Building a LED light sounds like a fun project, and I'm curious to use LED in a grow, but have no experience with the technology to work off of. Does anyone know a good tutorial I can read? All my searches give me tutorials about popping holes in a rubbermaid lid and using blue LED X-mas lights.
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Questions abOut DIY LED
- Thread starter scratchzilla
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I'm in the same boat. This is what I've learned so far, which may or may not be accurate:
- Don't bother with 5mm 'blinker'/christmas light LEDs. It becomes physically challenging to pack them and wire them densely enough to reach the proper levels of light output. What you want are typically called 'high power' LED lights, technically termed 'emitters' of 1 watt output or more (3 watt is very common in this application)
- Photosynthesis has two main spectra of sensitivity, in the 450nm range (blue) and in the 660nm range (red), with a greater use of light in the red spectrum.
- Some plants respond well to light in the low 600nm range (orange) for flowering.
- There are several other spectra that are useful for certain plants, some in the ultraviolet and infrared range. Determine which plants you intend to grow with the lights and do a little bit of research. Or just go with the blue / red combo and get the rest with some wide spectrum white light from fluorescent/HPS/etc bulbs.
- LED lights put out a very narrow spectrum of light, very similar to a laser. There are some in the the 'sweet spot' for photosynthesis. You will hear LEDs with 455nm output called 'royal blue' (not just blue), and some with 445nm output as 'extreme' or 'deep' royal blue. I haven't figured out the different nomenclature for the reds yet, but high power emitters are available both in the 630 and 660nm ranges.
- Most grow lights are going to be built from an aggregation of LED emitters. Pick the spectrum and ratios that are best for your plants. For example, maybe 20% royal blue, 70% red and 10% orange.
- High power LEDs are all (as far as I can tell) 'surface mount' technology. Surface mount is a bit of a pain to deal with for the DIYer, so you'll see many of them shipped on a star board. The star board provides nice wide pads for soldering, slots for screw mounting and provide a nice wide surface for heat transfer. Unless you know what you're doing with SMT, I would only consider buying ones factory mounted on star boards.
- High power LEDs will light with a simple battery, but to get the highest output, greatest efficiency and longest life, you want to power them with a circuit specifically designed to power LEDs. These circuits are called 'drivers' and provide the proper voltage, and more importantly, constant current that the LEDs desire. Many of them are designed to power multiple LEDs (it will typically say on the product) in a series circuit configuration (each LED's + terminal is wired to the next's -, with the two on the end running to the driver).
- Heat transfer is a very big consideration when you get any number of high power LEDs operating. A very small number of them (say less than 10) might be fine with passive cooling on a heat sink...but anything more than that and you are going to need to add a fan. Managing heat is one of the best ways to extend the life of the LED.
- There are several well known and highly regarded vendors for LED products...Cree and Phillips are two that come to mind. You can also find many white label manufacturers that will sell modules of varying quality.
- In addition to the emitter, you are going to want some optics to focus all that light into a useful direction. Some clip to the module and some sit in holders. No matter what you do, make sure that they will physically fit with the emitter and board you plan to use. 60 degree optics seem like a good option for this application
- High intensity LEDs do have the potential to damage your eyes if you are reckless. Don't let kids put them right up to their face, etc. (Probably common sense, but doesn't hurt to mention) There are glasses designed to filter out specific wavelengths (typically sold with class IV lasers) if you plan to go big. Keep in mind that this light is not collimated so all of the 'instant permanent retinal damage' stories are for class IV lasers that will put 2W of light into a pinhole sized spot onto your retina.
- You're dealing with electricity, diy wiring, and humidity/water. Make sure all of your connections are well protected and you have a good ground. I would consider a GFCI outlet or powerstrip mandatory.
