2018 - The Farm

Well, I've been gone a few years from the board, and away from growing peppers, but looks like life is pushing me back that way again. 
 
I recently (last month) closed on a 25 acre farm in Central Illinois with some primo soil, and I'm going to give a commercial grow a test run. 
 

 

 
From up on the roof, when I was doing some roof repairs on the outbuildings. Not much as far as the eye can see, but cornfields...
 

 
 
Has a 4 stall garage and a horse stable on the property
 

 

 

 
Probably do my grow room upstairs here after I insulate it
 

 
Built some doors for the horse barn and patched the roof last month
 

 

 
 
Anyway just dropped a cold grand on seeds from pepperlover and buckeye, going to hit a greenhouse supplier up for other materials next week.
 
Have plans to build a 30x72' greenhouse in the spring, and a ~1200 sq foot dedicated grow room. Too late really to help with this year's grow, but next year it'll save me a lot of hassle on hardening off. 
 
The greenhouse, I am going to do a piped infloor heat slab, with a horizontal loop geothermal system (I own a mini excavator) that is solar powered. So heating should be nice, uniform, not create heat / cold bubbles, and not dry out plants like forced air would. I build circuit boards in my day job, so I will also build a microcontroller to handle the automated watering system with soil moisture monitors and actuated plumbing valves on the water supply.
 
Also plan on building a "deep winter" greenhouse for year round production. Got blueprints I made from a couple of years back, those are walled on three sides with heavy duty insulation, with the glass wall side angled to face winter solstice, so you can grow in the deep freeze months of the north. In the summer, those get hot enough to use as a natural dehydrator, replace the tables with racks for bulk drying.
 
Only doing a half acre or so of peppers to start with this year, the balance will be put in corn. I can't manage more than that with the labor I have available. (When you start talking thousands of plants, simple tasks like up-potting grow in to hundreds or thousands of man hours...)
 
Going to hire some local kids to help, school has a good ag co-op program for high schoolers, they can get school credit working on local farms. Since the plant out and harvest doesn't conflict too badly with corn, shouldn't have a problem finding labor around here.
 
Anyway, that's the plans.
 
We'll see how it goes.. er.. grows.
 

 

[TrentL]

The only plants out of the initial "mildew" batches (B&C) which got repotted, and are still alive, are the ones where the myco obviously took well;
 

 

 

[TrentL]

So been reading more about this. A lot of the things I saw - soil getting hot... roots getting cooked... ammonium buildup.. 
 
Apparently this is "par for the course" with organic soils. The solution is to mix and add the bio actives, and let the soils cook for a while before using them. Let the organics get breaking down, let the bacteria get going, let the fungus take hold... 
 
Which presents a rather big logistics problem.
 
Pre-mixing soils and letting it sit a month or whatever, I'll have to know what I'm going to need. 
 
Now the math is pretty straight forward, fortunately. The 4" pots are 56 cubic inches (4x4x3.5). A tray of them planted up is 4032 cubic inches. There's 1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot.. so each tray will require 2.33 cubic feet. 
 
Or another way is I have 734 transplants left to do out of the current batch. I had 939, already transplanted 199 (most of which will die.. unfortunately). Leaving me with 734. 
 
734 transplants * 56 cubic inches = 41,104 cubic inches. Divided by 1728 cubic inches in a foot, leaves me with 23.78 cubic feet. 
 
So I need 24 cubic feet of soil mixed... a month ago, to give it time to cook and stabilize.
 
Sigh.
 
 

 

[PtMD989]

Your seeds are now under the care of the USPS. [emoji16]


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[TrentL]

Your seeds are now under the care of the USPS. [emoji16]


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Thanks!
 
Just went through the gut wrenching experience of recycling the dirt from 160 of the first 199 transplants. I just dumped the whole mess of them together in to two big tubs, plants and all, and mixed it all together. MAN that smell of ammonia was strong. 39 of the plants were still looking "ok", but I don't have high hopes for them. 
 
The soil was the right consistency. But once the organics started breaking down, ugh. Nothing was working right.
 
Current plan is to let those two batches "cook" until they no longer reek of ammonia, then I'll use it as a portion of another mix (after checking ph, etc). I have a feeling once the organics break down it's going to be very strong, nutrient wise, but gotta let it go through the process. 

 

[PtMD989]

Composting? That doesn’t sound fun to do in your house. [emoji15] probably too cold outside to do that.


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[TrentL]

Composting? That doesn’t sound fun to do in your house. [emoji15] probably too cold outside to do that.


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Yeah it's not good. Wife has been complaining about the smell for a couple days.
 
So today 160 4" plants got tossed in to two big buckets. The smell of ammonia was overwhelming. Eventually it'll be good soil.
 
