With less potent ways to control pesticides, some of your bounty will be eaten for dinner by the bugs, slugs and other critters around your home.
Conventional Gardening
Conventional gardening uses synthetic fertilizers and pesticides to enhance and control the growing environment.

Pros of Conventional Gardening
  • Less Time and Labor: Conventional gardening usually involves less time and labor, thanks to store-bought pesticides that instantly terminate invading pests and weeds, as well as fertilizers that boost the size and yield of your plants. If your crop is looking scrawny, a synthetic fertilizer can provide you with almost immediate results.
  • Monetary Cost: Conventional fertilizers and pesticides are more expensive than the free (and labor intensive) methods of organic gardening, but not terribly so. Fertilizers range from about $10-$15 a bag and pesticide sprays are usually around $10.
  • Higher Yields: You definitely get more bang for your buck when you grow plants with conventional methods. Conventional fertilizers are a powerhouse of food for your plants.
Cons of Conventional Gardening
  • Environmental Burden: When synthetic fertilizers are used, some of the chemicals are washed away by the rain and eventually that fertilizer makes its way into our lakes and rivers, causing extreme algae blooms that cut off oxygen to the organisms living in the water, thereby disrupting the natural ecosystem. Both pesticides and fertilizers can contaminate ground water; eventually, this water comes out of your tap and into your glass. Some experts say that conventional fertilizers can actually weaken plants over time, making them “lazy” as if they're trained to expect the powerful synthetic nutrients. The trickledown effect from pesticides can be direct (animals dying from high exposure to the chemicals) and indirect (animals consuming other animals that have died from exposure or consuming plants sprayed with the chemicals).
  • Health Risks: According to the EPA, pesticide exposure can lead to nerve damage, cancer, and birth defects. A 2003 study published in Occupational and Environmental Medicine found that women with [color=blue !important][color=blue !important]breast [color=blue !important]cancer[/color][/color][/color] were five to nine times more likely to have pesticide residues in their blood than those without the disease. Don't forget about your pets that can roam the yard and encounter plants (and grass) that may be contaminated with these chemicals. Exposure or consumption of plants sprayed with pesticides or fertilizer can result in vomiting, diarrhea, excessive drooling, disorientation, seizures, or even death, says the National Pesticide Information Center (NPIC).
  • Fewer Nutrients: Some studies (see above) support the notion that conventional foods aren't as nutritious as organically grown foods are. Children, cautions the EPA, are especially affected by pesticide exposure, which can result in reduced nutrient absorption.
You don't have to go 100% organic or 100% conventional in your own garden—use the methods that work best for you and your priorities. You might compost but spray for pests, or perhaps you will deter pests naturally but fertilize your plants with a store-bought mixture. There is no right or wrong way to garden. Whichever methods you choose, gardening is a wonderful pursuit that allows you to enjoy the great outdoors, connect with nature, and grow some of the freshest, best tasting fruits and vegetables you'll ever try."


In container growing-I think the biggest reason I don't grow 100% organic is because it is too labor intensive and plants cant tell the difference so there is no point...

For example, N is available as NO[sub]3[/sub]- or NH[sub]4[/sub]+. It does not make a difference to the plant whether if it came from worm castings or a bottled nutrient.


Key points:

"a synthetic fertilizer can provide you with almost immediate results."

"so organically grown plants usually have smaller yields than conventional ones."

" You definitely get more bang for your buck when you grow plants with conventional methods. Conventional fertilizers are a powerhouse of food for your plants."


Source: http://www.sparkpeop...les.asp?id=1295
 
Good info. But not 100% true. Organic doesn't mean just using compost or worm castings you make yourself. They are plenty of truly 100% organic/veganic nutrients and supplements available at stores. And honestly IMO, you don't get a smaller yield while gardening organic. But to each their own.
 
Good info. But not 100% true. Organic doesn't mean just using compost or worm castings you make yourself. They are plenty of truly 100% organic/veganic nutrients and supplements available at stores. And honestly IMO, you don't get a smaller yield while gardening organic. But to each their own.