- Most of the real innovation and insane setups with grow lights are going to be found in cannabis-related forums and sites. If you are concerned about visiting such sites from your home, go to a public wi-fi spot or use tor. (Tor Browser Bundle is exceedingly simple to use)
Sorry that was so long, just stream of conciousness. There is probably more, but that's what comes to mind at the moment.
- Don't bother with 5mm 'blinker'/christmas light LEDs. It becomes physically challenging to pack them and wire them densely enough to reach the proper levels of light output. What you want are typically called 'high power' LED lights, technically termed 'emitters' of 1 watt output or more (3 watt is very common in this application)
- Photosynthesis has two main spectra of sensitivity, in the 450nm range (blue) and in the 660nm range (red), with a greater use of light in the red spectrum.
- Some plants respond well to light in the low 600nm range (orange) for flowering.
- There are several other spectra that are useful for certain plants, some in the ultraviolet and infrared range. Determine which plants you intend to grow with the lights and do a little bit of research. Or just go with the blue / red combo and get the rest with some wide spectrum white light from fluorescent/HPS/etc bulbs.
- LED lights put out a very narrow spectrum of light, very similar to a laser. There are some in the the 'sweet spot' for photosynthesis. You will hear LEDs with 455nm output called 'royal blue' (not just blue), and some with 445nm output as 'extreme' or 'deep' royal blue. I haven't figured out the different nomenclature for the reds yet, but high power emitters are available both in the 630 and 660nm ranges.
- Most grow lights are going to be built from an aggregation of LED emitters. Pick the spectrum and ratios that are best for your plants. For example, maybe 20% royal blue, 70% red and 10% orange.
- High power LEDs are all (as far as I can tell) 'surface mount' technology. Surface mount is a bit of a pain to deal with for the DIYer, so you'll see many of them shipped on a star board. The star board provides nice wide pads for soldering, slots for screw mounting and provide a nice wide surface for heat transfer. Unless you know what you're doing with SMT, I would only consider buying ones factory mounted on star boards.
- High power LEDs will light with a simple battery, but to get the highest output, greatest efficiency and longest life, you want to power them with a circuit specifically designed to power LEDs. These circuits are called 'drivers' and provide the proper voltage, and more importantly, constant current that the LEDs desire. Many of them are designed to power multiple LEDs (it will typically say on the product) in a series circuit configuration (each LED's + terminal is wired to the next's -, with the two on the end running to the driver).
- Heat transfer is a very big consideration when you get any number of high power LEDs operating. A very small number of them (say less than 10) might be fine with passive cooling on a heat sink...but anything more than that and you are going to need to add a fan. Managing heat is one of the best ways to extend the life of the LED.
- There are several well known and highly regarded vendors for LED products...Cree and Phillips are two that come to mind. You can also find many white label manufacturers that will sell modules of varying quality.
- In addition to the emitter, you are going to want some optics to focus all that light into a useful direction. Some clip to the module and some sit in holders. No matter what you do, make sure that they will physically fit with the emitter and board you plan to use. 60 degree optics seem like a good option for this application
- High intensity LEDs do have the potential to damage your eyes if you are reckless. Don't let kids put them right up to their face, etc. (Probably common sense, but doesn't hurt to mention) There are glasses designed to filter out specific wavelengths (typically sold with class IV lasers) if you plan to go big. Keep in mind that this light is not collimated so all of the 'instant permanent retinal damage' stories are for class IV lasers that will put 2W of light into a pinhole sized spot onto your retina.
- You're dealing with electricity, diy wiring, and humidity/water. Make sure all of your connections are well protected and you have a good ground. I would consider a GFCI outlet or powerstrip mandatory.
- Most of the real innovation and insane setups with grow lights are going to be found in cannabis-related forums and sites. If you are concerned about visiting such sites from your home, go to a public wi-fi spot or use tor. (Tor Browser Bundle is exceedingly simple to use)
Sorry that was so long, just stream of conciousness. There is probably more, but that's what comes to mind at the moment.
