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A few questions about growing..

M

mattbhm

Hey guys! I am back again, it's been a bit. I was planning to go hydroponic, but after such a good grow last season, I decided to stay in the ground. I got something around 5lbs of fruit, primarily superhots.
 
Anyways, there were a few issues that I want to mend.
 
First and most importantly, starting the seeds. I used these last year and wasn't super happy. They were a bit hard to keep track of because they're so small, but more importantly they were extremely hard to remove when ready to transplant. They're also tiny so they were getting rootbound extremely fast. This could probably be solved by transplanting even earlier, but I'd rather start with something bigger I think. I was wondering, could I start in a solo cup? Or something like that?
 
If I were to start in a solo cup, would I use the same medium mixture that I learned from Solid7 a couple years back(7 parts peat/coco, 3 parts perlite, 1 part compost)? Skip the compost? Anything else different?
 
 
The other issue I had last season was with drainage and weeds. They were directly in the ground. Would a raised bed(s) help with this enough to be worth the initial expense vs in the ground? I feel like my plants were stunted due to the immense number of weeds. And had some seemingly overwatering issues even with just rain at times.
 
If a raised bed(s) is worth it, would I use the same medium mixture listed above in it?
 
Thanks for any help/info!!
 
Did you pull the mesh off before planting in the ground?.
The mesh screws up root growth.
One time I dug up a few plants that looked sick and found the mesh was keeping the roots from getting out of the jiffy pellets.
 
I use peat pots now-
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=peat+pot&hvadid=77927940046772&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_c4ncjlyb4_p
 
just stick them in the ground.
I get them at the $.99 store in different sizes.
 
I put them in $.99 store plastic shoe boxes to keep damp...
 
As far as weeds go. You need to mulch to keep the weeds down. Also healthy soil equals healthy plants. What are you doing to your soil to make sure that it is at its healthiest? Till or no till? Or are you just randomly planting plants in the ground?. Do you amend your soil at all? What do you do with the soil beds in the winter time? All of these things are important. Do you make your own compost? Are you adding fertilizers? if you're having drainage issues I strongly recommend building raised beds. I would also have you look into no dig gardening for soil improvement. I've had plenty of success starting in solo cups. That's actually what I do with my tomatoes. However I have not had any trouble using 1-in square plugs and letting my pepper plants get to about 6-in tall before transplant. Slow growth on seedlings could also be That you're not feeding them. Most seed starter soils only have enough nutrients for the first couple of weeks.
 
smokemaster said:
Did you pull the mesh off before planting in the ground?.
The mesh screws up root growth.
One time I dug up a few plants that looked sick and found the mesh was keeping the roots from getting out of the jiffy pellets.
 
I use peat pots now-
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=peat+pot&hvadid=77927940046772&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_c4ncjlyb4_p
 
just stick them in the ground.
I get them at the $.99 store in different sizes.
 
I put them in $.99 store plastic shoe boxes to keep damp...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the info! Yeah, I always try to peel the mesh off but the problem is, by the time I go to transplant, the roots are tangled so bad in the mesh I can't get it all off. And I transplant them when they're still very tiny.
 
I've seen those peet pots around, never used them though. Do you use a peat mixture like described above, or just potting soil? Also wondering if coco coir is a direct replacement for peat as it seems to have mostly overtaken it in the market from what I am seeing.
 
peppersproutfarm said:
As far as weeds go. You need to mulch to keep the weeds down. Also healthy soil equals healthy plants. What are you doing to your soil to make sure that it is at its healthiest? Till or no till? Or are you just randomly planting plants in the ground?. Do you amend your soil at all? What do you do with the soil beds in the winter time? All of these things are important. Do you make your own compost? Are you adding fertilizers? if you're having drainage issues I strongly recommend building raised beds. I would also have you look into no dig gardening for soil improvement. I've had plenty of success starting in solo cups. That's actually what I do with my tomatoes. However I have not had any trouble using 1-in square plugs and letting my pepper plants get to about 6-in tall before transplant. Slow growth on seedlings could also be That you're not feeding them. Most seed starter soils only have enough nutrients for the first couple of weeks.
Click to expand...
I tried mulching but never got good results with keeping weeds down while also keeping the small plants alive. But that was a while ago, I'll mulch this upcoming season. I till usually a month or so before planting. I also used to layer with fresh homemade goat manure before planting but since getting rid of our goats I have been using store bought compost. I do not do anything with my beds of winter. I use fish fertilizer and occasionally some synthetic fertilizers depending. I also use some Jobes organic slow release when I first plant them.
 
