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fermenting Vacuum bag fermentation

Siv

Extreme Member
I just watched this Chillichump video:
And then a couple more on vacuum bag fermentation:
https://youtu.be/46_uxveHZ4w
 
So I went and bought a vacuum bagger! This seems such an easy way to ferment, much more so than messing with airlocks, stirring etc.
 
Take your peppers, chop roughly, add 2% salt by weight and vacuum bag. Seems like an almost fool proof way of fermenting. I'm wondering why this is not more commonly known? I think it came from the Noma guide to fermentation.
 

skullbiker

Extreme Member
sobelri said:
 
So just to be clear, when you use the jars it's just peppers and salt?  No water or brine?  
 
I do not add any water or brine to my pepper ferments. I generally use thicker walled peppers but not always. I buzz them to liquid in my blender with salt, brown sugar, and a little garlic.
 
Here they are 2 months or more after starting the ferment.
 
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This was later just before cooking to stop ferment. See the start date on the jar.
 
F3EF6823-7F7B-4B85-9973-E0F3BD5B6EA6.jpeg
 

Siv

Extreme Member
@skullbiker, I have a white ghost mash that looks very similar to your far left jar - darker at the top. Is this anything to worry about?
 

skullbiker

Extreme Member
Siv said:
@skullbiker, I have a white ghost mash that looks very similar to your far left jar - darker at the top. Is this anything to worry about?
I would not worry. Usually all my lighter colored ferments get that look but when ready to cook and mixed is always fine for me. I can usually see it in the red ones to but it is not as noticeable.
 
skullbiker said:
I would not worry. Usually all my lighter colored ferments get that look but when ready to cook and mixed is always fine for me. I can usually see it in the red ones to but it is not as noticeable.
^ Same here.

Skullbiker, do you ever have any mold/yeast issues, leaving that much headspace in those jars? I usually fill mine up to the "neck" of the jar. Thought process being: less oxygen to be pushed out by the CO2 (reaches anaerobic environment quicker) = lesser chance for the "nasties" (yeast/mold) to show up
 

skullbiker

Extreme Member
MikeUSMC said:
^ Same here.

Skullbiker, do you ever have any mold/yeast issues, leaving that much headspace in those jars? I usually fill mine up to the "neck" of the jar. Thought process being: less oxygen to be pushed out by the CO2 (reaches anaerobic environment quicker) = lesser chance for the "nasties" (yeast/mold) to show up
I only had mold one time, early on using those covers, I opened one and stirred it. Other than that I just put what I have in whatever clean jar is available, then take the hand vacuum pump that comes with the covers and pump the air out........no air is no mold. There is a one way check valve on the cover that holds vacuum but lets pressure out. So, as the ferment goes it fills the airspace(so far has not mattered for me)with co2. I think the advantage is starting the ferment under a vacuum(virtually no air).
 

Siv

Extreme Member
Here's my white ghost mash in August when started and now:
 
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This is my first year fermenting. Of five jarred ferments, one went bad and I threw it out - it was very sad as it was about 80% of my harvest of Bahamian Goats since the plant died when I was on vacation. I'm going to do vacuum bag ferments from now on, they seem to be foolproof.
 
Walchit said:
I would cut the bag with some extra room for expansion. But I also worry about plastic. I know a lot of guys vacuum seal their BBQ and then heat it up in a pot of water. I'm pretty sure they are BPA free, but what chemicals they do have I'm not sure.
 
Funny thing about BPA is that it's the plasticizer we know most about in terms of toxicity. It's that understanding of toxicity that has villified BPA. In "BPA-free" plastics, BPA has just been replaced with other plasticizers whose toxicicty is less understood. Doesn't make it safer. It's just gambling. 
 
Unfortunately, plastics manufacturers are allowed broad authority to put whatever the hell they want into their resins. To qualify as food safe from the FDA or other regulatory bodies, they have to reveal their resin content, but only to the regulators, not to the consumer. The "food safe" regulations are regrettably pretty loose. This is why pharmaceutical manufacturers usually have to do actual leachable and extractable studies on their containers, even when they are considered food safe. Food manufacturers don't do this, even though food containers are more likely to be exposed to extremes in pH, oil content, and temperature than drug containers. It's totally backwards. The disparity between food and drug regulation, particularly in regards to containers and impurities/adulterants, is obscene. Food regulations are dangerously loose.
 
Anyway, using the vacuum bags for pepper fermentation is likely to be safe relative to other uses of vacuum bags. Sou vide is a good example, where the elevated temperatures greatly accelerate the leaching of plasticizes and other resin ingredients into food.
 
pH changes are rarely an issue because most resin ingredients are not acids or bases.
 
Oil is an issue because plasticizers and other leachables are typically very fat soluble. Again, not so much an issue for pepper fermentation.
 
BTW I was also inspired by ChilliChump's vid, and plan to finish my vacuum bag Bahamian Goat/Brainstrain/BTR Scorpion ferment next weekend :)
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
 
Recent studies suggest that BPA exposure from thermal paper receipts may be greater than that from food. BPA is more readily absorbed through skin than through the digestive system due to its very low water solubility.
 
Walchit said:
My buddy quit feeding his kid dyes and all off his behavioral problems diminished. They put shit in our food and drink that they know causes problems, I would say its on purpose, lets big pharma keep making money to pump even more chemicals into us.