I poured a half gallon of Great White solution in one, and a half gallon of Mycobloom in the other, and stirred them up. 
 
That bacteria and fungus should start to knock out some of the ammonia, converting it from NH4 to NH3, which is usable by plants.
 
Based on the amount of ammonia smell, I'll need to further dilute that mix before I use it with plants.
 
On the rotten fish smelling bins, there was no noticeable ammonia, and no noticeable difference after 2 days between the 3 different mixes. So I dumped all three in the same bin and mixed it up. Then I took it at 1:1, 2:1, and 4:1 ratios of of a 5:1 coir/pearlite mix and potted some more plants up with it. Then I hit *those* with 2 oz of myco solution (great white).  The starter trays were also soaked in great white solution 2 days ago, so they are teeming with bacteria and fungus cells.
 
This gave the bacteria a 2 day running head start  in the media and the starter cells. TONS of organics in that soil mix, so I diluted it 50%, 25%, and 12.5% strength. 6 peppers each and the remainder of the soil went to potted up tomatoes.
 
I think the problem I had this last time, was the dry fertilizer mix was way strong. Totally unusable by plants, but once it DID start breaking down it went to NH4 (ammonia), and there wasn't enough bacteria in the soil to break it down in to NH3.
 
NH4 can be used by plants but they burn carbohydrates doing it, and it blocks calcium and magnesium uptake. Too much ammonia (NH4) will cause them to damp off, show bad nutrient deficiencies, then die. (Which is exactly what I was seeing). 
 
Meanwhile NH3 will make them grow like gangbusters. 
 
So I need NH3 - which means I need lots of aerobic bacteria going full throttle converting the organic material that breaks down in (via anaerobic bacteria) to NH4, in to NH3.
 
There has to be a good balance of bacteria breaking organic nitrogen down to NH4, and bacteria breaking NH4 down in to NH3, for a plant to thrive.
 
(Or you could cheat and use chemical KN3 or whatever, and forget all about the micro organisms..)

 

[PtMD989]

Is that something you can do at the farmstead? During summer for next year planting? So you can let the dirt do it’s “thing”.
One thing I learned, if Momma ain’t happy nobody is happy [emoji2]


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[fcaruana]

This blog is INSANE! Been following along and reading your experiments and it's extremely intriguing! Seems like you haven't really had much success at all finding a good organic potting mix, it's been getting bleaker and bleaker the more time passes.

To be honest, I can't seem to see what went wrong with your plants and why they're all dying/why so few of your mixes are working.. I had amazing success germinating and raising my seedlings to beautiful plants in a 5/1 mix of coir to seed starter soil, plus some perlite for extra drainage. They're all growing amazingly. Transplanted them into either solo cups or 4.5 inch square pots with just the regular promix with mycorrhizae (the white 3 cubic foot bag). The other thing I'm using is fox farm ocean forest organic potting soil.

The results speak for themselves.

I think you've stumbled upon your issue with your mixes composting on you and burning the plants (besides the pH and fungal issues). Maybe try to go back to basics/keep it simpler? Coco and some perlite or just an organic potting soil like fox farm ocean forest or even promix.

I figure chemical fertilizers are not an issue if you switch to completely organic before they get to fruiting. Just my experience so far! Sorry you had such rotten luck so far, but I'm looking forward to seeing your crop hit the dirt and your new farm get some use!


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[fcaruana]

I'm also thinking.. coir is a completely sterile medium, meant to be used with chemical/hydroponic fertilizers. When you use coir you need to water with nutrients every single time and at the right pH. If you wanted to make it organic you'd have to ether compost the coir, add it to a soil, or I think they have a line of "biocanna" or something which is organic nutrients for coco coir. Because coco coir is not soil (as you know). You'd need to add worm castings and some mycorrhizae and/or other soil-necessary bacteria and fungi. Those bacteria are going to think they need to compost the coir if that's all that's there. When you use coir as your base you are starting with no basic microbiology, so mixing it with some seed starting soil or any potting soil mix will get you to a more "soil" starting point. Then it will be less like you're trying to do a coco grow using soil practices, and more like a soil grow with lots of coco in it.


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[TrentL]

The company I ordered a 1 gal bottle of CalMag from screwed up and sent me a 2 ton Jack Puck press on accident. I shipped it back to them and for the trouble they sent the cal mag bottle plus four other freebies; 3 liquid fertilizers and a bottle of liquid myco, for hydroponics growing. So I have something new to play with there, if this ends up going straight coir + liquid ferts. (That company was Web Hydroponics, ordered via amazon marketplace).
 
