2018 - The Farm

Well, I've been gone a few years from the board, and away from growing peppers, but looks like life is pushing me back that way again. 
 
I recently (last month) closed on a 25 acre farm in Central Illinois with some primo soil, and I'm going to give a commercial grow a test run. 
 

 

 
From up on the roof, when I was doing some roof repairs on the outbuildings. Not much as far as the eye can see, but cornfields...
 

 
 
Has a 4 stall garage and a horse stable on the property
 

 

 

 
Probably do my grow room upstairs here after I insulate it
 

 
Built some doors for the horse barn and patched the roof last month
 

 

 
 
Anyway just dropped a cold grand on seeds from pepperlover and buckeye, going to hit a greenhouse supplier up for other materials next week.
 
Have plans to build a 30x72' greenhouse in the spring, and a ~1200 sq foot dedicated grow room. Too late really to help with this year's grow, but next year it'll save me a lot of hassle on hardening off. 
 
The greenhouse, I am going to do a piped infloor heat slab, with a horizontal loop geothermal system (I own a mini excavator) that is solar powered. So heating should be nice, uniform, not create heat / cold bubbles, and not dry out plants like forced air would. I build circuit boards in my day job, so I will also build a microcontroller to handle the automated watering system with soil moisture monitors and actuated plumbing valves on the water supply.
 
Also plan on building a "deep winter" greenhouse for year round production. Got blueprints I made from a couple of years back, those are walled on three sides with heavy duty insulation, with the glass wall side angled to face winter solstice, so you can grow in the deep freeze months of the north. In the summer, those get hot enough to use as a natural dehydrator, replace the tables with racks for bulk drying.
 
Only doing a half acre or so of peppers to start with this year, the balance will be put in corn. I can't manage more than that with the labor I have available. (When you start talking thousands of plants, simple tasks like up-potting grow in to hundreds or thousands of man hours...)
 
Going to hire some local kids to help, school has a good ag co-op program for high schoolers, they can get school credit working on local farms. Since the plant out and harvest doesn't conflict too badly with corn, shouldn't have a problem finding labor around here.
 
Anyway, that's the plans.
 
We'll see how it goes.. er.. grows.
 

 

[TrentL]

Again, I'm assuming that the material I've studied is accurate as far as the chemistry behind what's going on is concerned, and that I've integrated it properly in to my thought pattern; I also might have ingested bad information or digested the info improperly and drawn the incorrect conclusions.
 
So I'm not saying what I wrote is gospel; rather, "this is my understanding of it."
 
If I'm wrong I hope someone will correct me so I can get the correction re-integrated properly.
 

 

[PeriPeri]

Faith brother it will come right. I sense you frustration and I feel your anguish. Your passion and your drive are inspiring, but I am concerned you are going to burn yourself out trying to control this thing. I think what you need is a mamba around that barn to take your mind off things a little. It worked for me this season  

 

[TrentL]

Faith brother it will come right. I sense you frustration and I feel your anguish. Your passion and your drive are inspiring, but I am concerned you are going to burn yourself out trying to control this thing. I think what you need is a mamba around that barn to take your mind off things a little. It worked for me this season

 
The frustration comes from trying to figure out what is wrong with something that gives you mixed signals. I swear the operations manual for plants must be more complex than for women.
 

 
As of last night's count I had 769 plants, probably broke 800 tonight, but haven't done the data entry yet to know for sure.
 
It's not what I wanted, but it's a whole lot better than "ZERO" ..

 

[TrentL]

pH alterations have done a FANTASTIC job getting these plants to rebound. The starter trays that were all yellowing are now green again! 
 
 

 

[Walchit]

I've been using vinegar to lower my pH and it seems my plants are doing better, I read somewhere people saying that in their hydro reservoir that vinegar made their roots feel slimy, and that the pH would drift back up over the next couple days. I did notice the drift in some water I had mixed a day earlier.

 

[TrentL]

I've been using vinegar to lower my pH and it seems my plants are doing better, I read somewhere people saying that in their hydro reservoir that vinegar made their roots feel slimy, and that the pH would drift back up over the next couple days. I did notice the drift in some water I had mixed a day earlier.

