breeding Why is cross pollinating peppers so damn hard for me?

Sarg3

Sarg3

Tried a handful of times over the last couple weeks and failure each time.  Not sure if I am emasculating flowers on the mother too early or what?  They're not opened yet at all but still might be too early for the ones I have chosen.  The day or two after I attempt it the pistil just falls off. I have tried spreading the polling via brush, q-tip and even tapping the fathers flower from above the females flower, which is easily to see the pollen all around and hitting the pistil. So I know I am transferring the pollen right.  The tapping method makes it obvious I am hitting it with pollen. 
 
Once I have emasculated and pollinated I put an organza bag over the the flowers to avoid any other pollen getting to it. 
 
I believe I am emasculating too young of flowers though and next time I will try to pollinate a flower that is barely open.  Being new however, how does differentiate opening flowers from those closing that have already been pollinated? Has to be a difference, right? Don't flowers that have been pollinated slowly close shut as it's working its magic on pod making or does it remain open the entire time?  Half open flowers for instance.  How do you know if it's opening or closing? 
 
I believe I find the genetics and history of peppers more interesting than the peppers themselves.  Odd? lol
 
Chile flowers don't close again once they have opened up.  As far as your crossing attempts, even if you are absolutely positive you've gotten the pollen on the pistil it does not mean that the cross will take. You can emasculate 100 flowers and you may get 10 or less that actually take. Sometimes mother nature just doesn't want it to happen. Another factor is natural flower drop, there are all kinds of things that cause the plants to drop flowers.
 
 
As far as the flowers you have tried to cross, I know that you can do it too early. I don't know the exact time but it does take a bit for the flower to "mature." I always do it when the flower looks swollen (that's the best word I know to describe it) right before it opens. It's also much easier to take the petals off for some reason, I'm guessing because they're bigger or something.
 
Anyways, just keep trying and don't give up. Sometimes you can do everything to perfection and the universe says "nope, not today"
 
That helps a lot Coheed thank you for posting. I have countless flowers on a butch t that appear half open but yea I wasn't sure if they were opening or closing.  So when pollination is successful they stay open the entire time until the petals fall off?
 
I am definitely going to keep trying.  I have what I think is a pretty awesome cross that I'd like to try next year.  I haven't noticed any one crossing the one variety and while it's not a huge favorite of growers I think what I have planned will work well. Even have the name ready to rock if all goes well over the next X amount of years. Right now my attempts are for fun and I won't be growing any of the crosses out.  Just practice.

like all of these flowers for instance. Going by that, none of these have opened up 100% yet?  Looks like the one is dying
 
dhVE14E.jpg
 
are you putting the pollen on the pistil after the flower opens? that may be your problem if so

nvm read your post again, you obviously are not.
 
I'll go grab a pic of what the unopened flower has looked like when I emasculate.  Pretty sure I am just choosing them too early.  BRB

Here you go.  this is exactly how the flowers on the mother I have been emasculating look like.  I have been wondering if it's too early since what will be the petals are still a bit green.
 
xu6BKXU.jpg
 
Browning said:
I'll go grab a pic of what the unopened flower has looked like when I emasculate.  Pretty sure I am just choosing them too early.  BRB

Here you go.  this is exactly how the flowers on the mother I have been emasculating look like.  I have been wondering if it's too early since what will be the petals are still a bit green.
 
 
Click to expand...
 
This looks fine. However some varieties are more touchy than others. If you have time to check often you could wait until the petals just start splitting. At least for chinense, it should still not have had a chance of self-pollinating at that stage.
 
IMG_2675_zpsb13a731a.jpg

Sorry, not a super picture. It's midnight here, so not easy to make a good shot.
 
idk man it took me about a dozen flowers that looked just like your green one there to get an annuum to take another annuum.
 
I was shocked when it actually made a pod...I noticed it took longer to form than the normal pods (or maybe I was just paying way too much attention to it) hopefully I'll have some Anaheim X Thais, I'm working on germinating them now, no luck so far.  I have visions in my mind of giant Anaheim sized thai pods sticking straight up in the air, but you never know :D
 
I tried several times this year to cross a annum with a chinense without success. My story is the same as yours. I plucked the petals off when the flower looked like that and pollinated it. two days later the flower dropped off of the plant. It is getting a little late in the year to start setting pods so I might try again next year. 
 
