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Who truly thinks OP means isolated?

N

neoguy

The title says it all. But, I have to add that a lot of beginners receiving seeds think they are receiving seed from OP NON Isolated plants are going to receive true. I'll bet only about 50% growing true.
 
Tomato seed cross probably less than 5-10%
 
Pepper seed cross 50+%
 
I'd like to hear from from others about this.
 
I think terms such as "Commercial", "isolated" 'not isolated" used when trading seeds.
 
JoynersHotPeppers said:
All of my seeds are OP that I self harvest and unless they (the plant/pods) look untrue I treat them as true. 
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     Is your operation big enough that you have separate plots for your different varieties, or are your plants pretty close together? I'm just wondering if you think someone (like myself) who grows many different varieties close together in raised beds would have any luck saving true seed. Or are there just too many variables involved to be able to predict with any confidence?
     A cross here or there would be OK, but if I saved seed and got unwanted crosses a quarter of the time I would be disappointed.
 
I grow in my yard at a very small scale. I rarely have crosses but others will chime in I am sure. Many of my plants touch each other but I would have to save that pod that crossed and harvest its seed. It is not like the whole plant is now a cross with its pods. 
 
JoynersHotPeppers said:
Many of my plants touch each other but I would have to save that pod that crossed and harvest its seed. It is not like the whole plant is now a cross with its pods. 
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     I understand that. If hybridization occurs, it won't do anything to change either of the parent plants or their fruit, just the genetics of the seeds. 
     So are you saying that even your plants that are touching are mostly reliable for producing true seed? Thanks for the help!
     And to the OP, In case you haven't guessed, I don't save seed specifically for the reason you mentioned. Maybe that'll change this year, though.  :think:
 
Again, OP doesn't really mean anything in regards to isolation. Tomatoes and peppers are OP, they don't need a male or female to fert, they self fert. 
 
     Sorry I got your thread off topic back there...
     Now that I think about it, it would be very helpful if seed purveyors made the distinction between "isolated" and "not-isolated". When I first started getting serious in gardening, it always bugged me when a big seed company like Burpee or Johnny's referred to a seed as "OP". Maybe they're just assuming that it's understood that each variety of their seed plants are isolated from each other. In that context, I guess "open pollenated" is an acceptable label.  I guess it's just their way of saying "not a hybrid"...
     But in the context of a smaller seed producer or a hobby grower who doesn't have whole fields of seed crops that are separated by miles of other vegetation, I think "isolated" vs "non-isolated" is a much more useful term. I think in our community it's fairly obvious when you buy or are given seeds that they are not an intentional hybrid unless specifically stated. Here, it's pretty much assumed that the seeds you're getting are OP, and the distinction between isolated or not probably should be made.
     If I had very limited garden space and I was growing only a few plants of a variety, I would really want them to grow true. Knowing whether or not the person I got seeds from took appropriate steps to ensure isolation would be very useful information. 
 
neoguy said:
Tomatoes and peppers are OP, they don't need a male or female to fert, they self fert. 
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     I may be mistaken, but here it sounds like you are confusing "OP vs. not" with "monoecious vs. dioecious". Peppers and tomatoes are monoecious, meaning their flowers are "perfect" or "bisexual". They still need a male and a female for fertilization, but both organs are contained in each flower on every plant. Thus, they have the capability to pollenate themselves.
     As opposed to dioecious plants, like cannabis and ginkgoes which cannot self-pollenate; there needs to be a male plant present to pollenate a female plant. 
 
dash 2 said:
     I may be mistaken, but here it sounds like you are confusing "OP vs. not" with "monoecious vs. dioecious". Peppers and tomatoes are monoecious, meaning their flowers are "perfect" or "bisexual". They still need a male and a female for fertilization, but both organs are contained in each flower on every plant. Thus, they have the capability to pollenate themselves.
     As opposed to dioecious plants, like cannabis and ginkgoes which cannot self-pollenate; there needs to be a male plant present to pollenate a female plant. 
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FYI there are also perfect flowers that are self-infertile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incompatibility_in_plants
 
Just learned this recently.
When you see a F1 hybrid from one of the huge companies, they usually have created a male sterile variety. They then grow it with the other parent in the cross, which is fertile, together in a field. Collect seeds from the male sterile plants and sale. It's the most efficient way to make a hybrid on a large scale for seeds.
That is also why some saved seeds from F1 hybrids, especially with tomatoes, do not produce well or at all, from having a sterile parent.
They also can produce the same F1 over and over each year with cuttings of the male sterile grown again with the fertile variety.

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