 
Yes I left a 5 gallon bucket 3/4 full of the vinegar/water solution (can we just call it a "plant douche"???) overnight and I had the foresight to stir it before I watered with it today. The water FIZZED when I stirred it with my arm the first time!
 
Don't use vinegar in hydro! Ever! Use phosphoric acid! That slime is the bacteria that grows more vinegar! It's called "mother of vinegar" - that slime is what is scraped off to add to barrels of alcohol to make more vinegar!
 
In dirt it's not a big deal as long as you don't leave a quantity of it sitting for too long. As that bacteria multiplies in a tank, it will continue to lower pH until it's dangerous to plants.

 

[TrentL]

The transplanted plants which were showing severe yellowing are starting to come around. I haven't done *anything* to them. What I think happened was they were growing roots very fast and got down to the saturated part of the pot (these were bottom watered 7 days ago, when transplanted). Then they went "oh crap we can't get any nutrients." Started yellowing severely.
 
I backed off lights for two days, running 4 bulbs instead of 8, and it made it worse, not better. 
 
So I lowered the lights down as far as I could to get them closer to the plants, and cranked it to 100% intensity. "Sink or swim time damnit"
 
The higher intensity lights hasn't hurt the plants but it has served to evaporate more moisture out of the soil.
 
Today they are actually darkening up again! And the only difference is those bottom soaked pots from 7 days ago are starting to dry out more. 
 
I gave them too much water down low, for seedlings. They didn't need nearly as much as I gave them to drink originally. While the top 1" was dry the bottom 2.5" was soaking wet still. 
 
As the roots are getting un-saturated they're starting to pick up more nutrients finally, and coming around.
At least that's my theory. 
 
I'm still seeing P and S deficiency but the signs of N deficiency are going away, at least. Interveinal chlorosis is much better than it was a couple days ago.
 
Hopefully by tonight I can get some update pictures taken, so I can compare them with the earlier pics.
 

 

[Walchit]

Plant douche, lol

 

[TrentL]

I moved 8 unsprouted trays down to the floor on warming mats to make room for more pot-ups. I have 137 potted up to 4" pots now, plus 9 'maters. (I *had* 10 maters and 138 peppers but one of each damped off - cause, too frigging sopping wet pots...).
 
The first batch of transplants are pulling through - I'm not bottom soaking transplants anymore. I'm mixing soil to a specific moisture, and leaving it at that. I damn near killed off the first 90 by doing bottom soaks at the time of transplant!
 

 

 

 

 

 
Second batch of transplants getting some light;
 

 

 

 

 
 
The rest of the room is doing pretty good;
 

 

 
Roots are looking GREAT on the coco coir plants (now that I'm not killing them with stupid high pH they are coming back to green fast..)
 

 
 

 

[Chilidude]

Have you thinked about using capillary matting under the pots to help with the watering?
 
This clever system might just work:
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/67427-seed-starting-system-using-plastic-water-bottles/#entry1530249

 

[PeriPeri]

Looking absolutely fantastic Trent. Backing off is a good one. As growers we are all too eager to throw stuff in the mix and to intervene. If there is one thing I have learnt is you can't rush nature and to just back off and see. Its difficult, but things usually iron themselves out. Your roots are looking amazing. My favourite routine every spring is to head out to the park and get Willow shoot cuttings. I make a rooting hormone from that, which I swear by. It's all natural and plants do so well with it. Roots development better and plants get a total immune jab. It works brilliantly for me. No harm, I just add it to every second watering. Plants develop without that lag. You can also use this hormone to root cuttings.

 

[TrentL]

Not a bad idea, and I like that it's fully natural and organic. Most hormone additives to plants are chemical in nature (e.g. variations on stuff like 2,2-d herbicides), and are decidedly not organic in nature. I'm trying to stay organic.
 
Staying organic, it seems, is a major pain in the ass.
 
I mean it cuts down on your options, a lot. I can't just dump whatever in there and make the plants magically grow. When they hit the field I can't just hire a sprayer to dump whatever targeted pest killer across the field. Going organic increases risk. It increases complexity. It increases difficulty by a fair margin.
 
