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breeding Pepper crossing question

Hey all,

I wanted to get into pepper crossing this year. I kinda did last year but didn't emasculate the receiving flowers at all, so left it up to chance to see if they would pollinate by brushing the flower I wanted to use as my 'male' and then putting a very small seed ziplock plastic around it that also contained the male flower touching the pistol just in case my initial transfer didn't work. I do see somewhere between 25% to 50% of my crosses are much different looking so it was somewhat a success. I'll do the real steps (aka emasculating) for new crosses i want to make to get that up to 100% this year :). But anyway I had a question.

For the crossing guide on https://www.fatalii.net/growing_chile_peppers/breeding (chart below), they mention: "PF = F1 hybrids partially fertile", what does that mean?
The seeds of the cross I got last year that I am growing this year, aka my first year of the cross (aka F1), the seeds of those may or may not be fertile?
So if they grew out this spring and became plants this year, then Im good since that proves that particular F1 seed was Fertile? and every single plant of next year's generation will be viable/fertile and so on and so on (just have to stabilize the variation/genetics i want)?

or does that mean this years upcoming F1's seeds (which will become next years F2 plant) will only be partially fertile? So some of those seeds i collect this year may or may not actually grow next year?

Sorry if that was confusing, but hopefully someone can answer :).

NG = F1 hybrids germinate normally
EC = F1 hybrids raised by embryo culture
IV = fruits/seeds set, but F1 seeds inviable
PF = F1 hybrids partially fertile
HF = F1 hybrids highly fertile
 
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CaneDog

Extreme Member
or does that mean this years upcoming F1's seeds (which will become next years F2 plant) will only be partially fertile? So some of those seeds i collect this year may or may not actually grow next year?
NG is intended to mean the seeds resulting from crossing the P1 and P2 are likely to germinate normally into F1's. PF to mean that the resulting F1's are likely be only partially fertile as to being capable of producing F2's.

Good luck with your hybrids! And if you're trying for 100%, consider isolating your male flower too to prevent it from experiencing pollen contamination (typically by insect visit) prior to it's use as a pollen donor.
 
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NG is intended to mean the seeds resulting from crossing the P1 and P2 are likely to germinate normally into F1's. PF to mean that the resulting F1's are likely be only partially fertile as to being capable of producing F2's.

Good luck with your hybrids! And if you're trying for 100%, consider isolating your male flower too to prevent it from experiencing pollen contamination (typically by insect visit) prior to it's use as a pollen donor.
Hey @CaneDog... May have a followup question...
so if 'NG' means "Normal Germination" and 'HF' is "Highly Fertile"... I guess 'NG' is like 90-100% of the seeds will probably germinate normally.
and what is 'HF' considered, like 75-90% normal germination?
and 'PF' is pretend 0%-75%?
Just throwing out some percentages as I'm curious how someone determines each of those 3 categories.

How about the 'EC' category (F1 hybrids raised by embryo culture). Not sure what that would mean.

Thanks for any guidance,
Ari
 

CaneDog

Extreme Member
Hey @CaneDog... May have a followup question...
so if 'NG' means "Normal Germination" and 'HF' is "Highly Fertile"... I guess 'NG' is like 90-100% of the seeds will probably germinate normally.
and what is 'HF' considered, like 75-90% normal germination?
and 'PF' is pretend 0%-75%?
Just throwing out some percentages as I'm curious how someone determines each of those 3 categories.

How about the 'EC' category (F1 hybrids raised by embryo culture). Not sure what that would mean.

Thanks for any guidance,
Ari
As background, this table gets posted a lot on the internet. It's from an mid-1980's secondary source and, despite searching, I could never locate a copy of any primary source it referenced. I suspect it's not possible to get much more definite about applicable fertility percentages because, within any species certain varieties will cross better with certain varieties of another species than would others. It may be that HF and PF is more an indication of the percentage of pairings that resulted in fertility rather than the percentage of seeds from a given pairing that were fertile. This is something I'd hoped to understand better by reviewing the primary source data.

As far as F1 hybrids being raised by embryo culture, I suspect this is basically a way to bypass prezygotic and/or postzygotic barriers to interspecific embryo formation and development. I'm certainly no expert in this area. There are some good papers available on pre and post zygotic barriers. If this interests you, it's not hard to locate some with a google search.

I've enjoyed playing around with pepper crosses and hope you do as well. If you haven't already, check out ChilliCrosser's current thread. He's doing a lot of fun stuff right now with interspecific hybridization.
 
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Btw I have 2 'not-hot' pepper varieties (imagine Trinidad-Perfume/Aji Dulce/etc type peppers), both are yellow that I crossed last year and the 1 resulting F1 plant I got this year from them is also not-hot and yellow (although a different shape).
I wonder for next year's F2 generation, what are the chances of them also being not-hot and yellow color?
Both are features I'd like to maintain. I just want to see what crazy shapes I can get (the smaller the better).
I was wondering if any of these are known to be recessive traits that i can figure out via Mendel Charts how many of next years generation will have those features.
 

CaneDog

Extreme Member
You're basically dealing with recessives, but it might not be quite that straightforward. In the case of yellow color, shades of yellow could be determined by mutation at a single or multiple genetic loci.

This should help with the color part of your question - https://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-color-of-peppers-2.html.

This might be worth a look re pungency. https://plant-breeding-genomics.extension.org/pepper-heat/

Would be cool to see the peppers you're working with if you felt like posting a few pics.
 
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Cool, thanks for the info. I'll check it out

I'll post more pics in a couple weeks once they all become ripe and I'm more sure they crossed.
Here is my first pepper to ripen this year this week that Im sure crossed (as they dont have the shape of BY, kinda a more medium size. smaller than GS but slightly larger[and definitely thinner] than BY)... also has the same 'no-heat' flavor of both:
GrenadaSeasoning x BiquinhoYellow: Chinense x Chinense = HF

20220812_173541.jpg

I de-seeded it be4 the next pic to save the seeds:

20220812_173702.jpg


The other one that Im sure really crossed (like 5 out of 10 plants do not have the small circle shape of P.I.... and the rest i'll have to taste to see if they have no heat but in the regular PI shape):
GrenadaSeasoning x PĂ©rola Iaranja : Chinense x Chinense = (HF)
For these, I wanted to get a 'not hot' pepper into a super-extra-small shape/form-factor but PI is still hot so we'll see how these turn out.

I also tried a few others like that like:
GrenadaSeasoning x Aji Chaparita Iquitos: Chinense x (frutescens or Chinense???) = (PF or HF)
But I am skeptical these crossed (all these are in the small ACI shape right now... but that would be optimal if they have the small shape but less heat, won't know until i taste them in a week or 2).

There are more, but I'll have to check in a few weeks if they crossed.
 
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Some of the variegated colors in that article you sent are crazy cool. Im tempted to cross them into my current crosses next year hehe. Only unusual color i have available right now to cross with is 'Naga Smokey Rainbow' (but its not really variegated like those other ones at the bottom of the article).
 
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