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Pepper genetics question

Good morning and happy Thanksgiving to everyone!!! I don't know how many people will see this post with the holiday being today but I had a question about pepper genetics that I am trying to comprehend. Most peppers now are crosses or hybrids now correct? But from what I hear most any cross is hotter than either of the parents, is this considered "hybrid vigor" where it will take the more dominant or better qualities from each parent causing it to be hotter? And working on the theory that a generous percentage of these hybrids will be hotter, once stabilized, if crossed again (provided it was the correct strain), wouldn't their offspring hybrids do the same thing as their parents and take the desirable quality from the new parents and make it even hotter? Just a piece of the question I have but I need to understand it to ask the next part of the question. Thanks to any help, it would be appreciated.This is hypothetical so I mean to leave out minor variables such as soil, how it was grown...ect. Ect.
 
Austin said:
... But from what I hear most any cross is hotter than either of the parents...
I doubt. I have the proof in my garden. The heat can also go down.
For other questions, can't help you, don't know so much things about crossings, just put this on my "agenda".
 
My reason for this was the understanding that the bhutlah is supposed to be ungodly hot, much hotter that a bhut or a Douglah. I was incorrect in saying most any, but instead how select crosses such as this. This is hypothetical so I am looking at you crossing the correct two strains of peppers that result in a pepper that is hotter than their parent plants. and I say this with ignorance because I have never had a bhutlah, but those who have seem to think it is hotter.
 
Lets say you crossed a bhut to a Douglah and got a plat that tested 1.7m only way to know what the off spring F2,, etc,, will be like is to test them so you grow 10 out, you have them tested and you find one 1.75  was it genetics or did you grow that plant better?? Most likely both but the only way to know is have all plants lab tested to be sure. So $50 a test at lest ten test per year so that be $4,000 at lest just on testing to find out to get it to F8 TBH 
 
Is it Possible to have F2 hotter then F1 yes is it Possible to have an F8 hotter then F1 yes. It just wont be cheap to know if you had the pods tested. 
 
This isn't exactly my field but I will take a stab.
It is hybrid vigor but is easily lost over subsequent generations. You could continually cross but would encounter greater genetic deformity unless you knew the outcome could produce what is called a "stable f1" much the same as broiler chickens. Broiler chickens are a cross of four breeds, two pairs are crossed and the f1 are then crossed to produce a predictable super hybrid vigour chicken. Such a crossing could be done with peppers but the initial f1 would have to predictably inherit a dominant heat. The subaequent final cross could produce something far greater that any of the parents. The closest to gaurenteed heat dominance I know of is a chinense over an annuum but the resulting seed can be difficult germinate. The final "stable f1" would be such a mishmash of recessive genes you might as well commit suicide now before wasting the years trying to stabilise it and failing. Still, it could be cloned and has the potential to break world records but such a project would take a decent mapping of dominance and many trial crosses.
Here is a pdf on chinense heat dominance I have laying around. http://a.pomf.se/icfutz.pdf
Ultimately I don't think the annuum can produce that much heat so it might all be for naught but there really isn't much research I have found into maximum potential heat of peppers. For all I know it's limitless and the next superhot could be an annuum. Wouldn't that be funny. :D
This is where someone steps in here and corrects my nonsense.
 
Thank you Mr. Hill, I said all that to say this, people are constantly trying to make peppers hotter and hotter. And the time it has taken us to go from the ghost pepper being the hottest to the Carolina Reaper has been years, and the scovile's between those two aren't but around 600,000 scovile's. It's a slow pace but we are making progress with raising the heat. Does that mean in 20 years we will have a pepper 3-4 million scovile's? Do we believe that is genetically possible?
 
Austin said:
Thank you Mr. Hill, I said all that to say this, people are constantly trying to make peppers hotter and hotter. And the time it has taken us to go from the ghost pepper being the hottest to the Carolina Reaper has been years, and the scovile's between those two aren't but around 600,000 scovile's. It's a slow pace but we are making progress with raising the heat. Does that mean in 20 years we will have a pepper 3-4 million scovile's? Do we believe that is genetically possible?
It might be possible, but like most things there will be a average Max, and from whats been tested so far that Max is about 2,2 mil. for a pod and I don't see why with years of breeding a 3. mil can be grown maybe even a 4. mil but not likely any time soon and I just hope Monsanto doesn't make a GMO to get it.  
 
There are some limits to what we can do. For example, the metabolic 'workload' that a plant must exert to produce larger amounts of capsaicinoids is going to be a drain on its overall daily metabolic budget -- and that budget is defined by the amount of photosynthesis the plant can perform.
Even if enough genes in the genome that allow for increased capsaicinoid-content were to occur in a strain that produced fruits consistently topping 3,000,000 SHUs, i think that crop yields are going to be minimal... or it will take a full year to bloom or set fruit... or it will lack vigor... be disease/pest prone...
...there's always a cost in metabolic energy. We can improve capsaicinoid levels for medicinal reasons, or to break another breeder's record. It's going to take a lot more work to develop a strain of superhot as compact as a white hab and/or as cool-tolerant as an annuum so i can grow some here.
There can be improvements. Some of them are well worth it. But there are other goals for plant breeders, and the law of diminshing returns applies to each goal.
... of course, show me a headline like "Newest Guiness' World Record Hottest Pepper" and i'll read it as eagerly as anybody else here.
 
So we believe at this point in time we will never have a 16,000,000 scovile pepper. Due to it taking so much effort by the plant to produce a pod? Unless there are massive changes in how we grow plants haha.
 
I read an interview with Ed curie and he says he has more pods at home that he has bred out hotter than the reaper. He has one up to 2.8 mill I think.

Said he was waiting on someone to release the next hottest so he can trump it.
 
You know you got to love someone like that haha, if he already has it up to 2.8 million it would be a huge jump, I'd like to know how close that would be to the chocolate bhutlah from standbyandfire. I can't wait to see how much some of these new strains test at on the scovile scale!!
 
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