The nutrition levels in store bought organic fertilizers are very low and they cost more then synthetic fertilizer...

" You definitely get more bang for your buck when you grow plants with conventional methods. Conventional fertilizers are a powerhouse of food for your plants"

"you don't get a smaller yield while gardening organic."

Do you know ONE of the reasons why synthetic grown crops are more susceptible to pest attacks then organic grown crops? Because the synthetically grown crop grows so fast the plant cell walls are thin from such speed of growth. Organic grows at a natural rate.
 
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]"Do you know ONE of the reasons why synthetic grown crops are more susceptible to pest attacks then organic grown crops? Because the synthetically grown crop grows so fast the plant cell walls are thin from such speed of growth. Organic grows at a natural rate."[/background]


[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]This is true, but has nothing to do with yield.[/background]
 
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]"Do you know ONE of the reasons why synthetic grown crops are more susceptible to pest attacks then organic grown crops? Because the synthetically grown crop grows so fast the plant cell walls are thin from such speed of growth. Organic grows at a natural rate."[/background]


[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]This is true, but has nothing to do with yield.[/background]

Good point. But if it grows quiker then yield should be higher. Synthetic grown crops get high levels of basic, soluble nutrients as organics get a different selection of minerals.
 
http://thehotpepper....age__hl__silica
May help combat those thin cell walls.




Yes I use "Pro-Tekt" from Dyna gro. It is potassium silicate.

I have been using synthetic fertilizer and I have never had too much of an aphid problem. It is true synthetic crops are more susceptible to pest attack due to thinner cell walls. Pottasium Silicate can be used to strengthen plant cell walls.

Try using soap and water. it wipes them out in one application. Use dish soap/water in a spray bottle.
 
Organic produce tastes better and is healthier.

Industrial farmed produce looks better.

There's your difference.

Most people who go to a shop equate good looking fruit with better quality. So farmers make pretty fruit and veg. Totally wrong... but hey, people are stupid.
 
Organic produce tastes better and is healthier.

Industrial farmed produce looks better.

There's your difference.

Most people who go to a shop equate good looking fruit with better quality. So farmers make pretty fruit and veg. Totally wrong... but hey, people are stupid.


"Article 5-5 Do Organics Really Taste Better?"

http://www.simplyhyd...aste_better.htm

For the record: I do things as organically as possible in ground. Synthetics are best used for container culture.
 
Growing organic this year and conventional in the past 3 I'd have to say I agree with everything but the yeild statement..

Though this is only one example, I've never seen a plant grow as big and put out anywhere near the amount of pods that Gurus organically grown Fatalii does, not to mention all the other plants he grows organically.

If I had to guess I'd say it put out easily 1000+ pods last year.. That's just stupid! lol.

Aside from that. Yeild has SO many other varibles in play, one could never pin point it on whether the plant was grown conventionally or organically.
IMO anyway.

Good read!

Brandon

Organic produce tastes better and is healthier.

Industrial farmed produce looks better.

There's your difference.

Most people who go to a shop equate good looking fruit with better quality. So farmers make pretty fruit and veg. Totally wrong... but hey, people are stupid.

I've been buying and selling produce for a living for 10 years now..

Organics taste better? Eh, sometimes. Sometimes we get stuff in that tastes like garbage compared to conventional.

Industrial produce looks better? Absolutely. Hands down.

When it comes to the basic facts about organics, most of the general public, THESE days, are actually aware of them.

Heres the REAL problem though.

Even though organics aren't as pretty, people that are aware of the basics WOULD buy them over conventional if.... Drumroll!.... They weren't on average 4X the price of conventional. That is and always will be the reason organics have yet to take off in popularity. They aren't even close to being competitive in price.

I'm currently selling non organic fuji apples for 50cents a lb, big, juicy, they taste good. Organic fujis, they're local, taste good!... $1.99 lb.. Organics from New Zealand? 6.99lb! If your a middle class citizen on a budget, what would you buy for your family or yourself? It's very unfortunate, but true. You could buy your kids 4 cheeseburgers for the price of one organic apple.. Fast food bad for your kids? Yes. But one apple isn't gonna fill their bellys. Again. Unfortunate. But True.

