Ultra Hot Grow Op: Probably a lost cause but hoping to learn from my mistakes

[ProjectMayhem]

Hi there,
 
I recently became very interested in hot peppers and decided to try my luck at a grow. During all my research this forum came up time and time again and proved to be a valuable resource for me. As such, I'm hoping you might have some advice regarding a problem I've encountered.
 
The Setup
I purchased some seeds online from a very reputable dealer. They included: Carolina Reaper, Ghost Pepper, Chocolate Habanero, Early Jalapeno
 
The germination setup was as follows:

• Heat pad
• 32 cell plastic propagation tray with dome (cells ~ 2.5" x 2.5" x 3")
• Miracle gro organic choice and mixed in both perlite and vermiculite (I've sinced learned that MG Organic is a poor choice of medium. Perhaps this is a cautionary tale?)
• Sunblaster T5 fluorescent light (2' long and 6400K). On for 18hrs and off for 6hrs at night.
• Later on once the dome was removed I added a small fan. I'd put it on a very low setting for a couple hours a day.

Germination
On March 30, I soaked the seeds for 8 hours in distilled water before planting 1/4" below the surface of the soil. There were no problems germinating, everything came up quick and seemingly healthy.
 
Early growth. Probably 1-1.5 weeks in.

 

 
Early Progress
Things seemed to be going very well at first. The seed leaves came in fine and everything was a nice bright green. The jalapenos were the first to break the surface and soon grew rather tall. However, in hindsight I believe they should have filled out more before growing upward. I presume this is what you refer to as "leggy"? The remaining strains broke through soon after but didn't experience the same burst in height as the jalapenos.
 
Early growth:

 
Since then
I planted three seeds per cell and cut the weaker two once they became evident. Sets of true leaves sprouted in some cases, while others had a true leaf sprout only on one side of the plant. In other cases no true leaves sprouted at all leaving only the otherwise healthy looking seed leaves. There has been some marginal growth in height but apart from that, nothing. It has been roughly a month and a half since I planted and I have not witnessed any significant progress in weeks. They're still alive, standing straight and green, but growth has come to a standstill for many weeks now.
 
I've been watering once a week but only introduced fertilizer two weeks ago. I figured (perhaps incorrectly) that the seedlings would be fine with the 0.10 - 0.05 - 0.05 PKN nutrients in the soil. I was also top watering which I just learned is frowned upon. When I noticed the prolonged period without growth I introduced Schultz liquid plant food (10-15-10). The plants didn't seem to notice. Basically no change at all so I'm pretty stumped.
 
Pics from today (Note: I just watered them):
 
Jalapeno

 
Chocolate Habanero:

 
Ghost Pepper:

 
Carolina Reaper:

 
Seeing as I'm going to abandon this grow, I decided to pull up a couple seedlings to check on root development. Here's the Jalapeno and Chocolate Habanero:

 
The Way Forward
A good friend of mine planted these varieties and a few others at the exact same time as me. I saw his progress today and was stunned at the growth. His plants were HUUUGE compared to mine, despite being planted simultaneously. He used peat pellets so I'm wondering if this is the reason for his far better outcome. I've ordered some more seeds and am determined to try again, but I would appreciate some feedback on my setup so I don't end up with another disappointment. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks you kindly!

 

[megahot]

I recommend more light and lower to the plants, which is why your plants were leggy. I also recommend using Jiffy pellets, Jiffy Seed starting mix, or Promix.
 
I wish you success!

 

[ProjectMayhem]

Thank you sir! I was wondering about my light height. Right now it's about 7 inches above the plants so I'll be sure to drop it down for the next attempt.
 
I also forgot to mention I measured the pH and it's about 6.5, so slightly acidic.

 

[pepperproblem]

I agree. Where are the lights? They should be almost on top of them as soon as they sprout. Looks a bit dark in the photos. Also, if your soil had nutes you really do not want to add ferts this soon. Those numbers are too strong for seedings. Dilute it down to a 1/4 or less if you really feel compelled to feed them. Good luck
 
Also turn off heating pad when they start sprouting. Another thing, what is the air temp in the room?
 
 
Here is a shot of c. galapagoense a few days ago. It is almost touching the lights.

 
 

 

[Phil]

I agree with the above assessments on the lights. That being said, I wouldn't abandon the grow. I also agree with holding back on nutes for now. If it were me, I'd harden them off as soon as possible and get them some natural sunlight to fuel thei.r growth. Sometimes you just have to let them do their thing

 

[megahot]

Good call about the nutes already being in the soil.

 

[ProjectMayhem]

Seems like the consensus is light height. Thanks for the quick feedback everyone
 
Here's a wider angle pic so you can see the current light height:

 
I'm definitely going to drop it down and probably add a second T5 to make sure the full tray is covered.
 
I hadn't cosidered the heat pad. I did leave it on for about a week after the initial sprout so I guess I may have damaged them a bit at that stage. As far as ambient temperature it's hard for me to say. I'm in an apartment and there's no thermostat in my unit and I don't have a thermometer. I always find myself too hot in here though, I'd put it at about 23C (73.4F).
 
I had read lots of warnings about over fertilizing so I was definitely aware of its dangers and wanted to avoid it. I only dosed with fertilizers as a last resort once it was obvious the existing setup was failing. But now I know it was a light issue.
 
