sinensis grow log 2019 (with tomato grafting!)

hey all, giving this whole gardening thing another shot.
this is year number 2 for me, and i've got big plans, but we'll see how it goes, lol
 
i hope everyone has a great season!!!!
 
Overwinters:
 
my basic findings for overwintering is that zero light doesn't work well.
they need light! but only a little is fine. leaving them by a window seems more than sufficient to keep them alive.
just trim off most of their branches (maybe down to 1 foot or so) and bring them inside if they aren't full of pests.
 
Carolina Reaper
 
this was outdoors in a 15gal root pouch / smart pot (breathable fabric):
it was my biggest pepper plant. a branch broke off while i was carrying it inside, but it's doing just fine.
 

 

 
here's another reaper, but this one's always been an indoor plant:
 

 
 
Bhut Jolokia (red)
 

 
 
 
Aji Lemon Drop
Scotch Brains
Jay's Peach Ghost Scorpion
 

 
these were super neglected small plants that i started last summer but never made it outside. they spent some time in darkness also.
i just recently transplanted them in these 5gal SIP buckets.
before transplanting, i cleaned out the buckets and modified them to use a fabric wick instead of a dirt-packed netpot.
i think this is a superior system because the dirt is always gonna erode out of your net pot wick eventually and then won't wick as well.
a fabric wick also won't foul up your reservoir.
to do this, i duct taped the net pot hole and then slid the fabric wick through the edge:
 

 
the wick is a 4x16" strip of cut from a 16x16" microfiber cloth from costco (packs are sold for car washing).
 
 
Yaki Blue Fawn
 

 
this one spent some extended time in low light. look at that crazy etiolation
idk what to do about it. suggestions?
 

 
it's got a fruit on it
 
 
 
 
From Seed:
 
i ordered some 0.5 fl oz condiment cups with lids from amazon. seems like the perfect size to start seeds with the paper towel method.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017SITR8W/
 

 

 
 
i did a 24 hour soak this year. i think it's a good strategy to speed things up and possibly combat mold by removing residual 'food' (pepper juice/debris). basically serves as a final seed rinse.
the individual condiment cups make it easy.
 
 

 
my germination chamber is a styrofoam cooler with a small light bulb wired to a variac (a dimmer switch would also work).
a gallon of water pre-warmed to 85°F was placed in there to act as a thermal reservoir to buffer outside temp changes.
without the water, the temp swings by 5°F or more throughout a 24hr cycle. with the water, it swings only 1-3°F.
i know this because i have a thermometer in there that logs high/low and can be reset.
every couple days, i look at it and slightly tweak the variac knob if needed to keep it close to 85°F.
 
 
now for the grow list!!
 

this year, i want to give myself more variety. not just superhots. i want some good milds and mediums too!
 

started 2/6:
NuMex 6-4
NuMex Big Jim
7 Pot Primo Red
Galapagos Isabella Habanero
Bahamian Goat
Papa Dreadie Scotch Bonnet
Chocolate Scotch Bonnet
Peach Gum v3
Aji Fantasy Yellow
Bishop's Crown
Sugar Rush Peach
 
tomatoes started 2/6:
Green Zebra
Brandywine Black
Dr. Wyches Yellow
Arkansas Traveler
University of Florida Klee Lab: Garden Gem
University of Florida Klee Lab: Garden Treasure (brandywine)
University of Florida Klee Lab: "W" Hybrid
 
started 2/9:
Aleppo / Halaby
Pimiento Cristal
 
started 2/10:
Turkish Cayenne
 
started 2/11:
Sri Lanka Kandy Chili Red (growdown throwdown pepper)
 
i also said what the hell and ordered some seedlings from juanitos peppers:
Aji Lemon Drop
Biquinho (Baccatum, almost heatless, sweet juicy drop)
Brazilian Starfish
Habanada (heatless hab, snacking pepper)
Habanero Paper Lantern
Pasilla
Fish
West Indes Red
Scotch Bonnet MoA
Fatalii
Jays Peach Ghost Scorpion
Scotch Brain
 
they'll arrive hopefully after the last frost here.
 
