New Setup... Hots

qandeel · Sep 28, 2017

interesting. subscribed.

Isn't it a bit costly for just 2 plants, including the operating cost?

AndyW · Sep 28, 2017

I'm looking forward to seeing this develop, as I've thought about doing something similar

MNXR250R · Sep 28, 2017

qandeel said:
interesting. subscribed.

Isn't it a bit costly for just 2 plants, including the operating cost?

Yes it is costly. More than I could ever hope to recover ! Over the last year I have bought a lot of equipment. Some of it sits on the shelf and doesn't get used for one reason or another. I like to buy new toys for my hobbies. I should see a counselor and get professional help

This whole setup is really just an experiment. This is the third attempt at completely controlling the internal environment of this small tent. I've tried venting with fans, pumping cool air in, even had a sort of heat exchanger installed. Humidity has been the challenge. By sucking the heat out, so too goes the humidity. I added humidifiers which helped, but I couldn't vent the tent without taking out the humidity.

In this setup I am more or less ignoring the internal temperature of the tent, and concentrating on keeping the nutrients and the roots cool. Not unlike a midsummer day when the moist soil keeps the roots cool, and the leaf temperature can go crazy, especially in the direct sunlight.

Will it work ? Sure I think so. Is it economical ? Hell no !!

The light for this system is a HydroFarm 315W CMH, 3100K

Jeff

KAOS · Sep 28, 2017

Since your mission is to keep the roots cool (and the fact that you like toys - like me :party:

), have you considered installing a small chiller in your water system ...

qandeel · Sep 28, 2017

Thanks Jeff. I hope it really works out for you. Please keep us posted. It will be very interesting to follow up the progress and the results.

MNXR250R said:
Yes it is costly. More than I could ever hope to recover ! Over the last year I have bought a lot of equipment. Some of it sits on the shelf and doesn't get used for one reason or another. I like to buy new toys for my hobbies. I should see a counselor and get professional help

This whole setup is really just an experiment. This is the third attempt at completely controlling the internal environment of this small tent. I've tried venting with fans, pumping cool air in, even had a sort of heat exchanger installed. Humidity has been the challenge. By sucking the heat out, so too goes the humidity. I added humidifiers which helped, but I couldn't vent the tent without taking out the humidity.

In this setup I am more or less ignoring the internal temperature of the tent, and concentrating on keeping the nutrients and the roots cool. Not unlike a midsummer day when the moist soil keeps the roots cool, and the leaf temperature can go crazy, especially in the direct sunlight.

Will it work ? Sure I think so. Is it economical ? Hell no !!

The light for this system is a HydroFarm 315W CMH, 3100K

Jeff

Gorizza · Sep 28, 2017

MNXR250R said:
After all, until two weeks ago, I thought that the Ghost peppers originated in India.

what are you suggesting?

MNXR250R · Sep 28, 2017

Gorizza said:
what are you suggesting?

In the case of the Bhut Jolokia we all know and love, it actually comes from east-central Mexico. At least it did at the time of Columbus and other early explorers.

Granted the pepper we get from India today does have its own unique character, but the point is that I though it originated in India, when in fact it was Mexico. Who Knew ??

Jeff

MNXR250R · Sep 28, 2017

KAOS said:
Since your mission is to keep the roots cool (and the fact that you like toys - like me ), have you considered installing a small chiller in your water system ...

I've seen those systems and am curious. Can you tell me if a small system would cool 10 gallons of solution that sit inside of a 90 degF tent ? If yes then I'll look into it. But I have also read that they are not very powerful, and I'd possibly have to make several of them. If that were the case I would prefer buy a chiller, and concentrate work on the water/nutrient pumping system. That is the part that I am most interested these days.... pumps and bubbles !!!

Thanks for the reply KAOS.

Jeff

MNXR250R · Sep 28, 2017

Plants in the new system. I'll post any major changes, but I won't update regularly unless somebody asks.

Carolina Reaper

Bhut Jolokia

It seems that both the Reaper and the Bhut gained some yellow mottle after the transplant. I'm ignoring that for now. Buds are starting to show as well.

I still don't have a nutrient chiller system installed. At this point I'm waiting for the fall to move into winter so I can pull in the cool Minnesota Winter air in to my grow system. Right now I'm dealing with fairly high temperature in the tent (85-90degF) and have no active cooling system for the nutrient solution. The nutrient solution temperature is (79-81degF). I would like to have the nutrient solution in the low to mid 70's degF.

I have one more grow bucket to fill in this tent. I'm trying to germinate Jalapeno seeds that I pulled from this years harvest. Too soon ? I don't know. I let them sit in ripe (red) pods for 30 days, then opened the pods to dry the seeds fully for a week. Advise ?