I didn't expect that the nutrient uptake problem was saturated pots. That coco coir stayed DAMN wet. It holds a lot of water.  Now toss in vermiculite and pearlite and those damn pots stayed heavy. Heavy with 8.4pH water. That's a recipe for disaster right there, and frankly, I'm surprised I only lost *one* plant from it (so far).
 
It's been 8 days and I haven't needed to water the first transplants yet. They're doing ridiculously good now, darkening up and growing like crazy. I can't wait to see how they do after the next watering where I give them a drink of 6.5pH water!  Those bastards are going to wilt first though. No drinks until wilting!
 
Experiment update;
The starter trays; vermiculite is having the same effect it did in the experimental trays. I have much lower germination rates in trays containing vermiculite. I was *hoping* it was the perlite causing this. But I have a theory. I always have a theory. And it might be my fault.
 
I didn't wet the vermiculite ahead of time. I've noticed that in vermiculite trays, the soil feels much "denser" than the pure coir trays. By a wide margin. 
 
This is the first time I've mixed my own soil and I didn't read until last night that vermiculite should be pre-wetted. This is because it expands when it gets wet. It also has served as a serious water resevior for that high pH water. Two bad strikes. 
 
Well, crap. That means 1/7th of my damn mix is expanding out when it gets wet, compressing the soil, and has buffered my trays against later pH adjustments. The trays running vermiculite have been much slower to "green up" after I realized the pH mistake. I had to let them fully dry, to the point I was killing a few sprouts here and there, THEN add 6.5pH water to see a difference. "Flushing" them didn't work as it did with the pure coir trays, as the vermiculite remained saturated with high pH water. It adjusted out slower than the pure media trays.
 
Lesson learned. Hopefully I'll have better luck when I sprout the annuums next week. (Plus a few replacement chinense trays for the hell of it. Once the lights at the farm are in I can sprout out there too.)
 
Numbers as of 2/22/2018
 

 
We've got 839 plants up now. 137 transplants.
 
I am still waiting on 8 trays to sprout. Habaneros, various morugas, and aji dulce are all taking their sweet time. 
 
I'm *hoping* to crack 1,000 plants on this first batch but it's iffy. I was shooting for 1500 but the low germination % isn't working in my favor. As it stacks right now I have 11 rows of Chinense, out of a planned 25 rows. (150 foot rows, spaced 2' plant to plant on the chinense grows). 
 
So I will probably start a few more trays of chinense with whatever seeds I have left this weekend, it's still not too late to start them. Got 11 weeks until plant out which is enough time for Chinense to mature enough to transplant to the field.
 
Barely. I'd rather have 15 weeks, but 11 weeks will have to do. I couldn't make the call until I saw germination %. But I gotta make it now.. need a replant.
 

 
Some of the controlled experiments -
 
Aji Cereza;
 
Control tray 100% Coco coir - 81% germination
Experiment tray 16:1 Coco / Vermiculite - 63% germination
 
Even in small amount (1:16) vermiculite caused an 18% decrease in germination.
 
MOA Scotch Bonnet:
 
 
Control tray 100% coco coir - 46% germination
Experiment tray #1 (100% coir w/ fertilizer) - 53% germination
Experiment Tray #2 (16:1 coir / vermiculite, nutes) - 31% germination.
 
Against the control tray, germination was 15% lower with 16:1 vermiculite. Against the tray with nutes, 8% higher germination vs. control tray. The fertilized coir tray did 22% better germination than the equivalent tray with vermiculite added.
 
Big Sun Habanero:
 
Control tray 100% coco coir - 92% germination
Experiment Tray - 16:1 coir / vermiculite - 76% germination
 
Compared to control tray, vermiculite caused a 16% drop in germination rates.
 
Mixed Experimental Trays:
 
Tray 1 100% sphagnum peat moss - final germination rate 69%.
Tray 2 8:1:1 peat moss / vermiculite / perlite - germination rate 53%
Tray 3 8:1:1 peat moss / vermiculite / perlite + fertilizer (azomite) - germination rate 63%.
 
