pests A novel approach to aphids

Roguejim

Roguejim

It might not be "novel" to everyone else, but, it is to me.  I posted a question at the gardenweb forums regarding attracting predatory insects that would destroy aphids.  Most answers were predictable except for this one below.  What do you think?  I'm not a gambler.
 
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/organic/msg1122413014118.html?6
 
Posted by roguejim 8 (My Page) on
Sun, Nov 16, 14 at 22:41
I live in southern Oregon. This last season, aphids ravaged my pepper plants. I went through quite a bit of pyrethrins, but never completely got rid of them. Some plants were too far gone to save. Next season, I would like to attract aphid predators, like lady bugs, or anything else that kills aphids.
Are there certain plants/shrubs/flowers that will attract beneficial insects that will prey on aphids?
 
 
This last season, aphids ravaged my pepper plants. I went through quite a bit of pyrethrins, but never completely got rid of them. Some plants were too far gone to save. Next season, I would like to attract aphid predators, like lady bugs, or anything else that kills aphids.
 
 
Stop killing the aphids. And plant something that will be "aphid bait" to get a good population built up before the garden gets going. Nothing attracts aphid predators except aphids.
Here's how it works ... ladybugs and lacewings and syrphid flies are attracted to plants with existing aphids. If they don't find enough aphids for their offspring to mature on, they look for different plants.
So when you see the first aphids, panic, and bring out the pesticides you not only kill off most of the aphids, you kill any baby ladybugs and lacewings you might have had or discourage the adults from laying eggs ... and you are stuck the rest of the year spraying poisons around the garden.
Wait and see what happens - I can have some plants encrusted with aphids early in the year and then see almost none the rest of the time as soon as the aphid predators come.
Syrphid fly adults are pollen eaters - if you plant some flat pollen source flowers (almost anything daisy-like will work) around the garden you encourage them. Lacewing and ladybug adults are bug-eaters, so you need to have aphids for them.
 
 
 
 
 
It makes sense to me. Interested to hear from the other members. I sprayed nothing this year on my plants and let mother nature do its thing and I was aphid free but was attacked by hornworms. There was plenty other vegetation around that could of served as "aphid bait"
 
Hi Roguejim, Could not agree more! Plant Nasturciums to attract aphids that will attract the beneficial insects. Sprays stop aphids dead but also stop all the other insects from coming around. No aphids, no ladybugs and the likes. I am playing around with various beneficial plants this season and I can already say it has had a big impact on my reaching for the Neem Oil. No neem oil so far this season!
 
Look.  The aphids this season were not noticed by me until they were thick.  Where the h--- were the predators if aphids attract predators??  Should I have waited even longer for the predatory insects to ride in on their white horse and save the day?  I still say this is a gamble that most will not take.  It might be great, but ONLY if the predatory insects show up to begin with, and show up IN TIME.
 
Roguejim said:
Look.  The aphids this season were not noticed by me until they were thick.  Where the h--- were the predators if aphids attract predators??  Should I have waited even longer for the predatory insects to ride in on their white horse and save the day?  I still say this is a gamble that most will not take.  It might be great, but ONLY if the predatory insects show up to begin with, and show up IN TIME.
Click to expand...
Yea, you are right. If the insects aren't nearby, the aphids are not going to help - true I suppose. And the nasty thing about aphids is when you start noticing them - usually they just explode. This season we have grown benefical plants from the onset... so i guess word has gotten around on the Ladybug grapevine. Another thing I have always though is also to control the ants. Another interesting cohabitation is the simbiotic relationship between ants and aphids. Controling ants in the garden may well impact adversely for aphids. Not too clued up about how ants help aphids, but I think there may be a connection. I also was told bamboo is important for ladybug populations. Apparently they use the dried bamboo for shelter? Again, not sure about that one and again, it would take preemting and planning. If all else fails, I really like Neem Oil. Or lately Neutrog. They are certified organic and work miracles :)
 
This past season (outdoors) anyway I only had one outbreak of aphids. Early in the season my orange habanero suddenly became inundated with aphids. As stated in many postings the quick fix is to hose them off.
Works wonders, and it is a long crawl back to the plant. However,  this time of year, for most, the discussion of aphids and their control is generally in reference to over wintering and indoor grows in which plants that were once outside, came indoors carrying with them the unwelcome hitchhikers and none of the beneficial insects. If you didn't bring beneficials in for the winter, your not going to attract them.
 