Currently the only air that I have to work with is the outside air. Some days I can get good humid air, while other days the humidity is very low (38%RH). I am still working on this system and my goal is to have 70-80%RH. Once I have a reliable method for cooling the nutrient solution, I will let the internal tent temperature increase to whatever it wishes to be. I will (not yet) have a small humidifier installed to keep the humidity around 70%RH, and this should help keep the internal temperature of the tent down.... maybe only a few degrees but still... I will also be sure to allow CO2 to enter the system. Not sure yet if I will have to actively add CO2. I hope not !!

Anyway, comments form experienced tent growers would be appreciated !!

Happy Growing !

Jeff

Gorizza · Sep 28, 2017

MNXR250R said:
In the case of the Bhut Jolokia we all know and love, it actually comes from east-central Mexico. At least it did at the time of Columbus and other early explorers.

Granted the pepper we get from India today does have its own unique character, but the point is that I though it originated in India, when in fact it was Mexico. Who Knew ??

Jeff

Oh, yeah that was the origin of origin sure. You're likely quoting the Kraft 2014 paper (a strong argument). Some say Oaxaca, I'm in the camp voting for Guatemala personally, just based on the diversity of the wild populations.

all crops have a center of domestication, but that doesn't mean they haven't been adapted for different climates. If you're trying to replicate the climate to which the ghost is adapted, shoot for Assam.

But I don't mean to derail, your setup looks spectacular and I am very jealous.
What do you think the mottle is? nutrient deficiency?

MNXR250R · Sep 28, 2017

Gorizza said:
Oh, yeah that was the origin of origin sure. You're likely quoting the Kraft 2014 paper (a strong argument). Some say Oaxaca, I'm in the camp voting for Guatemala personally, just based on the diversity of the wild populations.

all crops have a center of domestication, but that doesn't mean they haven't been adapted for different climates. If you're trying to replicate the climate to which the ghost is adapted, shoot for Assam.

But I don't mean to derail, your setup looks spectacular and I am very jealous.
What do you think the mottle is? nutrient deficiency?

The mottle.... I was hoping that you knew !!

Nutrient deficiency ? Can be sure if that is a cause. The pH was running at 6.4 to 6.5 for three days in the "new system". I was expecting the pH to drop after moving the plants to the new system. I had trouble with these two plants when I had them in the "old" system... each bucket was separate (same nutes, different buckets)... see http://thehotpepper.com/topic/65973-dwc-bhut-and-reaper-ph-dropping-very-fast/ (hope the link works).

The Bhut was the most troubling with respect to pH. In the old DWC system the pH would drop very fast in the Bhut bucket (one day it was more than a full point on the pH scale), while the pH was less likely to drop in the Reaper bucket. I don't know what was going on.

Based on the results that I had measured in the old setup, I let the pH in the "new" system remain high, predicting that it would drop quickly like it did in the old system. The pH didn't drop. It hasn't dropped at all since I moved to the new system !! What the hell ? So then I don't know if having the pH at the high side on the range for three days is a cause of the mottle.

But for now I'll just ignore it and hope that the plants will heal themselves.

Thanks for the reply Gorizza !

Jeff

MNXR250R · Oct 2, 2017

Added a nutrient chiller today. I have two wedding coming up in the next year, so I hope that this was the right choice. No more cash for my project !

To recap, the point of my experiment is to re-create the natural environment of the Super Hot pepper. From what I have read, this would be 80degF and 80 percent Relative Humidity.

My current growing experiment is indoors, in a 2.5ft x 2.5ft tent that is about 5ft 11in (~1.8m). I am using a HydroFarm 3100K 315W CMH fixture, with the ballast located outside of the tent( to reduce internal tent heat). I have a 2 circulation fans running inside of the tent. The hydroponic system is a Re-circulating Deep Water Culture, or RDWC. I have been using General Hydroponics Flora Series.

Up to now I have had to vent the tent continuously (venting directly to the outside, using the inside air to replenish (inside air has been about 70degF, very low humidity)) to keep them internal temperatures lower than 90degF. By doing this, I have been sucking out the humidity from the tent. The Relative Humidity (RH) inside of the tent has not come above 40-45 percent RH. My local humidity is random, but unless it's raining outside, the humidity is on the low side.

My hypothesis, based on what I have read is the the plant itself can tolerate high temperatures (100...105 degF...++ ), as long as the roots remain cool. The roots are the key to success. In a garden the sun will bake the leaves of the plant. Even in Minnesota, the leaves and the plant can be over 100degF. But below ground where the soil is moist, the roots will remain cool. The cool temperatures of the roots allow the water to retain more oxygen, and enhance the development of the root system.

Today, after the addition of the "root chiller" (nutrient chiller), I will remove the active (fan) venting from the tent. I will no longer concern myself about the internal temperature of the tent. Let it rise as it will. I will leave the tent ports open to allow the gas exchange (CO2....O2), and add an internal humidifier. The humidifier will be set on the lowest setting, as I expect the plants to add humidity to the tent.