Thanks!
 
mattbhm said:
I tried mulching but never got good results with keeping weeds down while also keeping the small plants alive. But that was a while ago, I'll mulch this upcoming season. I till usually a month or so before planting. I also used to layer with fresh homemade goat manure before planting but since getting rid of our goats I have been using store bought compost. I do not do anything with my beds of winter. I use fish fertilizer and occasionally some synthetic fertilizers depending. I also use some Jobes organic slow release when I first plant them.
 
Thanks!
Click to expand...
sounds like you may be using a mulch that is too heavy for the smaller plants. I use sterile straw until the plants are large enough (12") to handle the heavier mulch. The great thing about the straw is it breaks down very quickly after you put heavier mulch around the larger plants. This feeds the soil and in turn feeds the plant. remember soil health is equally if not more important than plant health itself. Have you done any soil tests? Tho not perfect they can give you a lot of insight as to what even needs to be added if anything at all. Hope this helps a little. Good luck this year.
 
A note on transplanting. I typically go from the 1-in pot to a solo cup prior to transplanting outside. So there's technically two transplants. Don't like to let the seedlings get much past the first true leaf before I put in the larger cups. Though time can get away from you. Last season I missed six habanero seedlings that got pretty big in the small starter pots and produce quite well when it was all said and done.
 
I use regular potting soil in 4-5in. pots.
 
You can cut slits in the mesh-as many as you can to give larger roots grow out.
 
I also put osmocote time release fert. in  the soil.
flower and vegtable,14-14-14    it was on sale somewhere...
 
peppersproutfarm said:
Don't like to let the seedlings get much past the first true leaf before I put in the larger cups.
Click to expand...
+1 PSF! Sometimes I drop the jiffy pellet or rock wool
cube in dirt as soon as the cotys turn green.
 
mattbhm said:
 
First and most importantly, starting the seeds. I used these last year and wasn't super happy. They were a bit hard to keep track of because they're so small, but more importantly they were extremely hard to remove when ready to transplant. They're also tiny so they were getting rootbound extremely fast. This could probably be solved by transplanting even earlier, but I'd rather start with something bigger I think. I was wondering, could I start in a solo cup? Or something like that?
Click to expand...
If you use rock wool cubes, there's no mesh to take off,
and the seedlings can stay in the rock wool for a week
or two no problem, then just drop the whole thing into
the dirt. I don't leave them in the cubes longer than three
weeks. I have used Jiffy pellets and Rockwool, and I prefer
the rock wool.
 
These days I just sow into Black Gold all-purpose potting
soil in 32-cell flats. The cells are big enough to allow the
seedlings to get a good start, then I transplant into 2-liter
square pots or similar for the indoor part of the grow.
 
Good luck in the coming season.
 
Thanks everyone! I am debating between rockwool and just straight coir/peat mixture in peat cups or something. It sounds like either would work without issue.
 
What do you guys think about mixture for the raised beds? I assume it doesn't have to be as light as container mix(7/3/1, Peat/Perlite/Compost)? Peat/Coco would be extremely expensive if I went that way for a full bed.
 
Thanks!
 
I personally use equal parts. And I don't turn it every year. I just add more to the top layer along with any other top dressed amendments like coffee grounds and egg shells
 
Most people seem to be using potting soil for their raised beds.  Like you say, using Coco Coir in their raised beds would be really expensive.
 
After that, I'm not sure there's a clear consensus on the best potting soil, or home-rolled potting soil mix.  The topic has led to many spirited debates.  :)
 
Alright, so the seeds will be here in a couple of days. I am working on getting my raised beds made.
 
I grabbed 10 cu. ft of coco coir. I think I am going to throw together a homemade potting mix.
 
I heard that a raised bed mix can be a lot heavier than a container mix. So I was wondering, could I do something like 50% top soil/garden soil, 25% compost, 25% coco/perlite mix? Or something like that? I want to get an idea soon so I can find a source to get the dirt/compost from.
 
Thanks for all the help so far!
 
mattbhm said:
Alright, so the seeds will be here in a couple of days. I am working on getting my raised beds made.
 
I grabbed 10 cu. ft of coco coir. I think I am going to throw together a homemade potting mix.
 
I heard that a raised bed mix can be a lot heavier than a container mix. So I was wondering, could I do something like 50% top soil/garden soil, 25% compost, 25% coco/perlite mix? Or something like that? I want to get an idea soon so I can find a source to get the dirt/compost from.
 
