chinense Scotch Bonnet - A confused pepper.

AJ Drew

AJ Drew

Has anyone else noticed what seems like some huge confusion when it comes to Scotch Bonnet?  When I think of the pepper, I imagine the thing shaped like the traditional Scottish hat.  You know, the thing bag pipe players where when they are in their kilts n traditional garb.  But lots of things that look like the common habanero are labeled Scotch Bonnets despite looking nothing like that hat.

Here is an example where they even describe the bonnet shape, but show a picture of what I think looks like a common habanero.

http://sustainableseedco.com/heirloom-vegetable-seeds/pe-t/pepper-heirloom-seeds/hot-peppers/orange-scotchbonnet-pepper-seeds.html
 
Anyone have a clue?  Has the term become more generic over time?
 
I was wondering about that because my plant looks like a regular Hab but My Jamaican Yellow Hab looks like a Traditional Scotch Bonnet Hat.
 
30194662625_d8d744030b_b.jpg
 
AJ Drew said:
Has anyone else noticed what seems like some huge confusion when it comes to Scotch Bonnet?  When I think of the pepper, I imagine the thing shaped like the traditional Scottish hat.  You know, the thing bag pipe players where when they are in their kilts n traditional garb.  But lots of things that look like the common habanero are labeled Scotch Bonnets despite looking nothing like that hat.

Here is an example where they even describe the bonnet shape, but show a picture of what I think looks like a common habanero.

http://sustainableseedco.com/heirloom-vegetable-seeds/pe-t/pepper-heirloom-seeds/hot-peppers/orange-scotchbonnet-pepper-seeds.html
 
Anyone have a clue?  Has the term become more generic over time?
Click to expand...
 
My first scotch bonnets were purchased at a nursery and looked just like that. 
 
I've been noticing this a lot. I have to ask stallholders what their chillies are all the time because Bonnets look more and more like Habs these days and Habs look more and more like Bonnets. Unless you buy a specific breed from a dedicated grower, you can't look at these chillies and tell them apart anymore.
 
I think that's why the Jamaican Ministry of Agriculture (MOA) put together the program to have "true" scotch bonnet shapes.

By the way my scotch bonnet seeds came from PepperJoe and look exactly like the ones in the picture. They don't have much flavor but the walls are a little thicker than a regular store bought orange hab.

Also, that website posted the heat for the pepper at 3000 SHU, so not sure how reliable of a seed source they would be (even if they are organic as advertised).
 
You'll notice that a lot of folks will have plants where half (or more) of the pods are off-shape.  This seems to be very common with the "MOA" strain.  To me, the name of the variety came from the shape, but the real defining characteristic is the flavor.  You know it's a Bonnet when you taste it.  in most cases, you'll know it's a Bonnet when you cut it open-- the scent is quite recognizable.  Habs and Bonnets are definitely similar, but the taste is distinct.
 
Some related thoughts.notes i've read recently:
-On the thread that the_northeast_chileman linked above, some folks were saying that a lot of ppl in Europe use the terms "Habanero" and "Scotch Bonnet" interchangeably, which could certainly add to the confusion.
 
-I read somewhere on THP that the "waistline" that creates the distinctive Bonnet shape doesn't develop as reliably in cooler climates.  I can't say for sure whether or not that's true-- I've got no experience with it-- but i thought it was an interesting concept.  Maybe a lot of these saggy bonnets came from temperate growers?
 
Totally agree with you Bicycle808 when you say "you know when it's a bonnet when you taste it" and shape is desired but not always managed. Most will agree that those growing the P. Dreadie Select this season the percentage has been low in producing a good true shape across their plants if I was honest maybe 5% were worthy of being a select. I can never compete with those growing bonnets in the States with heat and humidity and it's true maybe that shape is affected by cooler climates however, with poly tunnels and greenhouses we are trying to stretch our seasons

Commercially industry needs to be better educated ... in the past ten years growing chillies has really taken off and with that more people are knowledgable and know their varieties ... my local supermarket continues to sell yellow and orange Habs as Bonnets .. I know the difference but all those others that don't are continually fooled each week as they pop their little bags of hot delight in their trolley ... I have even seen a bit of a get out clause on the packaging ... Carribean selection

The next question is ...... should we stop creating hybrids and go back to the bonnets true roots in respect of shape and size
 
