2019 Hay Bale Pepper Patch

I've been a member for a while but never posted a grow log. My usual garden is too boring for that. I use 20-30 pots and overwinter my mama plants in a hillbilly winter shelter. Our ground here isn't good for in soil gardening and I've not been enthused enough to undertake the work and expense to build raised beds.
 
Now I have my peppers working the way I want and have the need for a much larger grow to supply a project. The main peppers I'll grow will be reaper, douglah and fatalii. For a couple of years I'll do hay bale gardens and heap tons of organic trash into the area. I have monumental amounts of pine straw, oak leaves and bonfire ash every year to dump in the walkways. I think this will do a world of good to make this new garden area mo'betta for eventual in ground growing.
 
I closed off a 38x38 patch in the NE field that gets full sun. This is the area I chose. The big painted guy is my fertilizer supplier.
 
The little painted guy is my running buddy and load inspector.
 
 

 

[solid7]

Have you ever had the soil tested? I'd be interested in the results, as something is on the money!

 
There is no need to have that soil tested.  The secret is the addition of massive amounts of organic matter.  He probably already has decent to good soil, which only become amazing when you feed it. (think of how lush, wild forests feed themselves)
 
Soil tests are absolutely essential for commercial farming that relies on tilling - which basically "kills" the soil, by releasing sequestered nutrients.  But when you can throw down truckloads of organic material, and foster fungal and microbial growth, and create "living" earth, you get these kinds of results.
 
DWB is probably one of the best examples of this in practice that I've seen on this board in a long time.

 

[DWB]

 
The only thing that I hate about horse manure, is that it's weedy AF.  I love oak leaves, and any kind of rotted wood that I can get hands on.
 
The hay would still be great for you as a top dress.  Especially if you use the manure.  It will keep weeds down, and break down so nicely over the season.

 
I've read a lot about horse manure being full of weeds but in my real life experience dating back a long time, I have to say... not so much.
 
We've had up to a dozen horses at times over the recent 30 years and I've used a lot of horse manure. When I want to get rid of some grass or weeds, I cover it with horse manure.
 
Here is a good example. I made this particular manure pile a year ago and just let it sit and compost. It was maybe 18" tall in the beginning.
 
Chase the link and scroll to the second picture to see the pile in June after I plugged a cantaloupe plant directly into the pile in May.  No weeds.
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/69987-2019-hay-bale-pepper-patch/page-23#entry1637704
 
As of right now, here's what's left of the pile and the cantaloupe plant. Not too weedy considering it hasn't been touched in a year.
 

 

[DWB]

 
There is no need to have that soil tested.  The secret is the addition of massive amounts of organic matter.  He probably already has decent to good soil, which only become amazing when you feed it. (think of how lush, wild forests feed themselves)
 
Soil tests are absolutely essential for commercial farming that relies on tilling - which basically "kills" the soil, by releasing sequestered nutrients.  But when you can throw down truckloads of organic material, and foster fungal and microbial growth, and create "living" earth, you get these kinds of results.
 
DWB is probably one of the best examples of this in practice that I've seen on this board in a long time.

 
But I cheated. I sprayed a whole bunch of different strains of Bacillus and Trichoderma and Streptomyces early in the summer. I think that helped a lot. The tons of horse manure also helped with the fungi. I always have a lot of mushroom on the jungle floor.

 

[solid7]

 
I've read a lot about horse manure being full of weeds but in my real life experience dating back a long time, I have to say... not so much.
 
As of right now, here's what's left of the pile and the cantaloupe plant. Not too weedy considering it hasn't been touched in a year.
 

 
So that's all good.  If you have that going on, then yeah, go with it.
 
I used to use horse manure, exclusively.  Still use it for bananas.  But my experience has been awful, for the most part.  It might just be a regional difference, but results are the only thing that matters.  Often, what works in one region, has complications in some other. (use of compost in containers, comes to mind)
 
 

 
But I cheated. I sprayed a whole bunch of different strains of Bacillus and Trichoderma and Streptomyces early in the summer. I think that helped a lot. The tons of horse manure also helped with the fungi. I always have a lot of mushroom on the jungle floor.

 
You didn't cheat.  You "inoculated" the grow, and gave your soil and dose of good health.  But there's literally no way that you'd keep that stuff out, as it occurs naturally.  And once you develop that web, so long as you don't rip up the soil and disturb it, it will remain there.
 