Again, we see vermiculite negatively affecting germination rates by a noticeable 16%. But this was slightly offset (+10%) by the addition of a weak fertilizer (azomite doesn't have *much* punch, but it has *some*.)
 
Tray 1-3 experiments are concluded. 
 
Tray 4 100% coir - final germination rate 64%
Tray 5 8:1:1 coir / vermiculite / perlite - germination rate 60%
Tray 6 8:1:1 coir / vermiculite / perlite + azomite - germination rate 65%
 
Tray 4 and part of tray 5 are in the process of being transplanted out. I'll call those "done" in a week or so and finalize the numbers.
 
In these three trays we see a slight drop in % for vermiculite, -4%, and an improvement in sprouting rates of +1%. However, don't let those numbers fool you. When I get transplant data it will become very clear that tray 5 and 6 are lagging WAY behind tray #4 in maturity and health. Tray 5 and 6 have a lot weaker plants, compared to straight coir.
 
Follow-up/isolation:
When I do annuums I'll do some pre-wetted vermiculite trays to see if that caused the issue, or if it is just the presence of vermiculite that caused the issue.
 
The bump in germination on nutrients with the scotch bonnets is worth exploring too. 8% higher germination rates w/ coir + nutes vs. straight coir is something to follow up on.
 
pH is another follow up. I want to observe the effects of germination % and first true leaf development on trays watered with 8.4 pH tap water vs. 6.5 pH.
 
Temperature is yet another follow-up. It's warm in the grow room. Ok, it's downright HOT in the grow room. Average temp with the door shut is now 94 degrees. I have to leave the door to the room open to suck in cooler 65 degree basement air to keep things at a balmy 86F.
 
 
Anyway hope this helps someone at some point; it'll help me for sure. Sprouting mixes with vermiculite or perlite in them are something I'd very carefully consider avoiding, moving forward. They've proven to be "bad news."
 
 

 

[Chilidude]

Perlite is good in coco, but not vermiculite as it holds too much water.

 

[TrentL]

I dunno when I took perlite chunks out and crushed them between my fingers, they let out quite a lot of water too! Vermiculite is like ALL water though. At least perlite continues to hold some air with the water.
 
I'm going to do a potting soil comparison with and without perlite, and with or without vermiculite. Once the homogeneous trays are ready to transplant all plants SHOULD be at the same stage of growth, being fully uniform. Unlike the initial 6 experiment trays where I had no common denominator. When I do the homogeneous tray transplants, on at least a couple of them, I'll be potting them up to 4 different compositions - same nutrients, but 1st is coir, 2nd is coir + vermiculite, 3rd is coir + perlite, 4th is coir + vermiculite + perlite.  Then I'll track watering schedules and growth between the lots. 
 
That'll give us some answers on what effect it has. Instead of just relying on "it's always been done this way with peat, so it must be done this way with coco coir."
 
Water retention / too much water / water sparsity has a DIRECT result on nutrient uptake and growth when the plants are in toddler stage, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.
 

 

[Chilidude]

I dunno when I took perlite chunks out and crushed them between my fingers, they let out quite a lot of water too! Vermiculite is like ALL water though. At least perlite continues to hold some air with the water.
 

 
That is why perlite is good with coco coir as perlite holds the air with the water instead of vermiculite that are all water without the air, that is the important difference between those quite similar looking stuff.
 

 

[TrentL]

 
That is why perlite is good with coco coir as perlite holds the air with the water instead of vermiculite that are all water without the air, that is the important difference between those quite similar looking stuff.
 

 
Right, but how much water retention is "too much"? Coir holds about 7 or so times it's weight in water. Sphagnum peat moss holds a lot more than that; but once it dries, it's terribly hard to re-wet again. Coir re-wets easily. I'm just wondering what the point is - I can see vermiculite and perlite being handy on peat moss to avoid it drying *totally* out (where it won't take water well). But coir re-wets without issue. So do we really need the reserve holding tanks like we do with sphagnum peat moss blends?
 