Trident chilli said:
Totally agree with you Bicycle808 when you say "you know when it's a bonnet when you taste it" and shape is desired but not always managed. Most will agree that those growing the P. Dreadie Select this season the percentage has been low in producing a good true shape across their plants if I was honest maybe 5% were worthy of being a select. I can never compete with those growing bonnets in the States with heat and humidity and it's true maybe that shape is affected by cooler climates however, with poly tunnels and greenhouses we are trying to stretch our seasons

Commercially industry needs to be better educated ... in the past ten years growing chillies has really taken off and with that more people are knowledgable and know their varieties ... my local supermarket continues to sell yellow and orange Habs as Bonnets .. I know the difference but all those others that don't are continually fooled each week as they pop their little bags of hot delight in their trolley ... I have even seen a bit of a get out clause on the packaging ... Carribean selection

The next question is ...... should we stop creating hybrids and go back to the bonnets true roots in respect of shape and size
Click to expand...
 
I believe that folks who want to create hybrids ought to go right ahead and create hybrids.  Really, they're gonna do it anyway, and I'd rather that the chile community just offers as much transparency as possible in terms of what's a deliberate hybrid, what's seed from open-pollinated plants (where accidental crosses are not just possible, but likely), and what is seed from isolated plants, where (if the plants were, in fact, grown from pure seed) we can expect some purity in terms of shape, size, and the most important factor: flavour.  There IS a difference between these factors (hybrids, open, & iso); it's up to each grower how much the difference matters to them.  And it's up to those who sell and/or give away seeds to be careful and honest in terms of making the information available, right?
 
As a guy who just likes to eat peppers, right now I don't care too much and i'll grow from some unknown seed or open-pollinated seed b/c, in the end, if the produce isn't what I expected, I'm simply going to shrug and eat it anyway.  I'm new to this, and i'm excited whether i succeed, fail, or (most likely) have a mix of triumphs and disasters.  But, as a thoroughly analytical person, I intend to take careful notes on specific results and any connections I can make as far as sources go.  One day, I'll probably fall "in love" with a specific variety, and just grow those b/c that's the kind of OCD I got.  Until then, variety is the spice of life, and i intend to have fun.  At the same time, I don't intend to share my open-pollinated seeds with anyone that doesn't share that same "F___-it" attitude.  Not b/c I'm stingy or anything like that, but b/c i know that disappointment is a bitch, and i wouldn't wish it on anyone.
 
But, those of us who love bonnets, we can get all pious about our faith that flavour is the most important consideration if we want to, but we're lying if we say that true-to-type phenos of the ol' Scotch Bonnet just look awesome.  I think an effort ought to be made to preserve that traditional Bonnet shape.  
dragonsfire said:
I was wondering about that because my plant looks like a regular Hab but My Jamaican Yellow Hab looks like a Traditional Scotch Bonnet Hat.
 
30194662625_d8d744030b_b.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Do all the pods on the plant look like that?  Do they taste like SBs, or like Habs?  BTW, that's a killer-lookin' chile, for sure.  I just wanna eat it.
 
I've been wandering about chilli classification a bit lately and think that flavour should be what decides weather a chilli is a hab or bonnet.

But what about bhuts, 7pots, scorpions, habs, bonnets etc. if you were blindfolded would you pick the difference and be able to catorgirise them?

I haven't tasted enough to know myself just yet. But chinense are easily picked apart from anuums.
 
Some of the big chili pepper sellers here (mainly from holland) use the shape of the "Scotch bonnet" in a very bad way.
 
All peppers they sell as scotch bonnets have a perfect shape, but they in fact are "jamaican mushroom", an awful tasting "anuum".
 
If you want real scotch bonnets here, you have to buy peppers that look like habaneros.
 
Jase4224 said:
I've been wandering about chilli classification a bit lately and think that flavour should be what decides weather a chilli is a hab or bonnet.

But what about bhuts, 7pots, scorpions, habs, bonnets etc. if you were blindfolded would you pick the difference and be able to catorgirise them?

I haven't tasted enough to know myself just yet. But chinense are easily picked apart from anuums.
Click to expand...
 
My palate isn't yet experienced enough to do all that, but I'm confident that one day it might.
 