You have to have a high paying job to afford not to eat the shit though. Guess I'm just a broke guinea pig
 
Big pharma is not responsible for the chemicals in the food supply or in food containers. Other than Bayer, pharma is not widely involved in the agrichem business. Pharma is much, much more highly regulated and must demonstrate that drug containers do not leach dangerous chemicals into drugs. They also have to demonstrate extremely high levels of purity and stability in drug products.
 
Food suppliers do not do this.
 
This is dangerous because we consume food by the pound and drugs by the milligram to gram. The food supply exposes us to vastly, almost incomparably, greater amounts of mystery toxicants through an essentially unregulated supply chain.
 
I tried this just after thanksgiving with some leftover veggies and some frozen blackberries and raspberries ive had in the freezer for a long time. I mixed each with a little caldwells starter before throwing in bag and sealing. I've never really fermented much fruit because i thought it would just turn into alcohol, the cucumbers were really hard to get a seal on because as soon as salt is added it starts to release so much water. Fermented all for about a week and a half. The fruit also swelled like a balloon, you can see in one of the pictures below. I got so nervous i put in a garbage sack for the last two days just in case. Never did pop though. 
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End results...I really liked the veggies, they came out pickled nicely, the fruit did have kind of a salty, sour, wine taste to them. I was'nt sure what to do with them but eating them straight was not an option. I ended up mixing a little with some hot sauce and some with a vinegar/oil dressing and both came out really well. still aging in my fridge right now and ill continue experimenting with it.
 
Blended up my first vacuum bag ferment last night. It was a month-long ferment of a mix of Sugar Rush Peach, Bahamian Goat, Scotch Bonnet, BTR Scorpion, red Brainstrain, Fatalii, and Aji Fantasy. It's so hot it's nearly unuseable, but the flavor is absolutely outstanding. The reduced salt and absence of brine gives so much flexibility. I added more vinegar than normal to the blend, but the final product wasn't sour at all. The flavor is remarkably sweet. Even my wife, who doesn't like super spicy food, did not like the heat of this sauce but commented that the flavor was very special.
 
I am in love with this technique. Wondering if I'll use my fermenting jars anymore...
 

Siv

Extreme Member
Same - the vacuum bag makes like so much easier. I'm gonna do some carrots - I have a bunch of purple carrots that I planted last year and have been wondering what to do with them.
 
On a somewhat related note, I saw this video:
And now have a bunch of garlic heads in vacuum bags sitting in my dehydrator at 140F.
 
skullbiker said:
 
I do not add any water or brine to my pepper ferments. I generally use thicker walled peppers but not always. I buzz them to liquid in my blender with salt, brown sugar, and a little garlic.
 
Here they are 2 months or more after starting the ferment.
 
 
 
This was later just before cooking to stop ferment. See the start date on the jar.
 
 
great looking ferments!
 
how well do you like that blender? I got one on sale at xmas but haven't tried it yet.
 
Siv said:
 
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Took the photo last night. This morning, the bag has visibly more gas in it. Looks like the heat is working!
Did it ever puff up and was fermentation successful?
 
I have some salted mash 1 week in to being vac sealed and haven't gotten any puffing yet either.
 

skullbiker

Extreme Member
BDASPNY said:
great looking ferments!
 
how well do you like that blender? I got one on sale at xmas but haven't tried it yet.
Well, this post flew right over my head.........about 4 months ago.
Anyway, to answer your question..........I LOVE MY INSTANT POT ACE BLENDER, it may not be the best blender for everything but for what I use it for it is the KING.
 
skullbiker said:
Well, this post flew right over my head.........about 4 months ago.
Anyway, to answer your question..........I LOVE MY INSTANT POT ACE BLENDER, it may not be the best blender for everything but for what I use it for it is the KING.
that's ok, thanks for responding.  I still haven't tried it.   back surgery really put me behind on things.
 
 
what have you used it for?
 

skullbiker

Extreme Member
BDASPNY said:
that's ok, thanks for responding.  I still haven't tried it.   back surgery really put me behind on things.
 
 
what have you used it for?
About 95% of my use has been to finalize my fermented sauces. I dump it in there, put the cover on, and hit the soup button twice. It heats it to 212° while intermittently giving the contents a little swirl and then the last few minutes it blends at high speed. It is something like a 22 minute cycle. Just lately I have been using the pre-programed pulse cycle to blend up the Mangos.
I hope your back heals up good for you, aching back is the worst.
 

Siv

Extreme Member
UnNatural said:
Did it ever puff up and was fermentation successful?
 
I have some salted mash 1 week in to being vac sealed and haven't gotten any puffing yet either.
 
Hah! I totally forgot about that ferment. I stuck it in a corner and forgot about it. It didn't puff up at all; here's what it looks like now!
 
IMG_0483.JPG

 
Should I open it???
 
Siv said:
 
Hah! I totally forgot about that ferment. I stuck it in a corner and forgot about it. It didn't puff up at all; here's what it looks like now!
 
attachicon.gif
IMG_0483.JPG
 
Should I open it???
Doesn't look like anything happened. Looks more like you managed to salt-cure it than salt ferment it.
 
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