Thanks for all the help so far!
Click to expand...
Some garden shops/nurseries carry their own professional landscaping mix or raised bed mix that's best suited for your area.  You should check around locally.  
 
Harry_Dangler said:
Some garden shops/nurseries carry their own professional landscaping mix or raised bed mix that's best suited for your area.  You should check around locally.  
Click to expand...
 
Exactly this.  Don't screw around with coco and perlite and all that other nonsense for a raised bad.  Use locally sourced materials, and start putting up compost for future seasons.
.
As far as what size to start your seeds in - unless you just absolutely don't have the room to do anything else, that whole "this size to that size" routine, is almost completely masturbatory.  My tried and true method, has been to start seeds at room temp, and give a daily spritzing (for indoors), or just plant and keep watered, if outdoors.  I use the 16oz. solo cups from germination to transplant.  See here:
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50792545203_b8edda8579_z.jpg

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The only time I up-pot, is if I can't plant right away.  But solo drink cups are bomb.
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The mix that I referenced earlier is absolutely fine for starting seedlings.  The mix that I use for myself for starting seeds, is straight coco, with about 20% added pre-charged biochar.  When the first true leaves appear, I sprinkle in a half Tbsp of kelp meal, and a dry organic fertilizer. (my favorites are either Alaska fish pellets, or a product called, Shin Nong Pro Organic)
 
DontPanic said:
After that, I'm not sure there's a clear consensus on the best potting soil, or home-rolled potting soil mix.  The topic has led to many spirited debates.  :)
Click to expand...
 
There's even more to the topic than this.  If your raised bed is bottomless - i.e., sitting on top of earth - you can put anything you want in it, including dirt.
.
Some of the debates about this are ridiculous. 
 
OP - I would also suggest that for weed control, if you have it really bad, consider a layered planting approach.  Plant herbs, radishes, etc, and create a competitive ecosystem.  Having a garden that employs multiple tiers of root systems, is highly beneficial, overall, for more than one reason. (not the least of which is oxygenation and cooling)  But if you've got plants vigorously growing in the available space, it's much less likely that a weed is going to gain a foothold.  This is why I suggested radishes as part of the approach.  I can only grow them in our autumn and winter, but they germinate so radically - literally 2-3 days - that they outcompete every other weed in my garden.  I will sow them denser than one would normally sow radishes when considering them solely as a food crop.  In this pic, you can see 3 day old radishes, in a new tomato planter.  I will overseed these with more radishes, once they grow out a bit.
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50793357911_b65c37b479_z.jpg
 
I'll look for a local nursery's raised bed mix. I feel kinda stupid getting $40 in Coco to just use a pre-made mix but I guess I can actually do some potted tomatoes to go with my raised bed peppers.

I did decide to go solo cups from the start in a tray to do bottom watering. I was going to go with cells but I really think the less transplanting the better. And I have plenty of space. I think I'm going with 6 parts Coco to 1-2 parts vermiculite for seed starting.

Also my bed will be open on the bottom. This means I don't have to be so careful? My plan after some research was going to have some logs/sticks/other non fully composed organic material on the bottom, then a layer of cheap compost, then a layer of top soil/Coco mix, then a layer of high quality mushroom compost then mulch. Also let it sit for a couple months before planting

The only thing I have purchased right now is the Coco, so I'm open to anything.
 
Coco is great for seed starting, so nothing wasted.  You can literally plant seeds in pure coco for seed starts.  And, as if the coco wasn't forgiving enough, the depth of the solo cups make it almost impossible to overwater.  You really don't need to bottom water coco, though, and I'd absolutely recommend against it, for seedlings.  If you are, in any way, going to be able to overwater coco, that's how you'd be able to accomplish it.  Plus, it can/does grow mold, being constantly saturated.   I've seen it, done it, and am absolutely not ambivalent about recommending against bottom watering seed starts in coco.
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If your raised bed is open on the bottom, you've got the closest thing that there is to growing in earth.  There will be no problems with drainage - providing that you aren't sitting on top of some impermeable substrate.  You get all the advantages of an in-ground garden, but with localized premium grow media.  Your plan for filling them sounds fine, but definitely go find nursery mix.  I put all sorts of rotten wood and things in my beds.  I don't think you need to go too crazy with multiple ingredients if you find that nursery mix.  It's going to break down just fine, and any good nursery mix will already have a fairly significant amount of partially/fully composted material.
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If you don't like the idea of companion/layered planting, consider mulching with yard waste.  I do that so often in another section of my garden, that I'm considering buying a quality shredder this year, and never sending anything to the landfill again.
 
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