Organic produce also goes bad 5 times faster than non organic produce. At 4X the price of conventional, there's no way I can push the product fast enough before it goes bad. We lose money on every case of organic produce we buy. Another unfortunate true fact.

Kinda off topic but figured it might be a good read for some.

Brandon
 
Growing organic this year and conventional in the past 3 I'd have to say I agree with everything but the yeild statement..

Though this is only one example, I've never seen a plant grow as big and put out anywhere near the amount of pods that Gurus organically grown Fatalii does, not to mention all the other plants he grows organically.

If I had to guess I'd say it put out easily 1000+ pods last year.. That's just stupid! lol.

Aside from that. Yeild has SO many other varibles in play, one could never pin point it on whether the plant was grown conventionally or organically.
IMO anyway.

Good read!

Brandon



I've been buying and selling produce for a living for 10 years now..

Organics taste better? Eh, sometimes. Sometimes we get stuff in that tastes like garbage compared to conventional.

Industrial produce looks better? Absolutely. Hands down.

When it comes to the basic facts about organics, most of the general public, THESE days, are actually aware of them.

Heres the REAL problem though.

Even though organics aren't as pretty, people that are aware of the basics WOULD buy them over conventional if.... Drumroll!.... They weren't on average 4X the price of conventional. That is and always will be the reason organics have yet to take off in popularity. They aren't even close to being competitive in price.

I'm currently selling non organic fuji apples for 50cents a lb, big, juicy, they taste good. Organic fujis, they're local, taste good!... $1.99 lb.. Organics from New Zealand? 6.99lb! If your a middle class citizen on a budget, what would you buy for your family or yourself? It's very unfortunate, but true. You could buy your kids 4 cheeseburgers for the price of one organic apple.. Fast food bad for your kids? Yes. But one apple isn't gonna fill their bellys. Again. Unfortunate. But True.

Organic produce also goes bad 5 times faster than non organic produce. At 4X the price of conventional, there's no way I can push the product fast enough before it goes bad. We lose money on every case of organic produce we buy. Another unfortunate true fact.

Kinda off topic but figured it might be a good read for some.

Brandon

It is nice to hear from someone with experience (Like Brandon here) in the market.

Thanks Brandon.
 
Also remember that most all of the produce that comes from agriculture is genetically modified.
That's not a fair comparison. I think that modified crap is causing the rate of many sicknesses to increase.
Oh well, you have to die sometime.
 
A lot of people make their living off GMO and industrial farming, so there will be support for the status quo even with rock solid evidence that those new technologies are causing health and environmental damage.

I do wish organic food was cheaper, but again, a lot of people make their living off that too.
 
I use nothing but organic methods, and even though it means that I have to deal with more bug attacks I wouldn't turn to chemicals. A big part of the appeal to gardening for me is that I have total control over what we grow and eat, and if I used the same chemicals that are used on grocery store produce it would defeat a big part of the point of putting in all of this work. My garden is small, but easily produces enough for our family of four with loads of canned goods that we use in winter. Unless a person is growing to sell I personally can't understand why anyone would not go organic in their own personal garden space. Just my opinion.
 
We produce enough organic vegetables for 15-20 families on less than 1/2 acre and sell it cheaper than the non-organic vegetables in the supermarket. Organic pricing is about greed, not by the farmers necessarily, but by the authorities that "certify" farms. Big business farming has lobbied to make organic certification cost prohibitive to anyone growing on less than 20 acres. We may not be certified but I guarantee we use less pest/weed management than the "certified" farms. Within the next decade there won't be much difference at all between non-organic and organic produce in the stores other than the price.

*stepping off my soapbox now. sorry!
 
I use nothing but organic methods, and even though it means that I have to deal with more bug attacks I wouldn't turn to chemicals. A big part of the appeal to gardening for me is that I have total control over what we grow and eat, and if I used the same chemicals that are used on grocery store produce it would defeat a big part of the point of putting in all of this work. My garden is small, but easily produces enough for our family of four with loads of canned goods that we use in winter. Unless a person is growing to sell I personally can't understand why anyone would not go organic in their own personal garden space. Just my opinion.