But my comments as to having the soil tested were mainly with regards to the fact that most soil tests are going to just show you macro and micro composition.  You don't need anything great for soil, when you are relying on all the stuff in your organic matter to do the work for you.  The soil test won't be that compelling. (maybe even a waste of money)  What is working for you, is that your "living" soil is making what's already there, 100% available, at all times.
 
I have pure sand in my yard, so I can't really make this method work, without some serious remediation.   But for most soil types, your results are 100% possible, and probable.

 

[BDASPNY]

While I've been comfortable with the nesco machines, I watch them pretty carefully since I run the bejeezus outta them. It's hard to trust machines that can burn things down so they always have a remote sensing thermometer probe going downhole so I can monitor.
 
Friday morning when I checked on things, my comfort level went to zero. The one running 10 trays was reading 210°. From the usual temp setting of 160° F, I turned the heat down to 95 and observed. The temp started dropping and eventually settled out at 150 but it took a while. I left it go like that to see what I could learn. 150 was the new bottom.
 
I decided I better call nesco in the afternoon to get things underway before the weekend. The very nice rep gave me some options. #1 Cut the cord off, send them a picture and they would send me a replacement motor. #2 Run a heat test and send pictures for evaluation and we'd talk about it. I opted for #2. When I removed my pods, I found enlightening and frightening things. The damn thing melted trays and ruined my screens.
 
I ran the heat test long enough to show the unit exceeds 200°when set at 160 by the thermostat and sent in a photo essay Friday night. I attach a few pictures here for your enjoyment.
 
I turned it back on yesterday and left it run on a 95° temp setting. The bottom of 150 didn't hold. It went up to 171°. One dead nesco.
 
Nesco does have good customer service and they do stand behind their products. They'll have all the replacements on the way to me today but I've lost that warm, fuzzy feeling for their machines.
 
So all is good except for the delays which I can ill-afford just now but such is life.
 
I am, however,  totally pissed that 380 grams of dried reaper and douglah pods are going to the compost rather than to the grinder. I don't think blasting the pods with those melting plastic fumes can be a very healthy thing but I imagine the BSF larvae will happily chow them down.

that's horrible! glad it didn't ruin anything else.

 

[lespaulde]

Off-topic:

Often, what works in one region, has complications in some other. (use of compost in containers, comes to mind)

Sorry to beat a probably dead horse (:horse, but would you care to explain the problem with compost in containers one more time? I was hoping to add 20-30% compost to a 50:50 soil/coco mix next year for my container grows, to see if I can avoid having to fertilise...

On-topic:

It's simply mind blowing how successful your season has been Dee, and such a pleasure to watch from the sidelines! You've clearly nailed whatever pepper growing can't grow at you, and I'm scared to even consider how next year's grown is going to progress. With that number of pods, you could single handedly host a weekly farmer's market for an entire town!

Glad those Nesco issues didn't turn out more severe than that, and that the company is making you whole again - nothing quite like great customer service!

How long do you expect to be able to keep them producing this year?

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[solid7]

Off-topic:

Sorry to beat a probably dead horse (:horse, but would you care to explain the problem with compost in containers one more time? I was hoping to add 20-30% compost to a 50:50 soil/coco mix next year for my container grows, to see if I can avoid having to fertilise...

 
I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll PM you.

 

[Devv]

 
There is no need to have that soil tested.  The secret is the addition of massive amounts of organic matter.  He probably already has decent to good soil, which only become amazing when you feed it. (think of how lush, wild forests feed themselves)
 
Soil tests are absolutely essential for commercial farming that relies on tilling - which basically "kills" the soil, by releasing sequestered nutrients.  But when you can throw down truckloads of organic material, and foster fungal and microbial growth, and create "living" earth, you get these kinds of results.
 
DWB is probably one of the best examples of this in practice that I've seen on this board in a long time.

 
I mentioned a soil test so we could find out more about why his soil kicked ass, as we all know it did.
 
I did a soil test the year before last. I wanted to know why my sand, now converted to beautiful soil over 12 inches deep from years of adding horse and cow manure (lots and lots) and compost did not produce as it should. I would say I've added well over 100 yards to the primary  40x40 feet I plant in. Still I was not happy with the plants production. The soil test told me the PH was crazy high, like 8.4. Which was certainly causing nutrient lock-out. Also many more factors are there to consider like the proper ratios of the three primary nutes, as well as the minerals, micro nutes, etc.
 