PeriPeri said:
Yea, you are right. If the insects aren't nearby, the aphids are not going to help - true I suppose. And the nasty thing about aphids is when you start noticing them - usually they just explode. This season we have grown benefical plants from the onset... so i guess word has gotten around on the Ladybug grapevine. Another thing I have always though is also to control the ants. Another interesting cohabitation is the simbiotic relationship between ants and aphids. Controling ants in the garden may well impact adversely for aphids. Not too clued up about how ants help aphids, but I think there may be a connection. I also was told bamboo is important for ladybug populations. Apparently they use the dried bamboo for shelter? Again, not sure about that one and again, it would take preemting and planning. If all else fails, I really like Neem Oil. Or lately Neutrog. They are certified organic and work miracles :)
Click to expand...
 
I also plan on having beneficial plants in my garden, but, there is still some confusion.  If I plant beneficial plants/shrubs/flowers, but there are no aphids, will the lady bugs, lace wings...still show up?  Are the beneficial plants alone, enough to attract beneficial insects, in the absence of aphids?  Are the lady bugs/lace wings attracted to the beneficial plants because they might harbor aphids, or for some reason?
 
Are your lady bugs sticking around without the presence of aphids?
 
I had more ants than ever this season also.  I think this explains why.
http://insects.about.com/od/coolandunusualinsects/f/antsandaphids.htm
 
This is an interesting pdf file concerning insectary plants.
http://www.ipmnet.org/Posters_and_Presentations/Farm_Insectary_Plant_Manual_Draft2_Pressqual1.pdf

Roguejim said:
 
I also plan on having beneficial plants in my garden, but, there is still some confusion.  If I plant beneficial plants/shrubs/flowers, but there are no aphids, will the lady bugs, lace wings...still show up?  Are the beneficial plants alone, enough to attract beneficial insects, in the absence of aphids?  Are the lady bugs/lace wings attracted to the beneficial plants because they might harbor aphids, or for some reason?
 
Are your lady bugs sticking around without the presence of aphids?
 
I had more ants than ever this season also.  I think this explains why.
http://insects.about.com/od/coolandunusualinsects/f/antsandaphids.htm
 
This is an interesting pdf file concerning insectary plants.
http://www.ipmnet.org/Posters_and_Presentations/Farm_Insectary_Plant_Manual_Draft2_Pressqual1.pdf
 
EDIT: I did a little internet sleuthing and came up with the info that lady bugs need both pollen and insects to survive, and stick around.  So, I guess the beneficial plants supply the pollen side of things.  That still leaves the insects/food.  It almost seems like a catch-22 situation where you need bad bugs to attract good bugs to eliminate the bad bugs that you really don't want there to begin with... :confused:
 
http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/beneficial/attract-ladybugs.htm
 
 
 
Click to expand...
 
Great links - thank you Roguejim. These are very helpful. Definately worth keeping close at hand fro reference.
 
I can only speak for my own experiences this season thus far. Ladybugs are not hanging around. I guess more aphids elsewhere :) But I am sure if aphids to break out, we will see lots of Ladybugs hanging around.
 
But now what to do with Whitefly lol those buggers are a plenty and a pain to get rid of. There is a company locally that breeds a type of parasitic wasp that preys on Whitefly... may have to give that a go!
 
Why not just buy some if needed?

I mean just to get a jump on things! I like the flower/shub idea and it sounds like if they're happy they'll stay.. They are fairly inexpensive.
 
I had some problems with an aphid infestation inside, don't know where the buggers came from than outside.
At first I didn't know what to do, then I tried the soap solution, to too little avail, then also pinching aphids, too much work and time-consuming.
Then I went and collected ladybirds for 2 days for at most half hour per day.
And ladybirds gobble aphids, even saw two of them mating today.
 
I too resisted spraying anything his year and noticed what little pests I had seemed to stay in check. Then as the California heat cooled down a couple of weeks ago I thought it would be safe to use some neem oil without  burning my plants, as I had only a couple of plants showing some aphid activity, but thought I would finally take some action. The neem oil worked for a few days but the aphids now started spreading to other plants that were originally completely aphid free until I sprayed. Luckily I have pulled 90 percent of my crop already or I would be battling a much bigger problem. Yeah, the more I do this the more I'm inclined to let nature take its course. 
 