I have less bug attacks without chemicals and using AACT. I have Mycorrhiszae on my roots and, and biofilm on my leaves. I am willing to wager that my plants look just as good or better than someone's with synthetics. I am not going for size as I only have a few hundred square feet for growing so I limit my size with 4.5 gal pots. But my plants llok very healthy and are putting out lots of bud, blossoms, and pods.

Put it this way, I'll take organics any day of the week over synthetics. Rather say why and start an argument ill just say I do. :P


I do think that conventional "organic" was not as productive as synthetics, but there are many discoveries now that are making organic the clear choice in my garden.
We are finding out that there are some major advantages in organics, but we just need to learn to harness them. Its not just compost and manure anymore.


The idea of synthetics is bringing the nutrients to the plants, the Method of organics does the same thing but in a different way. I am bringing the life to the soil and letting it feed the plant. They are similar in that it takes man to add some thing, but different in that organic has production boosting symbiotic relationships.
Mycorrhizae, for example, extends the reach of the roots basically adding to them. Biofilm does the same thing but also kills pests and fends off disease.

On a commercial size operation, Monsanto will not let this happen. It is possible, but Monsanto has its hands in the FDA and wont let AACT reach the farms. They say its not safe. The truth is it will beat out there monopoly that they have secured with Round-Up Ready, and BT crops.

http://www.rense.com/general33/fd.htm
http://www.organicco...ticle_20060.cfm
http://www.smart-pub...-best-interests
http://www.redicecre...s/monsanto.html
http://www.foodsafet...gineered-foods/
http://occupy-monsanto.com/tag/fda/

^^^Tip of the Iceberg^^^

Go watch Food Inc to get the Big picture.

(and now my sig starts to make sense)
 
Yeah, I can relate to the plants putting out loads of pods using organic methods. Last year my 5 cayenne plants were loaded, and my daughter and I picked 125 cayenne one day and another 80 two days later. And that does not count the scores of them in the days and weeks before and after the big harvest.

The bugs I've had a hard time with this year are cucumber beetles, which seem to be everywhere. Any suggestions based on experience for dealing with those? My plan is to companion plant garlic all over the place next year to keep them at bay, but that does not help me right now.
 
Yeah, I can relate to the plants putting out loads of pods using organic methods. Last year my 5 cayenne plants were loaded, and my daughter and I picked 125 cayenne one day and another 80 two days later. And that does not count the scores of them in the days and weeks before and after the big harvest.

The bugs I've had a hard time with this year are cucumber beetles, which seem to be everywhere. Any suggestions based on experience for dealing with those? My plan is to companion plant garlic all over the place next year to keep them at bay, but that does not help me right now.

Read in to AACT.

Not amed at you just putting this out for others:
There is a reason that plants survive bugs in nature, because they have an immune system, the thing is, its not built in, its based on symbotic relationsships with nature.

One may think, "But my immune system doesn't need nature." lol YES it does! your stomach is filled with microbes that break down your food and help fight off bad bugs ;)
You know what antibiotics are made of? penicillin?


(We have evolved to rely on the earth, just as it has evolved to rely on the Sun IMO)
 
Is Organic Overrated?


"The Bottom Line
While organic food can cost up to two or three times that of regular foods, it may not be any better for you, Mullins says.
“From a nutrition standpoint, there isn’t enough research to show that organic foods are more nutritious than regular foods. The levels of pesticides currently used haven’t been found to be harmful,” she says. “Of course, there may be other benefits to buying organic, such as it being more environmentally friendly and, in some cases, fresher.”
It really comes down to personal preference and budget, adds Mullins. Whatever you do, don’t let your choice inhibit your ability to get the nutrients you need. “The most important thing to consider is the health benefit of consuming five servings of fruits and vegetables every day—whether or not they’re organic,” says Mullins. “That’s the biggest payoff.” "

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090521200017.htm
 
Back
Top