2/11 progress report on tomatoes:
 

 
there we go!!
 
also, i want to experiment with tomato grafting this year.
the idea is that you can get crazy vigorous plants, disease-resistant roots, and possibly double the tomato yield.
here's an intro you can read if you're curious:
https://www.johnnyseeds.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-JSSSharedLibrary/default/dw881cb492/assets/information/tomatoes-side-grafting-advantages-materials-technique.pdf
 
i ordered 100 each of estamino and maxifort seeds from paramount:
https://paramountseeds.com/product/tomato-rootstock-estamino/
https://paramountseeds.com/product/tomato-rootstock-maxifort-raw/
 
anyone ever try grafting peppers onto something like maxifort? i wonder if it's worthwhile.

 

[CaneDog]

Cool stuff all around sinensis.  I was planning to graft some peppers onto tomato root stock this year, but was thinking of using Sungold because of how vigorous they grow where I am. I'm not too concerned with disease resistance, but the vigor of the Maxifort is intriguing and I might consider wedge grafting a few peppers scions onto that if I see it around.  Hey, maybe for that stretch Yaki you could just cut a foot out of the middle and wedge graft the top to the bottom - just like Cotton Hill's shins .
 
Curious, do the lids on those poly ports fit tightly?  I was going to buy some off Amazon, but saw some reviews saying they didn't and I figured that could be a disaster just waiting to happen.
 

 

[sinensis]

Cool all around sinensis.  I was planning to graft some peppers onto tomato root stock this year, but was thinking of using Sungold because of how vigorous they grow where I am. I'm not too concerned with disease resistance, but the vigor of the Maxifort is intriguing and I might consider wedge grafting a few peppers scions onto that if I see it around.  Hey, maybe for that stretch Yaki you could just cut a foot out of the middle and wedge graft the top to the bottom - just like Cotton Hill's shins .

hahaha. yeah, i might just try that. maybe after i get a few successful tomato grafts under my belt.
 
want any estamino/maxifort seeds? i'll send you some if you wanna play with them, i'll have 100 of each soon.
 

Curious, do the lids on those poly ports fit tightly?  I was going to buy some off Amazon, but saw some reviews saying they didn't and I figured that could be a disaster just waiting to happen.

poly ports are the little portion containers, ja?

they do fit tightly, but imo the lids deform a little after you remove them even once, and i bet the seal isn't as perfect after that.
i've noticed this effect with other similar (albeit larger) ones i tried using last year. a couple of weeks later, and i noticed the paper towels inside were dried out.

can't say yet if these will have the same problem.
i'm monitoring them closely this time and will spritz them if needed.

 

[CaneDog]

hahaha. yeah, i might just try that. maybe after i get a few successful tomato grafts under my belt.
 
want any estamino/maxifort seeds? i'll send you some if you wanna play with them, i'll have 100 of each soon.
Yeah maybe!  You've got me thinking more about that grafting project again and those maxiforts sound pretty intriguing.

poly ports are the little portion containers, ja?

they do fit tightly, but imo the lids deform a little after you remove them even once, and i bet the seal isn't as perfect after that.
i've noticed this effect with other similar (albeit larger) ones i tried using last year. a couple of weeks later, and i noticed the paper towels inside were dried out. I was thinking about knocking them over while soaking the seeds, but dehydration's probably the more likely and insidious disaster. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

can't say yet if these will have the same problem.
i'm monitoring them closely this time and will spritz them if needed.

 

 

 

[sinensis]

oh. they are for sure tight enough to not leak when tipped over. i just put some water in one and vigorously shook it up, no sign of leakage.
 
(also, they're so short, there could only be at most like 1cm of hydrostatic pressure if it's completely full. don't think slow leak will happen.)

 

[karoo]

What an introduction post!
Great looking OW's , those will reward you for keeping them alive.
Good luck .

 

[Walchit]

Those maxifort sound interesting. Do people grow them out or just use them for rootstock? Nice list of tomatoes! I need to do more research instead of waiting till the last second and growing burped seed.

 

[sinensis]

Those maxifort sound interesting. Do people grow them out or just use them for rootstock? Nice list of tomatoes! I need to do more research instead of waiting till the last second and growing burped seed.

 
you want a some seeds when i get them?
most rootstock is produced solely for use as rootstock.
they're 'designed' for insane vigor, generativity, and disease resistance... and nothing else, lol
they say don't grow them out as normal plants. i don't think their fruits are even edible.
 
also, i think a lot of them are F1? i'm guessing that suggests they're not stable. like, you might not have good luck growing them out in isolation for worthwhile seed saving. i wonder if the parent plants are stable or if the parents are all clones or what?