 

I'm also thinking.. coir is a completely sterile medium, meant to be used with chemical/hydroponic fertilizers. When you use coir you need to water with nutrients every single time and at the right pH. If you wanted to make it organic you'd have to ether compost the coir, add it to a soil, or I think they have a line of "biocanna" or something which is organic nutrients for coco coir. Because coco coir is not soil (as you know). You'd need to add worm castings and some mycorrhizae and/or other soil-necessary bacteria and fungi. Those bacteria are going to think they need to compost the coir if that's all that's there. When you use coir as your base you are starting with no basic microbiology, so mixing it with some seed starting soil or any potting soil mix will get you to a more "soil" starting point. Then it will be less like you're trying to do a coco grow using soil practices, and more like a soil grow with lots of coco in it.


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Essentially you're right on - it's composting in the pot, which is bad news. It happened far worse on the pots with kelp meal in them, I think the bacteria goes after that stuff first.
 
The worm castings are loaded with anaerobic bacteria (the kind that turn organic stuff in to ammonia). The mycorrhizae powders are loaded with those plus a bunch of aerobic bacteria which breaks down NH4 (ammonia) to NH3 (nitrate), which the plants eat.
 
I think I had *way* too much organic stuff in the coir. Per 0.8 cubic foot I was using 1 cup of blood meal, 1 cup of bone meal, 1 cup of kelp. That sat there fine, until I added mycorrhizae a day or two later; immediately went toxic on the plants. Nitrogen overload. So when the bacteria were introduced w/ myco they went nuts and started converting the material to nitrates.
 
Likewise, with the 5:1:1:1 mix (5 parts coir, 1 part perlite, 1 part vermiculite, 1 part worm castings, plus blood meal, and kelp as above) and no myco addition, it took about a week before the same thing happened. The plants went nuts for a couple days, growing fast (thanks to worm castings) then the pots got hot, composted (bacterial and fungus bloom, and not the good fungus), and roots went goodbye. 
 
So I threw all of that ammonia smelling crap in a couple big bins together and dumped a bunch more mico solution in. I'll let it rest until it gets the NH4 under control, then use it as a part of a coir mix. (Essentially doing what you said above, have a composted portion but the bulk of it coir). 
 
The other mix I started two days ago was a 5:1 coir / perlite mix, with the same heavy organic components. I did 2.4 cubic feet of it, 3 cups blood meal, bone meal, and kelp. That'll be a damn strong concoction once the bacteria start breaking down the organics. It is 2 days in to it's cooking, and so far, smells deliciously like rotten fish; no ammonia smell. So the NH4/NH3 balance is good.
 
I'll dilute it with 5:1 coir and perlite mix.  (That's test "J", put out the first 18 pots of it today, in 1:1, 2:1, 4:1 ratios)
 
Test K will be taking "cat piss blend" - the 160 mixed pots I dumped together today of previous tests, that reeks of ammonia - after it's been broken down some by the 1 gallon of microbes I added today. That's 6.2 cubic feet. It will probably be pretty potent stuff, nitrogen wise, so I'll test 1:1, 2:1, and 4:1 dilutions of it with straight coir to see what turns out to be fatal to plants. I might even end up at 8:1 dilution.
 
Anyway basically with the amount of nitrate bearing organics in the soil, I was setting myself up for disaster once the microbiotics got rolling. There was FAR too rich of a nitrogen base sitting there for them to go after. Population explosion, which equals HEAT.
 
Probably also drove pH way the hell down, too. I'll test these before I use them, if pH in these soils drop off of a cliff I'll have to add lime and wait even longer before using it.
 

 

[TrentL]

As far as "why not buy a potting mix" - it would take an awful lot of that stuff (162 cubic feet, 6 cubic yards!). And potting soils cost quite a lot of money. Which is why I'm trying to get my own mix to work at least halfway decent. It is tough not having any organic add-in's though (manure, compost, etc).
 
Basically at this point I'm working on a rapid compost that I can add in.
 
If that doesn't work, back to chemicals. 
 
This year was 5k plants but it I can get a mix that works... and I end up growing the whole acreage out, it would end up being in the neighborhood of 332,800 plants with a per-year potting soil requirement of 40 cubic yards per year on the starters. With pro mix that'd make my potting soil cost would be over $6100.
 
So Ideally I'd like my own mix; it'd cost $1500 a year vs. $6100 if this scales up further.
 
Non-ideally, well, I gotta get something going here lol. A pallet of promix from greenhousemegastore, would get me through this season.
 