As for distinguishing chinense from annuum, I recently received some Aji Cachucha peppers from a member here.  They had almost no heat at all (as expected), and the flavor neatly split the difference between chinense and annuum. The pod itself was relatively thick-walled.  These were the first Cachuchas I've ever tried, so I don't know if they were weird examples, or if that variety is just a annuum/chinense hybrid....
 
For me, though, the moment I cut a Bonnet open, the scent hits and it's instantly recognizable as a Bonnet.
 
Bicycle808 said:
 
I believe that folks who want to create hybrids ought to go right ahead and create hybrids.  Really, they're gonna do it anyway, and I'd rather that the chile community just offers as much transparency as possible in terms of what's a deliberate hybrid, what's seed from open-pollinated plants (where accidental crosses are not just possible, but likely), and what is seed from isolated plants, where (if the plants were, in fact, grown from pure seed) we can expect some purity in terms of shape, size, and the most important factor: flavour.  There IS a difference between these factors (hybrids, open, & iso); it's up to each grower how much the difference matters to them.  And it's up to those who sell and/or give away seeds to be careful and honest in terms of making the information available, right?
 
As a guy who just likes to eat peppers, right now I don't care too much and i'll grow from some unknown seed or open-pollinated seed b/c, in the end, if the produce isn't what I expected, I'm simply going to shrug and eat it anyway.  I'm new to this, and i'm excited whether i succeed, fail, or (most likely) have a mix of triumphs and disasters.  But, as a thoroughly analytical person, I intend to take careful notes on specific results and any connections I can make as far as sources go.  One day, I'll probably fall "in love" with a specific variety, and just grow those b/c that's the kind of OCD I got.  Until then, variety is the spice of life, and i intend to have fun.  At the same time, I don't intend to share my open-pollinated seeds with anyone that doesn't share that same "F___-it" attitude.  Not b/c I'm stingy or anything like that, but b/c i know that disappointment is a bitch, and i wouldn't wish it on anyone.
 
But, those of us who love bonnets, we can get all pious about our faith that flavour is the most important consideration if we want to, but we're lying if we say that true-to-type phenos of the ol' Scotch Bonnet just look awesome.  I think an effort ought to be made to preserve that traditional Bonnet shape.  

 
Do all the pods on the plant look like that?  Do they taste like SBs, or like Habs?  BTW, that's a killer-lookin' chile, for sure.  I just wanna eat it.
Click to expand...
yes they mostly look like this. Havent nibble on one of these for a while, dehydrating some now , I can do a taste test with my Scotch bonnet later and get back to you.
 
Tried them side by side this morning.
Both are low it fruitiness, when I cut into them I did not get a waft of smell.  The "Scotch Bonnet" is more flavor full/crunchy and juicy and thick walled compared to the Jamaican Yellow hab, The SB hotter then the JYH. Both have smooth heat, feel the heat on my Tongue and roof of mouth. So flavor wise I would go with the Scotch Bonnet.
The last of the fresh JYH
 
P1100465_ScothBonnetJamaicanYellHab-1000_zpszkznircl.jpg

_A235786_ScothBonnetJamaicanYellHabCut-1000_zpshjmrygnf.jpg
 
dragonsfire said:
Tried them side by side this morning.
Both are low it fruitiness, when I cut into them I did not get a waft of smell.  The "Scotch Bonnet" is more flavor full/crunchy and juicy and thick walled compared to the Jamaican Yellow hab, The SB hotter then the JYH. Both have smooth heat, feel the heat on my Tongue and roof of mouth. So flavor wise I would go with the Scotch Bonnet.
The last of the fresh JYH
 
P1100465_ScothBonnetJamaicanYellHab-1000_zpszkznircl.jpg

_A235786_ScothBonnetJamaicanYellHabCut-1000_zpshjmrygnf.jpg
Click to expand...
 
 
 
 
     I think your JYHs might be Jamaican yellow mushrooms. Their calyces look very much like they might have some annuum blood in them. Where did you get the seed?
 
The "Jamaican Mushroom" is exactly the pepper i mentioned. They sell it as a "Scotch Bonnet", but it is an "Anuum" and its taste is way beyond the taste of a scotch bonnet.
I always get angry when they sell it as a "Scotch Bonnet".
 
They easiest way to identify that it is no "Chinense" is the stem. No "Chinense" has such a big end of the stem.
 
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