seeds Trouble with super hots after germination

[Delta]

Hi all,
I am growing from seed for the first time and having a difficult time getting beyond 2 leaves. It seems they have stalled. Some of my seedlings are still hooked 5 days after sprouting. Here is what I'm doing with my Cherry red hot, Bhut, Red Moruga, Carolina Reaper and Butch T's.
 
I'm germinating half in paper towel and have in plastic cups. I have great germination rates with both methods. I start half my seedlings in Miracle Grow seed starting mix (0.0-0.01-0.0) and half in organic black soil and have about the same results with both. Once the hooks appear I remove the cling wrap and put the cups under a four foot, two bulb shop light about 1 to 3 inches from the bulbs. The bulbs are Grow Lux 32 watt wide spectrum T8's. The room temp is around 23 degrees celsius/ 73.4 F but it does dip a little over night. (I'm in Canada) I water with a spray bottle and distilled water. I add a little to the soil around the base of the plants, never the leaves, about twice a day as they seem to dry out quickly. 
 
I did have some good success a few months back when I was growing my plants on the kitchen counter under a 2 foot cool white flourescent. They were leggy but they did get to 6 leaves. They all withered and died pretty quickly after that. That's when I changed the light setup.
 
As I understand, the symptoms of over watering and under watering are similar. How much water should I be giving them? Are the bulbs I'm using good enough?
 
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. And I do apologize as all of these problems have undoubtedly been covered in various threads on the site.
 
Delta
 
 

 

[cruzzfish]

3-4 inches from the bulbs!?
 
At least a foot an a half if you want them to keep doing will. Some use that distance, but it causes problems once they take off.
They need water every 3 days when they become established, few drops daily for seedlings. The symptoms for under and over watering are similar, but easy to tell apart. Soft leaf with wet soil=overwater, dry soil is underwatered. 
 
They're gonna stay at 2 leaves for a LONG time. I planted madballz start of last month. Still short. Reaper took 4 months to get going.

 

[Delta]

Thank you cruzzfish.
 
I always thought that a foot away from the bulbs would lead to leggy plants reaching for the light. I'll put more distance between the two and see how it goes.

 

[Mallory]

Thank you cruzzfish.
 
I always thought that a foot away from the bulbs would lead to leggy plants reaching for the light. I'll put more distance between the two and see how it goes.

 
 
You are correct, as long as you are using plain shop lights with t8 bulbs (which it sounds like you are) you are doing the right thing by keeping them at 3-4" distance. This does keep the plants from stretching for the light and developing weak stems.
 
For hooks to stay in the ground that long is a little unusual. When it has happened to me it was usually a period of low temps, and sometimes overwatering made it worse. Warm them up a bit and they should get there. Sometimes seedlings stay small for a long time if temps are not ideal, but when the weather warms, they should catch up.

 

[geeme]

I'm not overly concerned about the only two leaves part. Some plants seem to stall out for a while before they get moving. And the temps aren't unreasonable, either. I'm in N.E. Ohio, so I get the difficulty with the temps that you can deal with. I'm more concerned about your watering. It is true that pepper plants like more of a humid environment rather than wet, so it would seem that misting/spraying on a regular basis would be a good thing. But, as they say in Texas, it ain't necessarily so, and especially with young'uns.
 
You say they seem to dry out - define that. Simply looking and/or touching the surface of the soil with your finger doesn't tell the story of what's going on underneath. Many recommended to me and now I recommend to you - bottom-water. Make sure you have sufficient drainage, and dip the cups/pots into water so that it comes close to, but does not reach, the soil surface. Then pull the cups out and let drain thoroughly. Now lift the cup and feel the weight of it - how heavy is it? Wait a couple days and lift it again and notice the difference. You want to wait until there is a fairly significant weight difference before watering, yet you don't want to let it get bone-dry. Bone dry - put some dry soil into the same size cup and feel how light it is compared to the cup with the plant in it after you watered it. Don't let it get that light. Ultimately you are going to want to let the leaves droop just a tad between watering, but it sounds like your plants are still too young for that. You'll want to let them get 4-6 leaves for that.
 
What else? Bottom-watering is recommended in part because it makes the plant reach the roots down to get to the water. That's a good thing because deeper roots make for a sturdier top. Also, if you let the surface of the soil remain wet too long it is going to be susceptible to the damping-off fungus. Not a good thing, as it can kill your plant. In addition to bottom-watering, get a fan on them. This will both help to keep the surface dry and also help strengthen the stems. I am not talking about blasting them - if you have a fan and it is too strong, point it in the direction of a wall or other surface it can reflect off of. The point is to get air circulating.
 
Best wishes with your grow!

 

[Jamison]

3-4 inches from the bulbs!?
 
At least a foot an a half if you want them to keep doing will. Some use that distance, but it causes problems once they take off.
They need water every 3 days when they become established, few drops daily for seedlings. The symptoms for under and over watering are similar, but easy to tell apart. Soft leaf with wet soil=overwater, dry soil is underwatered. 
 
They're gonna stay at 2 leaves for a LONG time. I planted madballz start of last month. Still short. Reaper took 4 months to get going.

 
Horrible advice IMO.  Blind leading the blind there.  
 
Geeme's advice is valid.

 

[Delta]

Thank you all for the advice so far. The plants are at 4 inches from the lights. I had some as close as an inch away. I think that might be a little close. cruzzfish's advice, although perhaps not totally accurate, did draw some attention to a potential problem so I am thankful he responded. 
 
geeme, I based the drying out on the condition of the soil surface and a few of the pots have enough area that I can stick a finger gently in the soil. They seem dry. Hardly accurate I know. I'll start bottom watering as you suggested. Thank you for the complete walk through.
 