It's becoming too big of a pain in the ass to go full organic at this point though. This is the last hurrah, if it don't work I give up on fully organic. (Pro mix is not ORMI listed organic certified, as it uses wetting agents)
 
 

 

[Walchit]

I didn't get to the post office, been working on the septic system, I barely got this hole dug and the excavator back to the rental place in the four hours, they should give you 4 machine hours and a little travel time. My wife was gonna take it to the post office but she got distracted and it closed on her. Will be sent out first thing in the morning

 

[Edmick]

Sorry to hear about the loss of all those seedlings. That really sucks. I currently have about 1,700 or so pepper seedlings germinated and thousands of other vegetable seeds going. Losing them is a terrifying thought. It's a tough way to make a living. But I ain't goin back to working for the man so it is what it is! haha

 

[Devv]

As far as "why not buy a potting mix" - it would take an awful lot of that stuff (162 cubic feet, 6 cubic yards!). And potting soils cost quite a lot of money. Which is why I'm trying to get my own mix to work at least halfway decent. It is tough not having any organic add-in's though (manure, compost, etc).
 
Basically at this point I'm working on a rapid compost that I can add in.
 
If that doesn't work, back to chemicals. 
 
This year was 5k plants but it I can get a mix that works... and I end up growing the whole acreage out, it would end up being in the neighborhood of 332,800 plants with a per-year potting soil requirement of 40 cubic yards per year on the starters. With pro mix that'd make my potting soil cost would be over $6100.
 
So Ideally I'd like my own mix; it'd cost $1500 a year vs. $6100 if this scales up further.
 
Non-ideally, well, I gotta get something going here lol. A pallet of promix from greenhousemegastore, would get me through this season.
 
It's becoming too big of a pain in the ass to go full organic at this point though. This is the last hurrah, if it don't work I give up on fully organic. (Pro mix is not ORMI listed organic certified, as it uses wetting agents)
 
 

 This stuff I found on clearance is:
 
https://www.promixgardening.com/en/product/detail/pro-mix-vegetables-herb
 

 

[TrentL]

 This stuff I found on clearance is:
 
https://www.promixgardening.com/en/product/detail/pro-mix-vegetables-herb
 

 
I wonder how in the hell they keep that from cooking off, like my stuff is doing. Maybe they let it sit for a month before shipping? 
 
As soon as the myco is activated and goes to work on the organic fertilizers things get hot.
 
But then again, they also aren't running kelp meal. Rate of death on my mixes is directly proportional to that. 
 
I mixed up some new stuff tonight to give it a shake
 
4:2:1 coir / perlite / worm castings
 
per 7 gal;
1/2 cup blood meal
1/2 cup bone meal
1/2 cup azomite (since no kelp this will give trace elements)
 
I put a quarter gallon of Great White solution in it (1/8 tblspoon, 1/4 gal ph adjusted water)
 
Stirred it up, and we'll see if it composts in a day or two.
 
Last time I tried worm castings in a mix I got fungus; smelly mildew type fungus, but the myco should kick that in the ass. 
 
Those pots also got hot, but they had kelp in them.. I was reading tonight that alfalfa meal does the same thing - cooks off. 
 
Every mix that's "cooked" has had kelp in it, so I left it out of tonights mix.
 
Man I hope I'm narrowing this down, I'm about out of time. If the stuff I got in the bins doesn't work, I'll be ordering a pallet of pro mix .. and wondering WTF I'm supposed to do with 74 cubic yards of coir

 

[TrentL]

Devv - was just thinking more, they almost HAVE to let that rest before they ship it. Myco takes time to break down organic stuff in to nutes the plants can use. 
 
Otherwise if you got a bag, it wouldn't have jack squat to feed the plants for a couple weeks, until the microorganisms had time to really take off and start breaking stuff down.
 
I'm betting my biggest problem so far has been "mix it and use it right away."
 
Component wise I'm not doing anything off the reservation. Just not letting it sit and set up for a while before I use it.
 
 

 

[TrentL]

Anyway worm turd mix did the best until that mildew set in, those plants grew like gangbusters... for about a week.. then the soil got hot.
 
I'm betting it is kelp.
 
I'm hoping it's the damn kelp.
 

 

 

[Edmick]

Anyway worm turd mix did the best until that mildew set in, those plants grew like gangbusters... for about a week.. then the soil got hot.
 
I'm betting it is kelp.
 
I'm hoping it's the damn kelp.
 

 

Out of curiosity trent, What kind of ventilation ae you using for your seedling starting area?
 
Edit: Air circulation and ventilation

 

[TrentL]

Out of curiosity trent, What kind of ventilation ae you using for your seedling starting area?
 
Edit: Air circulation and ventilation

 
One 16" oscilating fan per 8' table.

 

[Genetikx]

Got damn... Reading all this makes me realize the $20 I spend on each bag of fox farm ocean forest is well worth it. I'm sure you're still going to pull off an incredible grow that dwarfs most...and wow, there is a wealth of info here for everyone.