I also do not till. I'm a broad fork kinda guy...
 
So I've been working on the PH big time.

 

[solid7]

 
I mentioned a soil test so we could find out more about why his soil kicked ass, as we all know it did.
 
I did a soil test the year before last. I wanted to know why my sand, now converted to beautiful soil over 12 inches deep from years of adding horse and cow manure (lots and lots) and compost did not produce as it should. I would say I've added well over 100 yards to the primary  40x40 feet I plant in. Still I was not happy with the plants production. The soil test told me the PH was crazy high, like 8.4. Which was certainly causing nutrient lock-out. Also many more factors are there to consider like the proper ratios of the three primary nutes, as well as the minerals, micro nutes, etc.
 
I also do not till. I'm a broad fork kinda guy...
 
So I've been working on the PH big time.

 
Did you find out that your pH was caused by by the sandy/calcitic substrate, and that it had a high phosphorus content?   Manures on their own, don't tend to go too much higher than neutral, but are generally on the acidic side.  The Ns, Ps, and Ks won't be all that critical in healthy soil, if you can just figure out what the buffer is, that's keeping your pH so high.  
 
I have sand where I'm at - but it's beach sand.  (I'm just a few blocks from the ocean)  Unfortunately, I have almost zero chance of being able to remediate our soil to the point of that kind of grow.  But I did a soil building exercise over the course of about 3 seasons when I lived in my midwest house.  Our soil was, best I can describe, like a brick.  That kind that would cause a tiller to kick back, when you tried to even break the surface.  However, one year, I decided to spend about 3 days, and work about 8" of soil .  To this, I added every leaf, grass clipping, pulled weed, etc., that I could find.  The first year, I'd describe my garden as "porcupine meatballs". It was just stuff mixed in with dirt balls.  But, I added more when the leaves fell off the trees in fall.  About 12" thick.  Covered it for the winter.  Let it sit.  Come spring, I didn't till.  I just dug holes and planted.  At the end of the summer, my soil was decent.  The following year, and all steps repeated, it was absolutely primo.  Soft and fluffy, and I never fertilized the entire season. 

 

[Devv]

My native "soil" here, and here is where the garden is, is 2 feet of a fine sand that has to be wet to dig in. So it's has some fine clay mixed in. Below it is a red clay, 6 inches more and it's the calcium laden sandstone rock (Caliche).

 

[DWB]

 
I used to use horse manure, exclusively.  Still use it for bananas.  But my experience has been awful, for the most part.  It might just be a regional difference, but results are the only thing that matters.  Often, what works in one region, has complications in some other. (use of compost in containers, comes to mind)
 
 

 
Maybe it's all about what they eat? I always kept my pastures clean so horses eat grass, not weeds.
 
 

It's simply mind blowing how successful your season has been Dee, and such a pleasure to watch from the sidelines! You've clearly nailed whatever pepper growing can't grow at you, and I'm scared to even consider how next year's grown is going to progress. With that number of pods, you could single handedly host a weekly farmer's market for an entire town!

Glad those Nesco issues didn't turn out more severe than that, and that the company is making you whole again - nothing quite like great customer service!

How long do you expect to be able to keep them producing this year?

 
Thanks LP.  The jungle is running in double overdrive with the pedal to the metal . It will produce like crazy until it's finally winter killed. Right now I guess there's at least another 100 pounds of pods in various stages of unripe and it's still flowering and setting pods like it expects to run for months.
 
I received my delivery today. A new dehydrator and some extra parts. This brings me up to new total 32 ft² of drying area. I gotta start running the hair off it tomorrow.

 

[DWB]

I haven't been able to pick since last Thursday. Bad weather since last Friday that's given us 6" of badly needed rain. It quit yesterday so I picked a tad bit but the jungle was soaked and I didn't feel like a swim so I didn't do much. Besides, it was getting too cold after the cold front passed and was way too windy to be working in the wet. At 5 AM yesterday it was 81°. This morning at 5 AM it was 37°.
 