I'm really leaning towards starting over now. I'm worried the damage has been done to these guys in terms of stunted growth plus I have some fresh seeds in the mail now. Hopefully by the end of the summer I'll be posting shots of a big harvest!

 

[jblo]

I had my seedlings stall out recently and, per the recommendations of others on the forum, I transplanted into potting soil in solo cups a few days ago and it's like someone turned a switch on. They're growing great now and are noticeably bigger after only a few days. Granted, mine weren't as leggy.

 

[birdfather]

i wouldn't abandon your grow. those plants are fine. just a little leggy. just pot those up but bury them till they're about an inch tall from the soil. they should grow fine. those look like healthy seedlings to me. DO NOT ABANDON! KEEP THE PLANTS! THEY ARE FINE!!!!

 

[Peptacular]

I agree with birdfeather. You've come this far, might as well let it ride.

 

[ProjectMayhem]

Well that's surprising yet very welcome news. I really wasn't looking forward to starting over. I'm going to find some better soil and plant them in some pots with a better lighting situation and see what happens. I like the idea of burying them to compensate for the legginess.
 
Guess I'll just save the extra seeds for next season.

 

[heatofmiami]

Seems like the consensus is light height. Thanks for the quick feedback everyone
 
Here's a wider angle pic so you can see the current light height:

 
I'm definitely going to drop it down and probably add a second T5 to make sure the full tray is covered.
 
I hadn't cosidered the heat pad. I did leave it on for about a week after the initial sprout so I guess I may have damaged them a bit at that stage. As far as ambient temperature it's hard for me to say. I'm in an apartment and there's no thermostat in my unit and I don't have a thermometer. I always find myself too hot in here though, I'd put it at about 23C (73.4F).
 
I had read lots of warnings about over fertilizing so I was definitely aware of its dangers and wanted to avoid it. I only dosed with fertilizers as a last resort once it was obvious the existing setup was failing. But now I know it was a light issue.
 
I'm really leaning towards starting over now. I'm worried the damage has been done to these guys in terms of stunted growth plus I have some fresh seeds in the mail now. Hopefully by the end of the summer I'll be posting shots of a big harvest!
 
 

 
They are streeeeeetching for that light.. They look healthy though , It will take longer to start over than to just get those sexy ladys back to health

 

[PHB]

Imo your neon is way too high from the top of the plants.

A good T5 produce between 70 -100 lm/watt, so if yours is, let say, around 35w, it should be around 3500 lm at 30cm (11"). But a plant need between 25000 - 30000 lm to grow in good condition which is like 10 times the light intensity you got with a T5. So if I were you I would divide the distance by 10 and put it around 3cm (1.2") from top of plant. Fluo produce almost no heat so it shouldn't be a problem. The only problem is that you will have to adjust the height of the T5 according to plant's height.

You might think it doesn't make a big difference and that plant do grow under 5K lm. Yes they do grow but slower. A lot more slowly. My peppers in my cupboard under 25K lm grow 2 times faster than those I have on my balcony which receive only between 6K - 16K lm from sun (window facing NE, 2nd floor, Paris, cloudy).
 

 
 
 
Edit : just to give you an idea of the difference it makes
 
 

 
These two plants grow under the exact same condition (soil, fert, watering, etc. check my glog), the only difference is that the one one the right is at my window edge and the one on the left under my CFL. They were about the same size when I moved the one on the right at my window edge 10 days ago.

 

[Darthpepper]

Do not under any circumstances cull your babies. Give them a chance. No matter what, starting over is a step backwards. I had the same light issue. I simply didn't have any. Check out my glog. It's nothing fancy, but you can see the difference the light makes.

http://thehotpepper.com/topic/38904-dp-and-rks-first-season-glog/

 

[ProjectMayhem]

Salut PHB. Merci beaucoup pour vos conseils. That diagram and your plant comparison really drive the point home for me. That's a very interesting experiment you have going there, what made you decide to do it? Did you purposely want to examine the effect of light intensity on your plants or did you just not have enough space in your grow cupboard? Either way, it really illustrates the light issue everyone has been raising.
 
Darth, looks like your grow has been quite the journey. I'm jealous of the number of strains you have going man! I'll be keeping an eye on your glog for sure. Keep up the good work!

 

[PHB]

Salut PHB. Merci beaucoup pour vos conseils. That diagram and your plant comparison really drive the point home for me. That's a very interesting experiment you have going there, what made you decide to do it? Did you purposely want to examine the effect of light intensity on your plants or did you just not have enough space in your grow cupboard? Either way, it really illustrates the light issue everyone has been raising.
 

 
De rien !
 
It's just because I didn't have enough space in my cupboard to fit them all But that makes a good accidental experiment
 
I think there are 3 main factors for plants growing which are :
- light
- water & nutrients
- root oxygen
 
There are plenty of others of course.
 
We usually think of water & nutrients, but we usually forget light optimisation & O² for roots. I discovered recently the amazing results you can get trough "true aeroponic growing" (HPA & AAA) and how the root mass affect the plant growth. Plants are just like iceberg : the most interesting part (imo) is underground.
 
Next season I will try to run a test comparing "normal growing" (into soil) and HPA or AAA (if I can afford it). I think the results will be awesome just looking at what people have already done so far.