 

[nmlarson]

University of Florida Klee Lab: Garden Gem
 
anyone ever try grafting peppers onto something like maxifort? i wonder if it's worthwhile.
 

 
I hope you'll love the Garden Gem as much as I did.  I grew one plant a couple of years back.  They are "semi-determinate," meaning they say they don't need staking, but my one plant yielded more than 100 two-ounce tomatoes.  It needed staking simply because of the fruit weight.  They also said it didn't require suckering, but I did anyway just to keep it from taking over the deck.  The shelf life is pretty amazing.  Here's the plant I grew in an 18" square pot on my deck.
 

 
As for rootstock, here in Pennsylvania, I worked with estamino a bit, without success.  It's a matter of numbers, I suspect.  Make lots of grafts and your successes will be greater than with fewer grafts.  They (the experts) say you need a sterile enviroment, but there are tons of vids on YTube that show grafting being perfomed in less than ideal conditions by far from clean hands.  One tip I can give you is to grow a few sacrificial plants of each of your rootstock and your scion seed to see how stem diameters measure at specific times in their lives.  You need to match stem diameters as closely as possible when grafting and doing test grows is the only way to find out when to seed each.
 
As for grafting pepper scions onto tomato rootstock, I'm no expert, but why wouldn't you want to graft onto pepper rootstock?

 

[sinensis]

i learned about the UFL tomatoes from you 
 
i'm especially looking forward to the garden treasure actually since they're supposed to be brandywine-like, and i love brandywines.
 
 

As for grafting pepper scions onto tomato rootstock, I'm no expert, but why wouldn't you want to graft onto pepper rootstock?

 
i would except i don't know of pepper rootstock. did you have anything in particular in mind to try?
 
i only thought to graft peppers onto something like maxifort because i've heard that peppers and tomatoes are graft-compatible, and maxifort is specifically bred to be ridiculously vigorous with roots that extract water and nutrients from soil like crazy.

 

[sinensis]

actually, check this out
 
https://www.greatplainsgrowersconference.org/uploads/2/9/1/4/29140369/grafting_bell_peppers_to_improve_high_tunnel_production_david_loewen__cary_rivard.pdf
 
looks at bell pepper yield and fruit appearance when grafted on maxifort and a pepper rootstock called 'scarface'

 

[nmlarson]

i learned about the UFL tomatoes from you 
 
Ha!  I know you'll love it!
 
i'm especially looking forward to the garden treasure actually since they're supposed to be brandywine-like, and i love brandywines.
 
I included Treasure in my garden this year, too.  I didn't have any luck with them last year, but I didn't have any luck with anything in my garden last year.  It rained so damn much and I had such rotten luck, I didn't pick a single tomato.
 
i would except i don't know of pepper rootstock. did you have anything in particular in mind to try?
 
Spend some time checking out this article:
        https://www.greatplainsgrowersconference.org/uploads/2/9/1/4/29140369/grafting_bell_peppers_to_improve_high_tunnel_production_david_loewen__cary_rivard.pdf
 
There are some pretty startling results, above ground and below.  The "Scarface" rootstock they used in their test grow seems to have been developed for nematode resistance.  Is that an issue for you?  Whether or not, it's pretty clear from their results that Maxifort may not be the best choice for you.  However, a cursory search for Scarface seed yielded little.
 
i only thought to graft peppers onto something like maxifort because i've heard that peppers and tomatoes are graft-compatible, and maxifort is specifically bred to be ridiculously vigorous with roots that extract water and nutrients from soil like crazy.
 
Hmmm......I was under the impression Maxifort was for long-season plants and Estamino was for short-season growing.  They both are supposed to bring vigor to the table.  In any event, Maxifort doesn't seem to be the best choice.

 

[CaneDog]

 
As for grafting pepper scions onto tomato rootstock, I'm no expert, but why wouldn't you want to graft onto pepper rootstock?

 
 

i would except i don't know of pepper rootstock. did you have anything in particular in mind to try?
 
i only thought to graft peppers onto something like maxifort because i've heard that peppers and tomatoes are graft-compatible, and maxifort is specifically bred to be ridiculously vigorous with roots that extract water and nutrients from soil like crazy.