I haven't seen coir really compress either, not like peat moss. Peat moss tends to want to compact over time. Coir has stayed light and fluffy, even after top watering. My peat moss trays compacted to 50% their original volume whereas my coir trays compacted - MAYBE - 5%. 
 
So are the amendments even necessary in coir? 
 
Could they actually be detrimental?
 
That's what I want to find out.

 

[Chilidude]

 
Right, but how much water retention is "too much"? Coir holds about 7 or so times it's weight in water. Sphagnum peat moss holds a lot more than that; but once it dries, it's terribly hard to re-wet again. Coir re-wets easily. I'm just wondering what the point is - I can see vermiculite and perlite being handy on peat moss to avoid it drying *totally* out (where it won't take water well). But coir re-wets without issue. So do we really need the reserve holding tanks like we do with sphagnum peat moss blends?
 
I haven't seen coir really compress either, not like peat moss. Peat moss tends to want to compact over time. Coir has stayed light and fluffy, even after top watering. My peat moss trays compacted to 50% their original volume whereas my coir trays compacted - MAYBE - 5%. 
 
So are the amendments even necessary in coir? 
 
Could they actually be detrimental?
 
That's what I want to find out.

 
Coco coir have this amazing ability to not get too moist for the plants even if it holds so much water. Peat moss is the horrible one that gets too wet and also stays wet for far too long.
 
Coco coir will do fine with or without any added perlite or other additives, but i find perlite to be very helpful in the seedling stage.

 

[Devv]

 
That is why perlite is good with coco coir as perlite holds the air with the water instead of vermiculite that are all water without the air, that is the important difference between those quite similar looking stuff.
 

 
Exactly why I use the perlite in my coir starter mix. It's use is to help aerate the mix, ie. keep it from being a soggy mix.
 

 

[Devv]

 
Right, but how much water retention is "too much"? Coir holds about 7 or so times it's weight in water. Sphagnum peat moss holds a lot more than that; but once it dries, it's terribly hard to re-wet again. Coir re-wets easily. I'm just wondering what the point is - I can see vermiculite and perlite being handy on peat moss to avoid it drying *totally* out (where it won't take water well). But coir re-wets without issue. So do we really need the reserve holding tanks like we do with sphagnum peat moss blends?
 
I haven't seen coir really compress either, not like peat moss. Peat moss tends to want to compact over time. Coir has stayed light and fluffy, even after top watering. My peat moss trays compacted to 50% their original volume whereas my coir trays compacted - MAYBE - 5%. 
 
So are the amendments even necessary in coir? 
 
Could they actually be detrimental?
 
That's what I want to find out.

 
I like my seed starting medium damp, not wet. Wet (saturated wet ) is after a rain storm out there in nature. Damp is how the soil is for several, or many days after. I also cut out the middle man the last 2 seasons. I now seed start in 3.5" pots. The top 3/4 to 1" are in my own starter mix, primarily coir, on top of potting soil.  I add the goodies and set them in a tray of water and let it get nice and wet. Seed sow and let them go. Very few need a misting after that to keep things damp enough, not wet, to germ. Once they pop they don't need to be watered until they get "light". Nutes come at 1/4 strength once the 3rd set of true leaves just starts. And then the rest is just rocking on
 

 

[chocolatescotchbonnet]

I moved 8 unsprouted trays down to the floor on warming mats to make room for more pot-ups. I have 137 potted up to 4" pots now, plus 9 'maters. (I *had* 10 maters and 138 peppers but one of each damped off - cause, too frigging sopping wet pots...).
 
The first batch of transplants are pulling through - I'm not bottom soaking transplants anymore. I'm mixing soil to a specific moisture, and leaving it at that. I damn near killed off the first 90 by doing bottom soaks at the time of transplant!
 

 

 

 

 

 
Second batch of transplants getting some light;
 

 

 

 

 
 
The rest of the room is doing pretty good;
 

 

 
Roots are looking GREAT on the coco coir plants (now that I'm not killing them with stupid high pH they are coming back to green fast..)
 

 
 

I noticed you got some tomators in there.