I can't be certain the all of this work will be efficient or effective.... It is just an experiment after all. But it is pleasing to me

Happy Growing !

Jeff

qandeel · Oct 3, 2017

Thanks for the updates. It certainly looks like a lot of work and attention. Keep going

MNXR250R · Oct 11, 2017

Yet another update. The Reaper is growing like....way too fast !! It's going to overtake this (very) small tent in no time ! It is shading some of the Bhut leaves.

I trimmed the Reaper to look more like a tree than a bush. I like that look. Both plants now have little flower buds. The Reaper has started to actually flower, but the flowers don't seem to want to fully open up. I'll keep a eye on it. The foliage on the Bhut is very dense. Amazingly so !!

If I was to do this project over (which I will :dance:

)... I'd give the plants a lot more room. The buckets in this system are just too close together.

Happy Growing !

Jeff

ThatBlondGuy101 · Oct 11, 2017

Those plants looks great!

Whats the spacing between them?

If it becomes a serious issue, moving one plant to the front bucket could add a bit more room, as the diagonal spacing is wider.

What nutes are you giving them?

Good luck, I'll be keen to follow!

MNXR250R · Oct 12, 2017

ThatBlondGuy101 said:
Those plants looks great!

Whats the spacing between them?

If it becomes a serious issue, moving one plant to the front bucket could add a bit more room, as the diagonal spacing is wider.

What nutes are you giving them?

Good luck, I'll be keen to follow!

The buckets are 5 gallon, the spacing is a few inches between each bucket one the sides. Way too close. The tent is just too small for my project... know that now... not back then eh !

Nutes are General Hydroponics Flora Series. The plants are less than 6 weeks in the 5 gallons. The growth is....well it's just plain ridiculous

. I am doubtful that I can keep this Reaper for more than a week or two more. The flowers won't mature. Next week I will cut back the nutes. I'm hopeful that this will help.

Moving the plant is a good idea for sure. Easy to do with the setup I have.

Thanks Blond !

Happy Growing

Jeff

MNXR250R · Oct 12, 2017

General update and comments.....

Last night I recorded the temperature and humidity inside of my experimental grow tent. It was 88 degF with a relative humidity of 88% with th lights ON !!!!!! Holy happyness ! Or maybe not.... ?

I have been pursuing High temps and High Humidity in my grow environment.... this is what I know to be the native environment of the HOTS. So far I have achieved what I was after as far as the "above ground" temperatures.

I have "chiller" to keep the nutes and roots cool (74 degF). With this I can let the internal tent temperatures (leaf temps) increase to very high levels... I don't really care how high the "internal tent" temperature gets..... as long as my roots stay cool (and oxygenated).

A problem that I am having now is that the flowers do not want to open. I have lots of flowers on the Reaper. Some of them drop off at the mildest touch. Others are strong to the touch, but won't fully open. I suspect that I have too much Nitrogen in my mix. I don't know so any advice would be appreciated.

Happy Growing,

Jeff

karoo · Oct 13, 2017

Jeff ,
amazing setup you have there, everything to keep a man happy , peppers , tech toys , addictive hobby .
You have a perfect setup for vegetative growth , that is why they look so amazing.
My experience is that Nitrogen overload will prevent flowers from forming ( no flowers at all ) and high heat and humidity will give you flower drop.

Good luck , keep posting , we learn more from each others experiences than from academic knowledge .

MNXR250R · Oct 17, 2017

karoo said:
Jeff ,
amazing setup you have there, everything to keep a man happy , peppers , tech toys , addictive hobby .
You have a perfect setup for vegetative growth , that is why they look so amazing.
My experience is that Nitrogen overload will prevent flowers from forming ( no flowers at all ) and high heat and humidity will give you flower drop.

Good luck , keep posting , we learn more from each others experiences than from academic knowledge .

Karoo, I appreciate the feedback. Perhaps it is the Nitrogen that I need to focus on. These plants are just growing way too fast and I'm not able to clip off enough leaf material to keep these plants under control !!

Two days ago I decided to change the nutes. The previous mix was using General Hydroponics Flora Series "Early Bloom", with CalMag.... so the N was pretty high. I changed out the solution to the "Late Bloom" which dropped the Nitrogen quite a bit.

That was two days ago when I changed the nutes. Here are the plants today.

Look at the lowest part of the trunk.... I have several new shoots that grow like.... crazy !!!

I'm hoping that the nutrient change ( to low N ) will promote flower development and eventually FRUIT !!! That is what I want after all right ?

For fun, here is a pic from Sept 28.... for reference. Look at the extension cord socket. It hasn't moved. Compare the height of the plant to the other pics in this post. This growth is less than one month... WOW ! I did move the lamp up... I had to right !!!

Not sure how to stop this thing from growing and let it start PRODUCING ! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Happy Growing,

Jeff