Some links to things you'll want to know about.
http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
lick on basics etc. above.
http://www.dannyg.co...s2/resistor.htm
http://www.ledgrowli...wavelengths.php
http://led.linear1.org/lumen.wiz
http://unclean.org/h...ed_circuit.html
http://www.ngineerin...calculators.htm
http://www.rason.org...y/powsupply.htm
http://www.instructa...gh-Power-LED-s/
http://www.instructa...wer-LED-driver/
https://www.google.c...iw=1024&bih=600
http://projects.dime...net/archives/66
http://forum.allabou...ead.php?t=57873
There is all kinds of stuff out there to help you build a LED panel.
7in X 12in Perf Boards
1/8th inch thick Aluminum sheet to put stars on.Heat sink.
16in X 16in.
Leds - 1Watt Stars and 10mm(1/2 watt and 1watt).About 2000 of each in from 430nm - 475nm Blue and 620nm. - 675nm red,yellow in 580nm
8in X 16in panel with red LEDS mounted.
12 star panels ready to wire then add Blue LEDs
7in. x 12in. 10mm panel,lights are on in the room.
Stars on a mite infested Red Savina
5mm LEDS for small stuff.
http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
lick on basics etc. above.
http://www.dannyg.co...s2/resistor.htm
http://www.ledgrowli...wavelengths.php
http://led.linear1.org/lumen.wiz
http://unclean.org/h...ed_circuit.html
http://www.ngineerin...calculators.htm
http://www.rason.org...y/powsupply.htm
http://www.instructa...gh-Power-LED-s/
http://www.instructa...wer-LED-driver/
https://www.google.c...iw=1024&bih=600
http://projects.dime...net/archives/66
http://forum.allabou...ead.php?t=57873
There is all kinds of stuff out there to help you build a LED panel.
7in X 12in Perf Boards
1/8th inch thick Aluminum sheet to put stars on.Heat sink.
16in X 16in.
Leds - 1Watt Stars and 10mm(1/2 watt and 1watt).About 2000 of each in from 430nm - 475nm Blue and 620nm. - 675nm red,yellow in 580nm
8in X 16in panel with red LEDS mounted.
12 star panels ready to wire then add Blue LEDs
7in. x 12in. 10mm panel,lights are on in the room.
Stars on a mite infested Red Savina
5mm LEDS for small stuff.
Thanks for the info guys, huge push in the right direction!
One thing I've been finding out is a LOT of the data sheets for 10mm and 1 watt blue LEDS isn't right.
When I do the math I would be eventually letting the smoke out of the LEDS if you run them at the ma. and voltages they say are what the leds are rated at.
Example data sheet says:
1 watt , Blue LED
350ma
3v , 3.3v , 3.6v
3X.35= 1.05watt
3.3X.35=1.15watt
3.6X.35=1.26watt
All voltages will fry a 1 watt LEDS eventually.
I see the data for over 1 watt LEDS to be possibly more factual,at least on papper...
LED data of interest:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/313621/HB/E12EB7C.html
You'll notice that there is different bins with the LEDS sorted into 5nm groups.
The problem with much of what is published about LEDS comes from the same place you get fertilizer.
I start the .3 and .35ma Leds at .2 or .25ma.
Check brightness , heat etc. and take current and voltage readings of several strings of LEDs and resistors to see any differences in either the LEDS or resistors so I know if some are way off.
I'd rather do this before I assemble a whole panel than have one take out a whole string if it shorts rather than breaks the strings power supply.
A shorted LED causes the others to get way more than they can handle and the magic smoke will be let out of at least one more in the string.
I prefere 1 watt LEDs because they don't get very hot and I can put them close together in several wave lengths to overlap each other on my panels.
So far just mounting them to 1/8th in. thick Aluminium cools them just fine.No fans...
I think the lumen output is about the same as using fewer 3watt LEDs.
1 watt LEDS are cheeper,cooler and work the way I use them.Your milage may vary...
