Thoughts on new leaf damage

[Jeff H]

I've been chasing this on and off for months now and although the plants seem to be growing and producing, I'm pretty sure this leaf damage is stunting their potential. 
 
Before I treat these leaves for mites again of try to flood them with Calcium (both of which I've done a couple times, I wanted to get the get the group's opinion on the damage. By the way, I see no bugs except ants and flies on the plants. 
 
 

Red Hab in Miracle gro soil.
 
 

Hot Paper lantern in a hydro drip system. 
 

Cayenne in a hydro bucket. 
 

Out of focus Cayenne in soil looks the same. 
 
 
Only a handful of my plants show these symptoms. For example, the Butch T and Brainstrain yellow in the next two pics are in the same hydro system and are growing and producing wonderfully. 

 

[birdfather]

calcium deficiency or pest damage. i'd imagine in a hydro set up you'd need to use a lot of cal-mag

 

[TXCG]

Might be thrips. This looks similar to the damage they cause on my plants, particularly the messed up edges of the young leaves. Thrips are TINY and really hard to see with the naked eye. Look really closely at flowers, they like to hang out inside those as well as the brand new leaves tiny leaves that are still mostly rolled up. 
 
Since they're so hard to see sometimes its easier to find them by holding a piece of white paper underneath a flower or young leaf & giving the plant a good thump. Any you knock off will be easy to see as tiny little yellow-brown specs scurrying about. They also make sticky traps to check for their presence.
 
 

They look like this:
 

 

 
However you said you see ants on your plants. In my experience if you see ants there are almost guaranteed to be aphids even if you don't spot them at first. 

 

[gasificada]

Mites. I can see them in the third pic. Very very very tiny white specks.

Second pic looks a little thrippy though. It's possible you are so lucky like me and get both. Deffo mites there though.

 

[Jeff H]

Yep, pretty much what I was thinking on the mites. I don't have a magnifying glass powerful enough to see them so I can only guess that it is mite damage. Since calcium deficiency looks so similar, I keep a steady diet of cal-mag in the hydro reservoir just to be sure. 

 

[Pepper-Guru]

Mites

 

[Jeff H]

Thanks for your certainty Guru. I sprayed again so we'll see in a couple of weeks. 
 
In my eradication mode using a Bayer mite and insect killer, I found two or three red little insects that looked like they could be aphids, but they were red .Do they make red ones? I sprayed the hell out of them anyway just to be sure. I really doubt they are the culprit, I saw them on a healthy plant. 

 

[Bruce]

Did the red ones look like this?  These are all over my plants this year and I'm killing a ton daily...
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_mite

 

[Jeff H]

Did the red ones look like this?  These are all over my plants this year and I'm killing a ton daily...
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_mite

 
Very very possible. What I saw were red and tiny, like 1mm. Spider mites are a possibility. I had always assumed they were broad mites because I couldn't see them. Maybe I have both types. Yeah, so much fun. 

 

[georgej]

i only clicked like because the last pic made me laugh

 

[gasificada]

Hey Jeff, what are you using against the little bastages? Meant to say before, if you are using neem, or any oil for that matter, forget it... the stuff is useless against broad mite. You will get much better results using sulfur or even garden soap. Garden soap isn't great but it's much more effective than neem at least. Sulfur will kick their ass but it can also throw your plants around a bit (burnage, etc). And not suggesting at all that you use chemicals but if they are your thing, avoid broad spectrum insecticides as they are generally inneffective against broad mite and all you will be doing is killing your good guys, and in effect, giving the broad mite a stronger hold. Abamectin is one exception that supposedly works great against mites or go for a specific miticide.
 
My hot tip though... Neoseiulus californicus predator mites. Magic against broad mite. They should also take care of the spider mite too. Unfortunately though, as re-release may be required every now and again, it is probably the most costly option. Not a good option either if you have to spray for other pests as you will most likely take out your new friends too.
 
Also, the flies you mention, try to keep them away from your plants if you can (deterrant plants? fly traps?). Flying insects are a major vector for broad mite infestation. The little mite bastages "hitch a ride" on 'em on to your plants. Whitefly are probably the most notorious for bringing broad mite to plants but I assume any flying insect is susceptible to being used.

 

[Jeff H]

 
 
Hey Jeff, what are you using against the little bastages? Meant to say before, if you are using neem, or any oil for that matter, forget it... the stuff is useless against broad mite. You will get much better results using sulfur or even garden soap. Garden soap isn't great but it's much more effective than neem at least. Sulfur will kick their ass but it can also throw your plants around a bit (burnage, etc). And not suggesting at all that you use chemicals but if they are your thing, avoid broad spectrum insecticides as they are generally inneffective against broad mite and all you will be doing is killing your good guys, and in effect, giving the broad mite a stronger hold. Abamectin is one exception that supposedly works great against mites or go for a specific miticide.

 
 
I'm not much of an organic gardener and this far from harvest, I don't have many qualms about using chemicals. Below is what I have been spraying. I felt bad thinking I could be killing beneficial insects, but since I didn't see anything other than some white flies, ants and this mite damage, I figured I would just bring out the firepower to kill the invaders.