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fermenting Newbie Question: Mash hasn't expanded, fermentation problem?

I'm new to fermenting, but have made a few sauces that I *think* have been fermented, though there were few clear signs of it happening.
 
In my uninformed past, I've successfully made 2 jars of half-sour garlic pickles and 2 unsuccessful jars. The goods ones remained crisp and green, and the bad ones were dark green and soggy. I've got another jar going now (overnight, frankly) with Bay Leaves, and the brine is still clear. I'm optimistic, though I see no bubbles. They are in a large glass container with a flip-lid (the ones with the latch and orange seal.) and sitting on the counter. Do those jars have a name? I feel a bit silly calling them “flip-top jars with the orange seal."
 
I've also made Kimchi, following a very popular Korean YouTube channel's recipe, and it has been fine. I've made a few jars and have always been happy and healthy, though I’m not sure they have been fermented. That recipe’s process was straightforward. The cabbage was soaked in salt water, mixed with my kimchi paste (flakes, sugar, salt, fish sauce, green opinions and garlic) and jarred. The cabbage let its water out, shrunk in size, created a brine and remained crunchy. While it was on the counter (though I’m not sure it actually fermented) I would rotate and spin the jar to distribute the brine. I would begin eating it almost right away, and continued doing so for weeks.
 
But it's the hot pepper mash that has me a bit confused. I've made a pepper sauce (not fermented) with peppers, salt, garlic, sugar, and rice-wine vinegar that went immediately into a jar and onto my plate. It's been fine in the fridge for months. But over the past few months I've been exposed to the notion of fermenting, so I'm giving it a try.
 
The peppers were mashed up in a food processor with garlic, a couple tablespoons of sea salt and a large pinch of sugar. It then went into a small mason jar with a plastic fermenting lid that has a little pop-up valve. Herein lies the question: I’ve seen videos and read reports of both seeing bubbles and having an expanded mash in as little as 24 hours. That has not been the case with me. It is important to note the I have not weighed any of my ingredients. Given the wildly variable recommendations for salt-to-weight ratios, and the notion that the digital scales were not available to  millions of fermenters over the past thousand years, my idea was to simply use a reasonable amount and expect a variable length ferment time.
 
Should I expect all successful ferments to expand and fizz? If the little expanding nub on my fermenting lid doesn’t pop up, is that a sure sign of failure? My plan, like always, is to let this sit on the counter for a week, stir occasionally, and then mix with some vinegar before putting it in the fridge. While I’m sure that this should be safe, I’d like to think that I’m getting all the flavour and pro-biotic benefits of fermenting. Am I?
 
Hello, welcome to THP fellow newbie  :welcome:
 
 
Your first mash ferment is similar to my recent first mash experience.

What I learned from basically doing exactly what you did.

With out some kind of fermentation starter or culture the mash will ferment with just the salt, but at a slower rate. I let my first quart jar mash go 3 weeks. One week is not enough time for just using salt.

Without a starter...whey, probiotic additive, or other starter you may or may not see the bubbles build up, but give it more time...the mash should change in appearance and eventually you will see the change. Environment, temps,ingredients, location can all have different effects on a ferment.

I would let it set at least the 3 weeks or up to 30 days. I bet you will notice changes.

If the mash is generating a liquid in the jar and you are getting separation of the fluid and mash it is working.
 
Don't be in a hurry...l was. Let it do it's thing, you will be glad you did.

Look up buddy's ferments 2016 in the sauce making forum for some inspiration, check out the pinned topics on fermentation and sauce making 101 threads.


I have 2 half gallon mashes 6 days old now using just salt and mash....:I noticed this morning a few tiny air bubbles hugging the glass perimeter....success, my mash has entered the fermentation process, but no active bubbling yet or mash rising in the jar, but it has indeed started.

I am shooting for 90 days.

Give more time...I think you're fine.
 
Thank you very much... My sense is that it simply had to be working, just at a slower rate than I had thought. Fermentation seems too simple, and the process too old for a simple dichotomous answer like yes or no; good or bad. It's really all a matter of fermentation rate and time. That's what I'm beginning to think.
 
The jar will go into the cupboard, away from my prying impatient attention. It's clear that it will eventually ferment over the coming weeks.
 
Do you recommend that I cover the mash with a cabbage leaf, as Buddy has done?
 
MarkinLondon said:
Thank you very much... My sense is that it simply had to be working, just at a slower rate than I had thought. Fermentation seems too simple, and the process too old for a simple dichotomous answer like yes or no; good or bad. It's really all a matter of fermentation rate and time. That's what I'm beginning to think.
 
The jar will go into the cupboard, away from my prying impatient attention. It's clear that it will eventually ferment over the coming weeks.
 
Do you recommend that I cover the mash with a cabbage leaf, as Buddy has done?
 
Both of my 1/2 gallons have the cabbage leaves....what buddy does is also add a brine to submerge his ferments.
 
I did not so my mash looks plenty different from his.  You can see pics of my on going results in the never ending thread same page as buddy's.
(I am following his thread daily and have asked questions along the way...I hope to have similar success as his )
 
My next mash...might start it today will include the cabbage leaves and the brine to cover as well for a side by side comparison.
 
I had about half a quart of mash left over from each half gallon so I made two small batches just like yours...one with leaves, one without. again no brine.
 
The one without leaves looks shiny/glossy and noticeable changes are happening....The other small jar with the leaves I didn't like the look of the leaves and thought maybe it would promote mold so I pulled them out last night....thus pushing me in the direction to add a brine in the future to cover the leaves and mash.
 
I would let yours go just like it is.....make changes to your next mash as needed.
 
Get a cheap food scale that weighs in grams...huge help in making mash and calculating the recipe and salt.
 
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