Some of mine have run 365/7 days/18hrs a day for going on 3 years.
If higher watt LEDS get to be putting out more Lumens than they do now,run cooler and drop in price I might think about using them over 1watt LEDS in the future.
Thing is,the 1Watt ones seem to make my plants happy now.
Why fix what isn't broke?
When I do the math I would be eventually letting the smoke out of the LEDS if you run them at the ma. and voltages they say are what the leds are rated at.
Example data sheet says:
1 watt , Blue LED
350ma
3v , 3.3v , 3.6v
3X.35= 1.05watt
3.3X.35=1.15watt
3.6X.35=1.26watt
All voltages will fry a 1 watt LEDS eventually.
I see the data for over 1 watt LEDS to be possibly more factual,at least on papper...
LED data of interest:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/313621/HB/E12EB7C.html
You'll notice that there is different bins with the LEDS sorted into 5nm groups.
The problem with much of what is published about LEDS comes from the same place you get fertilizer.
I start the .3 and .35ma Leds at .2 or .25ma.
Check brightness , heat etc. and take current and voltage readings of several strings of LEDs and resistors to see any differences in either the LEDS or resistors so I know if some are way off.
I'd rather do this before I assemble a whole panel than have one take out a whole string if it shorts rather than breaks the strings power supply.
A shorted LED causes the others to get way more than they can handle and the magic smoke will be let out of at least one more in the string.
I prefere 1 watt LEDs because they don't get very hot and I can put them close together in several wave lengths to overlap each other on my panels.
So far just mounting them to 1/8th in. thick Aluminium cools them just fine.No fans...
I think the lumen output is about the same as using fewer 3watt LEDs.
1 watt LEDS are cheeper,cooler and work the way I use them.Your milage may vary...
Some of mine have run 365/7 days/18hrs a day for going on 3 years.
If higher watt LEDS get to be putting out more Lumens than they do now,run cooler and drop in price I might think about using them over 1watt LEDS in the future.
Thing is,the 1Watt ones seem to make my plants happy now.
Why fix what isn't broke?
First light! This is super redneck after seeing Guillo1s, smokemasters and kev82s setups, but I figured I'd share anyway.
I have an issue with delaying gratification, so I just scabbed a few stars together using some wire I had within arms reach (12 gauge solid strand, way too stiff for real use as it rips off pads if you flex the string). Tried an indoor shot:
Nope. Out on the front porch in the morning sun.
Even just looking around them you get green and yellow traces in your eyesight, lol. The heat output is less than i had imagined, but i'm just running a couple here. With dozens (or hundreds) of them you'll need to do something to manage it.
Thanks for the tip on thermal adhesive, kev82, I didn't even know it existed! Perfect solution for these things. Now to get my channel and some proper wire.
These are the parts I'd ordered from satisled on ebay (for smaller batches it seems to be more economical this way). Shipping from HK took about 12 days and the package tracker was completely useless. Still showed 'left shipping facility' two days after the parts arrived.
20x 60 Degree LED Lens for 1/3/5W LED Black Holder 23DT
10pcs 3W High Power Red LED for Plant Grow Light 660nm
5pcs 3W Extreme Royal Blue Power LED 445nm Plant Grow
Constant Current Driver for 12pcs 3W High Power LED 7-12x...
I have an issue with delaying gratification, so I just scabbed a few stars together using some wire I had within arms reach (12 gauge solid strand, way too stiff for real use as it rips off pads if you flex the string). Tried an indoor shot:
Nope. Out on the front porch in the morning sun.
Even just looking around them you get green and yellow traces in your eyesight, lol. The heat output is less than i had imagined, but i'm just running a couple here. With dozens (or hundreds) of them you'll need to do something to manage it.
Thanks for the tip on thermal adhesive, kev82, I didn't even know it existed! Perfect solution for these things. Now to get my channel and some proper wire.
