black veins on my paprika/bell pepper.

pwb · Aug 18, 2014

I have two paprika/bell pepper (do you say paprika or bell pepper?) and the leaves on them are getting black veins. New leaves dont have it, but it looks like they get it after some time. I have taken them out of my greenhous. I have hydrogen peroxide and copper hydroxide (cupro 5000). Could i use some of that to prevent this to spread to other plants, could it spread to other plants? I cant see that any of my chili have this black veins yet.

Scorched · Aug 19, 2014

I've been looking through all the pepper diseases and such and don't see anything that really fits. It may be nothing, maybe just superficial leaf marking/suntan. Keep an eye on it and update with any changes or if new symptoms occur. Just so we have more info, what is your fert schedule and what are you using? how often do you water and how wet is the soil? No other problems except the dark veins? have you had any pest problems on the plants with the dark veins (aphids, mites, etc) before the veins started turning?

pwb · Aug 19, 2014

I was using some tomato fert. NPK 14-4-21 but i got this (NPK: 14:10:27 plus trace elements) in the mail so i will be using that from now. I have been watering when the leaves hanging down and/or when the pot is light. I have been watering from everyday to 3 times a week, but i did find out that i have been giving to litle water, since the soil was very dry the water flows through fast so the soil didnt suck up enough water, when i did find out that for maybe a week ago i gave them much more water so the soil was realy wet, the next time the plant needed water i could give them more before the water flows through and i could wait 1-2 day longer before i had to water them. I have had some mites on some of the plants, but not this one as i could see. I did spray them with something that have oil and pyrethrins (i now have neem oil that i will use next time). This plant also did have edema when it was young. I also maybe had som lack of potassium since i did have som spots on some leaves on a plant (the biggest plant with lots of pods), but after i added some potassium chloride to my water i havent got any new spots on that plant, but i did give that water to all of my plants and all looks fine. But this black things on this plant have been there a long time so i dont think it was any mites or other bugs on that plant before it started to get black. All my chilli seed was from a dealer in Belgium and my paprika seed was some i did buy in my local garden store and i have two of this plants and they grow slow, could there be old seed?

Zoli · Aug 19, 2014

I don't think the seed's age matters. As it gets older it will have a lower chance to germinate but that is it, afaik.

Dave2000 · Aug 19, 2014

pwb said:
I have been watering when the leaves hanging down and/or when the pot is light. I have been watering from everyday to 3 times a week, but i did find out that i have been giving to litle water, since the soil was very dry the water flows through fast so the soil didnt suck up enough water, when i did find out that for maybe a week ago i gave them much more water so the soil was realy wet, the next time the plant needed water i could give them more before the water flows through and i could wait 1-2 day longer before i had to water them.

If the soil has shrank and pulled away from the sides of the pots, then add some soil to the sides, sloping upwards towards the pot walls. I'm not sure what you mean by not enough water otherwise, if it flows out the bottom that's a sign you either gave them too much water or watered too fast.

I'm suspecting that you had a lot of water running out the bottom that created too high a humidity level in the greenhouse and now have a fungus problem. Yes it could spread to other plants if touching or from wind, or raining onto soil then splashing up onto adjacent plants. I'd put some space between them and the plants that aren't affected.

The copper hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide seem like a good idea, then leave them out of the greenhouse where they get as much ventilation as possible, except if it is going to rain a lot. Try to water less each time so there's none seeping out the bottom of the pots, then water again when they droop. If weather permits you could also use a fan to air out the greenhouse, bring in outside air to dry it out faster and flush out some fungal spores.

pwb · Aug 19, 2014

ok, i have cupro 5000 , Dithane M-45 and Hydrogen Peroxide, I got some info on this forum how to use Hydrogen Peroxide, but how should i use cupro5000 and Dithane M-45 ?? I have never used any of them, but i could try it on this one plant to see if it helps. But i cant find any good information in how much and how to use it, it should be used as spray? but copper or dithane first or only one of them? Any suggestion would have been nice :-) I will use it in 1L spray can, but i can convert teaspoon etc and gallon.

btw: is cupro5000 and Dithane M-45 so toxic that if i got it on my skin i need to call a doctor?

Dave2000 · Aug 19, 2014

Cupro5000 ratio is around 5 grams (weight of a nickel coin) per gallon of water, sprayed on leaves.

DIthane M-45 ratio 14 grams (2 tablespoons) / gallon also sprayed.

Yes they're toxic. Don't breathe it or get it in your eyes. Wear gloves, goggles, stand upwind while spraying a coarse spray stream not a fine mist. It can be washed off skin immediately. Keep pets and kids away, etc. Wash peppers before eating. I don't have experience comparing the effectiveness between them so can't recommend one way or the other. The hydrogen peroxide is certainly *safer* to use but provides no residual benefit.

pwb · Aug 19, 2014

Dave2000 said:
Cupro5000 ratio is around 5 grams (weight of a nickle coin) per gallon of water, sprayed on leaves.

DIthane M-45 ratio 14 grams (2 tablespoons) / gallon also sprayed.

Yes they're toxic. Don't breathe it or get it in your eyes. Wear gloves, goggles, stand upwind while spraying a coarse spray stream not a fine mist. It can be washed off skin immediately. Keep pets and kids away, etc. Wash peppers before eating. I don't have experience comparing the effectiveness between them so can't recommend one way or the other. The hydrogen peroxide is certainly *safer* to use but provides no residual benefit.

ok, thanx. i then used 0,25g on 2DL water (i only need a litle to spray on one plant). Funny thing, the water was so green with only litle powder. I then sprayed that plant, now it outside to dry and i will take it inside after some time. But one more thing, i did spray that plant yesterday with hydrogen peroxide, today some of the leaves that was most black did change and fell of. The picture is of the leaves one day after i spray with hydrogen peroxide, it was more bigger black/brown/rust? color spots

Copper is preventive so the bacteria should not spread to healthy leaves? It dont fix the leaves? Does it kill the bacteria? If i remember correct i think i read in some post that svovel could be used to kill the bacteria? If it dont rain, how many days will the copper works (7-10 days?) and should i continue to remove infected leaves? Copper could be used until 1 day before harvest?