 
This is interesting stuff and glad to see the discussion.  I was talking with stc3248 recently about rococotos and baccatums as potentially good pepper rootstock for other peppers - http://thehotpepper.com/topic/70211-canedog-off-season-season-201819/?p=1609449 (Can't multi-quote out of this thread it seems) and he's had some insane root systems from these guys.
 
I lean toward tomato rootstock because I think of them as faster developers than most peppers so going after vigor to accelerate plant growth and fruit development, but perhaps rocoto root stock might help some tomatoes grow better in cooler weather or even minimize BER by delivering a more consistent water supply from a bigger root system.  Sounds like the maxi's would really help with the consistent water delivery vs BER for other tomatoes as well, though the trade-off for some of these massive root systems does seem to be the requirement of a longer growing season.  Don't remember every hearing of "scarface" - thought the name fits with a Florida connection :
 
All cool stuff and really intrigued to see what people can accomplish this year.

 

[CDNmatt]

Between the over winters and your seeds off to a great start dude....That Blue fawn is something crazy though eh, does it stay up on it's own with no staking?
 
Is super exciting to watch peoples with some skillz pumped up aboot tomato grafting, its something I am going to try myself this year.

 

[sinensis]

i have no skillz. quite new to all of this! anything remotely interesting you see me doing i'm probably just trying for the first time, so we'll see how it goes haha
 
and yea, i feel bad about that yaki blue. it was such a pretty seedling, and i just neglected it.
 

 
 
look at that pretty foliage last year!
it was almost dead when i transplanted it. doh!
for now, it does stay up on its own with no staking....

 

[Major Pain]

This is really interesting.
 
I hope the grafting works out well. 

 

[PaulG]

+1 everybody!
 
Off to a roaring start, sinensis!
Everything looks great. The indoor
Reaper is stunning. Really like the
new, green branch it put out.
Good luck going forward...
 
As for the Yaki Blue Fawn, I agree
with grafting the top onto the base
to make it a short plant again  
 
Or transplant it somewhere DEEP 

 

[sinensis]

i got a sick deal on some commercial T5 HO fluorescent fixtures from a warehouse that just switched to LED.
 
IB 654L WDS 277 CS11 MSI
https://www.cesco.com/Lithonia-Lighting-Acuity-IB-654L-Lithonia-Lighting-Acuity-IB-654L-I-Beam-reg-6-Light-Suspension-Mount-Fluorescent-High-Bay-Fixture-54-Watt-White-Lamp-Included/p2078452
https://www.cesco.com/resources/pdf_5C7/206318-AttachmentURL.pdf
 
they're 6-bulb 4ft units, and each includes a motion sensor (that i will have to find a way to bypass. probably just need to short something).
 
i snagged 6 of them for $25 each. they all have used bulbs in them, but they threw in 16 new "starcoat ecolux 4100K HO" bulbs they had left over.
https://products.currentbyge.com/sites/products.currentbyge.com/files/documents/document_file/28345_Starcoat_T5_Ecolux.pdf
 
you think these bulbs are ok for growing? maybe fine for seedlings at least?
 
they even came with the chains to hang them 
 
i'll probably use 3-4 for growing and 2-3 as garage lights. the motion sensors would be really nice for the garage actually.
 
 

 

 

[CDNmatt]

They would be more then fine and certainly at the very least till plant out, really that was alot of people used (and still do)  was floro's excluding the higher end MH's and HPS fixtures....solid deal btw dude, very awesome

 

[sinensis]

i opened up the ballast enclosure on one of the lights and rewired it without the motion sensor and propped it up on a couple of chairs for now.
seedling tray underneath.
 
i didn't have the seedling dome vents open enough and it got kinda hot in there (not sure how hot, didn't have a thermometer). oops.
i'm worried i cooked a few un-emerged tomato and pepper seedlings (the emerged seedlings look ok i guess). i guess we'll see. from now on, i'm being more careful with the seedling tray temp.
 
all the seedlings you see are tomatoes. they're way ahead of the peppers ofc
 

 
 
luckily i had most of my sprouted pepper seeds still in my foam cooler germination chamber. i'll wait until they get a bit bigger before putting them in tray cells under the lamp.