These are the parts I'd ordered from satisled on ebay (for smaller batches it seems to be more economical this way). Shipping from HK took about 12 days and the package tracker was completely useless. Still showed 'left shipping facility' two days after the parts arrived.
(110730453985)
10pcs 3W High Power Red LED for Plant Grow Light 660nm(110834112895)
5pcs 3W Extreme Royal Blue Power LED 445nm Plant Grow(110734536214)
Constant Current Driver for 12pcs 3W High Power LED 7-12x...(110800720860)
OOPS,I had another window open for other drivers and was looking at a 12 volt driver not the one you have.
That string is between 27 and 32volts.
You could run more LEDs on it 45 volts max.
That string is between 27 and 32volts.
You could run more LEDs on it 45 volts max.
Thanks for the info anyway (saw the post previous and took some notes)! I'm going to tear this string down and re-do properly on aluminum channel and mount lenses. I like the idea of using a PC power supply and LN317's or similar to do the current regulation. This little thing from satisled is just super convenient for tinkering.
Thanks again!
Figuring LM317's for resistance.
1.25 divided by MA =Resistor value you'll need.
for your .7 ma LEDS you'll need a 1.7ohm resistor.Go up to the nearest value in OHMs
https://www.google.com/search?q=lm317+datasheet&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=blOCT4jGNsrtrQeZp8yCBg&ved=0CFsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=600
http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=LM317
I've been told that Computer power supplies have a good enough output as far as a constant output that you can probably just use a resistor by itself.
I don't buy new power supplies,too expensive.
Here is a place close to where I live,you probably can find a place similar near you.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/480/Power-Supplies/1.html
I use the 12 volt , 12 amp. supply and am playing with the 24v , 2.6amp one.
The 12v , 12amp. one runs about 150 of the 1 watt stars and about the same for the 10mm LEDs in 1 watt.(Depending on string size etc.)
Both I run at or below .35ma
A 100v , 300ma driver will barely run 50 for about the same cost.Plus I'm not jazzed about having a whole panel in one string.
Something goes wrong you fry a lot of LEDS.They don't always break the circuit when they go out.If they short all the other LEDS fry too until the circuit breaks.
10mm LEDS tend to short for me when they fry causing the rest of the LEDS in the string to cook.
I think in the page for LM317's there is a circuit for putting a transistor in there somewhere so that if an LED fries it shuts down that string so no other ones get fried.
I don't know enough about electronics to know the specifics...
I only know a little about LEDS to be dangerous.
1.25 divided by MA =Resistor value you'll need.
for your .7 ma LEDS you'll need a 1.7ohm resistor.Go up to the nearest value in OHMs
https://www.google.com/search?q=lm317+datasheet&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=blOCT4jGNsrtrQeZp8yCBg&ved=0CFsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=600
http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=LM317
I've been told that Computer power supplies have a good enough output as far as a constant output that you can probably just use a resistor by itself.
I don't buy new power supplies,too expensive.
Here is a place close to where I live,you probably can find a place similar near you.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/480/Power-Supplies/1.html
I use the 12 volt , 12 amp. supply and am playing with the 24v , 2.6amp one.
The 12v , 12amp. one runs about 150 of the 1 watt stars and about the same for the 10mm LEDs in 1 watt.(Depending on string size etc.)
Both I run at or below .35ma
A 100v , 300ma driver will barely run 50 for about the same cost.Plus I'm not jazzed about having a whole panel in one string.
Something goes wrong you fry a lot of LEDS.They don't always break the circuit when they go out.If they short all the other LEDS fry too until the circuit breaks.
10mm LEDS tend to short for me when they fry causing the rest of the LEDS in the string to cook.
I think in the page for LM317's there is a circuit for putting a transistor in there somewhere so that if an LED fries it shuts down that string so no other ones get fried.
I don't know enough about electronics to know the specifics...
I only know a little about LEDS to be dangerous.