So, I got to it this morning. The jungle was even more collapsed from all the rain. I spent most of the day doing a quick and dirty pick job, basically surveying and hauling out what got in my way. I got quite a bit more than usual but left a lot behind. So much is so hidden in under the collapses now and then there's a lot of "can't get there from here" to pick it. And I didn't even touch three row faces. I'll be picking every day til I get it cleaned up. It's gonna be slow going to get caught up. The jungle is going cray-cray
 

 
I found a bit of frost on the compost this morning at 7:30. Seems odd. None anywhere but on the top of my compost piles. All of them had some frost but it didn't bother any of my plants in the jungle or in the iso garden up by the house. Go figure? It wasn't that cold.
 

 

[DWB]

My native "soil" here, and here is where the garden is, is 2 feet of a fine sand that has to be wet to dig in. So it's has some fine clay mixed in. Below it is a red clay, 6 inches more and it's the calcium laden sandstone rock (Caliche).

 
I have a bit of topsoil and then it's all stiff red clay.. Thank goodness there's no caliche bottom.
 

 

[skullbiker]

That jungle of yours is producing quite wildly, which is why some might say.........be careful what you wish for!

That frost is weird shit, many times in the past in MN my car would have frost on it and the wifes would not.....parked next to each other.

 

[solid7]

Maybe it's all about what they eat? I always kept my pastures clean so horses eat grass, not weeds.

 
Could be.  Or it could just be where the pile was kept.  I dunno.  There's a few species of uber-prolific weeds around, and they might just germinate really well in the warmth of the pile.
 
It's hard to say no, because it's free and abundant around these parts.  People would rather you come and take it away, than have to deal with it, themselves. 

 

[DWB]

 
Could be.  Or it could just be where the pile was kept.  I dunno.  There's a few species of uber-prolific weeds around, and they might just germinate really well in the warmth of the pile.
 
It's hard to say no, because it's free and abundant around these parts.  People would rather you come and take it away, than have to deal with it, themselves. 

 
The only thing I've ever seen sprout in a pasture pile, as deposited by a horse, is mushrooms. In fact, these piles kill all the grass and weeds underneath until they melt in to the soil. Then the grass will come back. Same with a man made pile. Until it melts down to a very thin layer, weeds and grass do not grow through and weeds never seem to sprout out of the top.
 
Maybe the problem is mixing horse manure with soil and spreading it thinly or simply spreading it thinly. Spread thickly in layers with shredded or composting oak leaves makes for a wonderful weed barrier.
 
From last October.
 

 
Ten months later, still no weeds.
 

 

[solid7]

Wow, that is just too clean.  Want me to send you the weed in question, for the sake of an experiment? What could possibly go wrong? 
 
I've tried to get oak leaves in quantity here, but they're incredibly hard to acquire.  It seems that the people who have access to them, know what they're for, already.

If I'm being honest, seeing in-ground gardens has got me lusting for a soil patch.  I'm seriously considering relocating to somewhere that I can ditch the containers, and grow free again.  
 
On another note, I've been pondering the idea of using an old dryer as a dehydrator.  Maybe take the heating element down a notch. no splitting or de-seeding.  I'd do that after they were crushed. (screen them out)  I've got an Excalibur 9 tray, and I can't keep up in the middle of the summer. 

 

[BDASPNY]

The only thing I've ever seen sprout in a pasture pile, as deposited by a horse, is mushrooms. In fact, these piles kill all the grass and weeds underneath until they melt in to the soil. Then the grass will come back. Same with a man made pile. Until it melts down to a very thin layer, weeds and grass do not grow through and weeds never seem to sprout out of the top.
 
Maybe the problem is mixing horse manure with soil and spreading it thinly or simply spreading it thinly. Spread thickly in layers with shredded or composting oak leaves makes for a wonderful weed barrier.
 
From last October.
 

 
Ten months later, still no weeds.

that's the most beautiful impressive setup I've seen. no weeds, plants growing tall and straight with pods produced by the gallon. goals to strive for.

 

[PtMD989]

So I see Oak leaves are very good. Hows about Maple leaves,eh [emoji848]. I have a good supply of Maple leaves.


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[solid7]

So I see Oak leaves are very good. Hows about Maple leaves,eh [emoji848]. I have a good supply of Maple leaves.
 

 
 
Use what you have!  You are attempting to re-create the conditions that nature creates in the forest.  And while that doesn't always work in containers, it's a great approach in ground.  The forest doesn't fertilize - and yet, creates the most fertile conditions.