The Great Pepper Compendium

[KrakenPeppers]

The Great Pepper Compendium
 
Does it exist.. If not should we start creating it ..... ?
 

The hardest thing I have found about peppers.. Is credible information....
 
The more I research the more I discover the vast lack of information regarding peppers available to us the cultivators.. Eg. I want to know what a pure pheno of a "Pimenta De Neyde" is supposed to be like. I search google and get my 10 varying web pages of details.  
 
Some show a smooth matte finished bullet shaped elongated pod pure black in colour on an almost pure black lightly foliaged plant... The next shows a similar pepper with green stems and gloss black pods with more foliage... the next with slightly more lantern shaped pods.... The next with a definite purple shine to them ..
 
While I understand that different conditions will produce differing results the colour and shapes are unmistakably different and even if both are considered "Pimenta De Neyde's" when one is obviously not the other, they cant be the same...
 
This is one small example of the struggles we all face in this space. Does anyone know of a place that can offer me this "Compendium" that I seek, other than limited and inaccurate wiki pages ?
 
If there is no such thing... Does it lay to us to create such a thing... ??? How do I know when I have the alleged "Pimenta" before me that what I have is what it is.. And while this has no real baring on the taste, smell and look of what I grow, I want to know that when I say to someone "Have some Pimenta seeds " or  "Its a Pimetna x Bhut" that what I say is factual and not just continuing the miss information that is so prevalent..
 
If 100 growers all grew a '7 Pod Jonah Yellow' from stock they self source.. I'm willing to bet there's at least 20-30 variations of the plant and pods grown... When looking at them all in front of me, I would like to be able to flip to page 119 of the so called Compendium and say... "Judging by this official resource, those 5 pods look like the original product, the rest are variations or crosses but not as pure as those 5 " ..
 
Anyways.... While new varieties are created in there so called "Stable forms" it would be nice if said creators took multiple quality photos of there Prime specimens from all angles inside and out and documented the flavours, fragrance etc. so We have a reference of what the original was about, and if possible the official varieties crossed to create said peppers.. If known, no guesses..
 
Rant over... If anyone can illuminate me about said information, please let me know..
 
 

 

[kentishman]

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice ...

 

[juanitos]

ideas like these only work if people who are knowledgeable contribute.

I created and am beta testing a wiki for this purpose, have you grown any peppers? update their pages with any relevant information, add a review: pepperdatabase.org\
 
if you think we need more features, better customization.. great! let's talk about it.
I pay for the site but am no way the "owner" i want everyone to be a part 

 

[Jamison]

Wow!
 

 

[Pr0digal_son]

The Great Pepper Compendium
 
Does it exist.. If not should we start creating it ..... ?
 

The hardest thing I have found about peppers.. Is credible information....
 
The more I research the more I discover the vast lack of information regarding peppers available to us the cultivators.. Eg. I want to know what a pure pheno of a "Pimenta De Neyde" is supposed to be like. I search google and get my 10 varying web pages of details.  
 
Some show a smooth matte finished bullet shaped elongated pod pure black in colour on an almost pure black lightly foliaged plant... The next shows a similar pepper with green stems and gloss black pods with more foliage... the next with slightly more lantern shaped pods.... The next with a definite purple shine to them ..
 
While I understand that different conditions will produce differing results the colour and shapes are unmistakably different and even if both are considered "Pimenta De Neyde's" when one is obviously not the other, they cant be the same...
 
This is one small example of the struggles we all face in this space. Does anyone know of a place that can offer me this "Compendium" that I seek, other than limited and inaccurate wiki pages ?
 
If there is no such thing... Does it lay to us to create such a thing... ??? How do I know when I have the alleged "Pimenta" before me that what I have is what it is.. And while this has no real baring on the taste, smell and look of what I grow, I want to know that when I say to someone "Have some Pimenta seeds " or  "Its a Pimetna x Bhut" that what I say is factual and not just continuing the miss information that is so prevalent..
 
If 100 growers all grew a '7 Pod Jonah Yellow' from stock they self source.. I'm willing to bet there's at least 20-30 variations of the plant and pods grown... When looking at them all in front of me, I would like to be able to flip to page 119 of the so called Compendium and say... "Judging by this official resource, those 5 pods look like the original product, the rest are variations or crosses but not as pure as those 5 " ..
 
Anyways.... While new varieties are created in there so called "Stable forms" it would be nice if said creators took multiple quality photos of there Prime specimens from all angles inside and out and documented the flavours, fragrance etc. so We have a reference of what the original was about, and if possible the official varieties crossed to create said peppers.. If known, no guesses..
 
Rant over... If anyone can illuminate me about said information, please let me know..

This might help with your De Neyde dilemma. Use chrome browser and translate option. There will be an english version at a later date.

http://www.pepperfriends.com/forum/topic/10494-pimenta-da-neyde/#entry289552




This isn't a compendium(yet)and still under construction and brainstorming. In 5 years or so it should be a pretty solid database,one that I am proud to have contributed to.

Years back,I would ask the original source of the seeds,back then it was usually cmpman1974. He spread a huge portion of the stuff people were growing back then,and he knew what they should look like.