Mallory, the stalled hook was getting thinner, not looking good at all so I re-covered it and put it back in the warm container I use to germinate. I'll give it a day in the warm and see how it does.
 
I have been reading that the Miracle Grow seed starting soil is not so great. Anybody have an opinion on that? 
 
Delta

 

[pshngo]

I would think the problem would be the distilled water<--not good for your plants. you need to add some trace minerals to that. or use spring water--> right next to the distilled, same price
or filter your tap water (reverse osmosis)

 

[cruzzfish]

 
Horrible advice IMO.  Blind leading the blind there.  
 
Geeme's advice is valid.

From what I've seen, a plant's leaves curled from being too close to the light, Granted, this was a large plant that was put into light after an extended period of time, and there were other variables at play. It's just that leaves rolling up a day and a half after lighting is a bit suspicious to me. Geeme knows more than I do though.
 
For water, if you can drink it, the plant's can too. Only carnivores and some very specific others need distilled water. 
 
I needed to be more  specific. Geeme's method of waiting till they wilt a bit is the same one I use, though I usually wait for 8 leaves(not completed, just the 7th and 8th forming.)
 
Edit2: It also tanned very heavily when the leaves curled. Turned very dark purple leaves, so it was shocked from the corner.

 

[Mallory]

Thank you all for the advice so far. The plants are at 4 inches from the lights. I had some as close as an inch away. I think that might be a little close. cruzzfish's advice, although perhaps not totally accurate, did draw some attention to a potential problem so I am thankful he responded. 
 
geeme, I based the drying out on the condition of the soil surface and a few of the pots have enough area that I can stick a finger gently in the soil. They seem dry. Hardly accurate I know. I'll start bottom watering as you suggested. Thank you for the complete walk through.
 
Mallory, the stalled hook was getting thinner, not looking good at all so I re-covered it and put it back in the warm container I use to germinate. I'll give it a day in the warm and see how it does.
 
I have been reading that the Miracle Grow seed starting soil is not so great. Anybody have an opinion on that? 
 
Delta

 
If the hook is looking thinner I'm sorry to say it is probably a goner. The seed casing could be rotting in the soil. When I had a problem with this happening I was also using the Miracle Grow seed starting soil, which I will never use again. Not sure if that is in any way related, or if it was just the cooler temps that caused a few to stall too long. But the Miracle Grow starter seemed to produce very weak root systems.
 
I switched over to sprouting in fox farm ocean forest and it there have been no issues this time around.

 

[Delta]

 
If the hook is looking thinner I'm sorry to say it is probably a goner. The seed casing could be rotting in the soil. When I had a problem with this happening I was also using the Miracle Grow seed starting soil, which I will never use again. Not sure if that is in any way related, or if it was just the cooler temps that caused a few to stall too long. But the Miracle Grow starter seemed to produce very weak root systems.
 
I switched over to sprouting in fox farm ocean forest and it there have been no issues this time around.

 
You're probably right however, I'm not going to give up on it just yet as it actually looks a little better today than yesterday. 
 
I don't think I'll use the MG seed starter anymore. I've read too many negative comments and as I mentioned, I'm getting the same results with organic black soil. Unfortunately here in canada, over the winter there is little choice as the big stores warehouse most of the garden stuff and the garden stores close for the season.
 
In any case, I've sort of gone in to this with the mindset that I'm going to make mistakes and I'm going to lose plants even with good advice from experienced growers. Last year was my first growing hot peppers from established plants. I had a great harvest, created some fantastic recipes AND successfully overwintered about 8 out of 25 plants with no first hand knowledge. I'm unstoppable. lol

 

[Delta]

Just an update...
All but one of my super hots have died.

 

[JJJessee]

Sorry,
Nothing like a clean slate to focus one's resolve.
R.I.P supers

 

[Delta]

Thanks J.
 
I think I'll go back to the basics. I had better results when I didn't know ANYTHING about growing. lol  It seems that once I started fussing with my plants, they started dying.
 
The tough part will be replacing all the seeds. The super hots are impossible to find around here and expensive to have shipped. I was hoping to get at least one plant of each in order to save the seeds.
 
Well, if at first you don't succeed...
 
D

 

[degenerate]

Thanks J.
 
I think I'll go back to the basics. I had better results when I didn't know ANYTHING about growing. lol  It seems that once I started fussing with my plants, they started dying.
 
The tough part will be replacing all the seeds. The super hots are impossible to find around here and expensive to have shipped. I was hoping to get at least one plant of each in order to save the seeds.
 
Well, if at first you don't succeed...
 
D

 
The best advice I got about growing peppers was on this forum, and to paraphrase, it went something like this: Leave your plants alone! They have evolved over millions of years to survive without your help. Put some seeds in some soil, give em a bit of water now and then, and they will figure the rest out
 
I'm in Canada as well, so I picked up a seedling tray with heat mat for germination and had great success with all my peppers, including superhots. I'm wondering if it's getting too cool for your seedlings before they are getting the chance to fully sprout?
 
Anyway, I wish you luck with your next attempt! Don't give up!

 

[Delta]

 
The best advice I got about growing peppers was on this forum, and to paraphrase, it went something like this: Leave your plants alone! They have evolved over millions of years to survive without your help. Put some seeds in some soil, give em a bit of water now and then, and they will figure the rest out
 
I'm in Canada as well, so I picked up a seedling tray with heat mat for germination and had great success with all my peppers, including superhots. I'm wondering if it's getting too cool for your seedlings before they are getting the chance to fully sprout?
 
Anyway, I wish you luck with your next attempt! Don't give up!

 
Thank you degenerate.
 
Great advice indeed. I'm not sure what is happening to them but I will get rid of the Miracle Grow. Everything I've grown in it is weak. I've read that others here have had the same problem.