In my case, I wanted the annum as the parent plant. 
 
Does it matter which gets chosen as the mother or just choose the bigger healthier of the two?  I have to find any info on reasons why to chose plant A as the mother rather than B.  Is it in hopes it takes after the mother more than the father?
 
I think you might be doing it too early. I wait for the petals to be all white. If it doesn't stick to the stigma (look with hand lens), then it's too early. What you could do is take the anthers out and leave the petals. Then you can check the following days to see when they start opening. You have to have a good eye for knowing when the flowers are going to open the next day (this is how I do it and I can tell from looking at them so much, lol). A professor at my college, who specializes in capsicum, suggested I emasculate in the evening and do the cross the next day when the anthers open up. that seems like good advice and probably the most optimal combined with predicting the flower will open the next day, but I just do it all at the same time, because I don't want to bother making trips to the school twice (I'm an alumni there).
 
That aside, there isn't really anything else you can do about it. I wonder if some of the flower pollen is dead or infertile, so I pollinate using more than one flower for pollen on each stigma. A lot of my flowers drop. That's to be expected, so it's good to do 6 or so at a time.
 
 
Edit: It's tough to cross, but with experience you will get much better. You also have to be gentle with the style. I grab flowers, with open anthers, and rub the pollen from the slit in the anther on the stigma. Then I confirm that the pollen stuck to the stigma. If it doesn't stick, it won't work. Perhaps try the next day if it doesn't stick.
 
Interesting post thank you.  If I took the petals off and waited for the anthers to open up wouldn't it be too late and it would have pollinated itself?  That's another thing I worry about.  Being too late and not knowing until the following year whn I grow the seed out lol
 
Browning said:
Interesting post thank you.  If I took the petals off and waited for the anthers to open up wouldn't it be too late and it would have pollinated itself?  That's another thing I worry about.  Being too late and not knowing until the following year whn I grow the seed out lol
Click to expand...
 
 
Oh no, you take the anthers off rather than the petals. The optimal way seems to be to take the anthers off during the evening (with experience you can tell it will open the next day) when they are closed, and to pollinate in the morning or afternoon when the anthers are open. If you lack the experience, leaving the petals on can help let you know the stigma is ready to receive pollen by waiting for the flowers to open. Then when they open, you can do your pollination. Use a hand lens to check if the pollen stuck to the stigma. I think the best way is to take two or so flowers with open anthers off the father plant and pollinate the emasculated flower's stigma by rubbing the slits of the anthers on the stigma very carefully. 
 
Sorry if my post is unclear.
 
Just seems if I wait until the flower is open I've waited to long and self pollination has already occured.
 
Browning said:
Just seems if I wait until the flower is open I've waited to long and self pollination has already occured.
Click to expand...
 
It won't be able to self-pollinate if the anthers are removed. So, if you're worried about waiting too long, you could remove the anthers early and keep the petals intact to let you know when it's ready to receive pollen.
 
I managed to cross an annum and a chinense (I hope) this summer.  I had to try it a few times before it took.  But I did the same thing, wait till you have a flower that is just starting to split open and emasculate it.  I used a slightly damp q-tip to collect the donor pollen and pollinate the emasculated flower. I kept the emasculated flower isolated and tried pollinating it once a day for three days in a row to help improve my chances. I tried crossing it both ways and found that the chinense took the annum pollen better than the other way round, but that was just my experience.  I did find that the peppers that I crossed seem to be growing slower and are smaller than other pods on the plants and taking longer to ripen so I'll take that as a good sign.  But it took me about 2 weeks of trying before I got what I hope are positive results.
 
Is it normal for the pods to take longer to form?  If so that could be a good indicator of natural crosses too
 
Iam not sure but I read the same thing hapening on another thread here a day or two ago while doing a bunch of searches for cross, pollinate, pollination, etc loll
 
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