With the designer superhot mutts and arms races,egos,unintentional crosses,it is getting hard to single out any true phenotype. Factor in the 100s of thousands of plants being grown worlwide and all the variants that pop up,more renaming,etc.,it's not worth the anuerysm.

I think(seeing it more lately) at some point in time you will see people start wanting to grow original strains of Bhuts,7 Pods,wilds,Scotch Bonnets.

 

[KrakenPeppers]

With the designer superhot mutts and arms races,egos,unintentional crosses,it is getting hard to single out any true phenotype. Factor in the 100s of thousands of plants being grown worlwide and all the variants that pop up,more renaming,etc.,it's not worth the anuerysm.

I think(seeing it more lately) at some point in time you will see people start wanting to grow original strains of Bhuts,7 Pods,wilds,Scotch Bonnets.

 
This is exactly what I mean, in another generation of growers, let alone us, how will we be able to identify true original and wild strains.

ideas like these only work if people who are knowledgeable contribute.

I created and am beta testing a wiki for this purpose, have you grown any peppers? update their pages with any relevant information, add a review: pepperdatabase.org\
 
if you think we need more features, better customization.. great! let's talk about it.
I pay for the site but am no way the "owner" i want everyone to be a part 

 
I like where its going so far and would be happy to contribute when I can ... Without too much information being added, a good starting spot will just be good images of "pure strains" the plants, flowers and pods ( cut open, singular as well as a few variation images for the not so perfect etc.) that alone will help the identification of peppers for the community... Then from there the information and details will form. 
 
The pepperfriends site appears to be very good for that so far with images and I will for one be using this as a reference for images but the language barrier will be a frustration..

Wow!
 

 
lol.. No, I just hate misinformation and the heated arguments that ensue with no real reference to settle the matter...

 

[Jamison]

My question is: how do you know which is a pure strain or what any one pepper SHOULD look or taste like? Who decides that?


Landrace strains are hard to come by and who knows how it has evolved over the years?

 

[KrakenPeppers]

My question is: how do you know which is a pure strain or what any one pepper SHOULD look or taste like? Who decides that?


Landrace strains are hard to come by and who knows how it has evolved over the years?

 
This is exactly my point... Gathering all the recorded information of the yesteryears and pooling it into one resource... Surely Botanists and the like have recorded some of this information over the years... Cultivars that have created new stable breeds would need to provide their own information... etc.
 
With new pheno's being found in more recent years.. Who found them... How did they introduce them, are they able to be reached to talk to ..
 
The very question you asked is the very reason there is such a need for this information to be gathered before it is lost forever.. And in todays age of digital information superhighways not only would that be a loss to us the people that care it would just be a piece of the worlds history lost also, and that would be just shocking to me that a species may evolve over hundreds if not thousands of years, be grown, harvested, eaten and shared for as many years and just be bred out of existence without it never being recorded into the history books..
 
To answer you in part, I imagine with some more recently found varieties were no identifiable creator / evolution can be found it may become a matter for public opinion and through voting / discussion / refinement of information that the details are fine tuned as much as possible without original resources available.

 

[Pr0digal_son]

My question is: how do you know which is a pure strain or what any one pepper SHOULD look or taste like? Who decides that?
Landrace strains are hard to come by and who knows how it has evolved over the years?

This is a good question. There is definitely not one authority. If you read the link I posted above(chrome translator works great and email was english)it explains in detail how Pimenta de Neyde came about. An email from Neyde(founder) is in there.

That kind of history is valuable. The Neyde has since been used to create some very cool hybrids. One of those hybrids was Pimenta Elisa which has been renamed a bunch and the history of that pepper will die also.

This stuff is not interesting to most I understand,and I don't think a compendium can really happen. If you exclude all of the silly and designer stuff out there,it is possible to come close. There are actually a ton of stable and landrace chilis out there. As I mentioned above,we are seeing,and will continue to see more people seek these out,grow and document them.

 
To answer you in part, I imagine with some more recently found varieties were no identifiable creator / evolution can be found it may become a matter for public opinion and through voting / discussion / refinement of information that the details are fine tuned as much as possible without original resources available.

I don't think most of that garbage will be talked about in history. It will and should be Bhut,7 Pod,Trinidad Scorpion,and any ones that have attained record status or have had time invested in them to make them stand out.

 

[juanitos]

i don't mind documenting them all, the best varieties with the most dedicated followers will have the best information of course, and that's fine.
The articles where no one is active on them are just like stubs, atleast they show you a picture of the pepper but that's about it.

 

[KrakenPeppers]

\
I don't think most of that garbage will be talked about in history. It will and should be Bhut,7 Pod,Trinidad Scorpion,and any ones that have attained record status or have had time invested in them to make them stand out.

 
This is what I'm talking about, the Guiness world record holders.. The strains that lead to these other strains like mentioned above. There could easily be a section for less famous popular stable varieties that get created, but these would be of lesser importance in the gathering and recording of the originals.
 
 
http://www.pepperfriends.com/joomla/index.php was really interesting and the records of the peppers amazingly photographed... This was what I had in mind (if in English) but even this is lacking some important varieties, but saying that lists some I've never heard of either...

Thanks for linking it, I haven't stopped clicking through all the varieties ...