Dave2000 · Aug 19, 2014

Yes the copper will keep bacteria from taking hold but any damaged leaf areas may still be prone to reinfection. The leaves that are damaged too much will be aborted by the plant and fall off. The copper works practically instantaneously but the damage you see is the result of bacteria you can't see, it's not going away.

I don't think you are supposed to use either product within a few days of harvest but there is probably something in the instructions on the manufacturer website that mentions this.

Yes any leaves that lose a good shape, start or stay drooping should be removed. As for the rest it's a balance between helping the plant have a good energy level and avoiding the spread of the bacteria. Certainly you will have to treat the plants again after every rain if all the infected leaves aren't removed, or if humidity levels climb high, or watering the plants gets the leaves wet,

pwb · Aug 20, 2014

Dave2000 said:
Cupro5000 ratio is around 5 grams (weight of a nickel coin) per gallon of water, sprayed on leaves.

DIthane M-45 ratio 14 grams (2 tablespoons) / gallon also sprayed.

Yes they're toxic. Don't breathe it or get it in your eyes. Wear gloves, goggles, stand upwind while spraying a coarse spray stream not a fine mist. It can be washed off skin immediately. Keep pets and kids away, etc. Wash peppers before eating. I don't have experience comparing the effectiveness between them so can't recommend one way or the other. The hydrogen peroxide is certainly *safer* to use but provides no residual benefit.

you say "The hydrogen peroxide is certainly *safer* to use but provides no residual benefit" does that mean that i could use that almost safely on all my healty plants to kill bacterial that could have been transfered to them and that it just works at contact (as long the leaves are wet)? I have enough cupro to use on all my plants, but i would like to use as litle as possible since its toxic.

Dave2000 · Aug 20, 2014

I don't have experience spraying hydrogen peroxide on plants that look healthy, as a preventative measure. I have to default to the position of doing less, to not "help" a plant unless it looks like it needs it.

Then again you definitely have an issue so since you have enough cupro to do them all, it seems like it is time to use it or else there was no point in having it. I wouldn't worry about the toxicity too much, that's more about common sense when applying it than anything else.

Either way, the key to this is keeping the leaves dry (besides treatment) and accepting that eventually infected leaves will be lost.

pwb · Aug 20, 2014

Thanx for all help Dave :-)

scotchnaga85 · Aug 20, 2014

pwb said:
I have two paprika/bell pepper (do you say paprika or bell pepper?) and the leaves on them are getting black veins. New leaves dont have it, but it looks like they get it after some time. I have taken them out of my greenhous. I have hydrogen peroxide and copper hydroxide (cupro 5000). Could i use some of that to prevent this to spread to other plants, could it spread to other plants? I cant see that any of my chili have this black veins yet.

These look like they are suffering from a classic early stage phosphorus deficiency. Also taking in the fact you say it effects the older leafs, I'm definetly thinking it's a nutrient issue rather then pathogen.

Deficiencies of mobile nutrients such as phosphorus will show in older leafs first.

Dave2000 · Aug 20, 2014

^ You could be right about phosphorus deficiency BUT it looks to me like the result either way is fungus that needs dealt with too.

pwb · Aug 21, 2014

If it lacks phosphorus, could i use something like this?

pwb · Aug 22, 2014

ok, now the leaves are starting to fall off. The leaves that fall off has black veins and some have black spot, some of them also has holes in them, but its only the green surface thats gone, its looks like a hole but the "skeleton" of the leaves are there. The fresh/new leaves and/or leaves that are attach to the stem where there isnt any black spots (the top of a stem dont have any black spots or any bad leaves) dont fall off. Is this a result of the copper and that the plant are starting to get better?
The thing is that i have another plant (Malawi Bird's eye) where also lots of leaves fall off, that plant dont have any black spots. That plant grows fine and produce lots of nice pods. Is there something else that could be the problem, to much or to litle of something, would to litle phosphorus do that?

scotchnaga85 · Aug 22, 2014

You have by the sounds of it a completely messed up nutrient order in your soil. Stop trying to sort each individual nutrient disorder out and purchase some all round fruit & veg fert mix.

Leaves that are already damaged will fall even if the nutrient balance has been corrected. Low potassium will cause leaf drop big time, and it occasionally leave leafs with brown spots/ holes.

Also a poor nutrient balance in your pots will leave the plants more susceptible to attack by pathogens.

pwb · Aug 22, 2014

i got this some days ago and have used it in 1 watering ( bayergarden ) should i use that in every watering and how much, should i follow the container or tomato advice on the label?
I think i got a potassium problem, the first fert i used when it was moved out to the greenhouse and some time after was a liquid fert with only NP and humus, after some time i used some other tomato fert. After i got some spot on some leafs i got an advice that it could be potassium, i then used some 60ER KALI in two waterings (on all the plants) and the the plant with the spot problem (my biggest plant) looks much better. I used a teaspoon of that in 2,5 gallon water, i dont know if thats ok or to much or to litle.

The soil i have used is 75% standard potting soil with leca (for drain) and 25% soil for Rhododendron.