A further response on Gardenweb.com:
 
Posted by lazygardens PhxAZ%3A Sunset 13 (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 19, 14 at 10:54
 
It is a bit of a paradox. What you will end up with {by not spraying} is a low, sustainable aphid population held in check by the predators. After a couple of years you will have a population of over-wintering predators built up to reasonable levels and the initial population boom in the aphids is lower.
My ladybugs hibernate in the peeling bark of the mesquite trees. I don't know what the lacewings do. But every year, as soon as the brittlebrush and milkweed gets encrusted ... there they are.
Look. The aphids this season were not noticed by me until they were thick. Where the h--- were the predators if aphids attract predators?
Maybe they had no reason to visit your garden ... if you had been spraying chemical insecticides in previous years it takes time to switch to predatory insects.
Do you know what the eggs and larvae of syrphids, lacewings and ladybugs look like? And can you tell a dead aphid from a live one? You may have had eggs or larvae on the plants, but didn't see them or didn't know what they were.
 
I dont really think I agree with this. (the gardenweb poster)
I mean, plenty of people don't notice an aphid problem until its "too late" or its already taken hold.
 
By the posters logic this would never happen as when the aphids show up in force, so do the predators. (I don't agree, well i think they do/will show up, but usually not in enough numbers to keep an actual infestation in check). By the posters logic, those who found an aphid infestation were lucky they even saw it! Because soon the good insects would have been in to clean up and save the day (yea right!)
 
I think in the wild this may be applicable, but i think with peppers, we create the environment or ecosystem which sways the favor towards the aphids, we have 10 pepper plants (which the aphids love) for every one weed or companion plant.
 
IMO, In the broadest sense most of us have too many pepper plants and not enough "other stuff" to create a real eco-system
 
I didn't do anything to control aphids this year and had plenty of predators around.  There were aphids here and there but no serious infestations.  Most serious organic growers will tell you that the presence of insect predators in your garden is a good indicator of a pesticide-free healthy food web.  Spiders are a must.  Young spider nymphs in the garden will do wonders for decimating an aphid population. Some of my champions this year were wheel bug nymphs, little black and red aphid slaying critters that matured into full grown tyrannosaurus rex bugs just in time to decimate the Japanese beetles and potato bugs.

This might be a helpful link
 
http://www.slideshare.net/NancyXerces/southern-sawg-farming-for-beneficial-insects-pollinators-predators-ssawg-15-to-18-jan-2014
 
ikeepfish brought up a good point. As much as spiders freak some people out, the handle business when it comes to killing insects. I had several spiders hanging around my plants and now I know why, the aphids where there I just didn't see them.
 
So you grow plants and let them invade your protective plants.
 
So you raised a colony of aphids on other stuff so once they reach critical mass they can really mess with anything nearby.
 
Doesn't sound like any kind of a solution to me in the long run.
Been there,done that.
 
I get Aphid wasps and other aphid eaters in the first place.
 
Stalling is all the aphid attracting plants only adds to your problem.
Kill ALL aphids!
Wasps were expensive but I have no winter-also lots of places next door for aphids to feed the wasps.
I haven't seen an Aphid on my plants in years since I used them(5+yrs. at a minimum).
I've seen 1 or 2 mummies though.
I used them indoors,never saw them after the aphids were gone,BUT they were outside.
From what I read they follow the aphids around,went from my plants to outdoors.
They go where the aphids are,I read they are good for long distance tracking.
 
Is the expence of the wasps more than the cost of growing your plants?Cost of seeds?
I doubt it especially if you are growing $,75 cent seeds and whatever soil etc. costs before aphids kill or disease your starts.
 
^yup, each thing is just another weapon in the battle vs the aphids. One can give them no quarter.
 
Iv got loads of mummified aphids on my leaves, but i still spray with some pretty mean stuff. I need a combination to keep things at bay. As of last weekend, I now have 16 marigold plants(up from 3) also to bring in more beneficial insects :)
 
IMG_0044_zpsa135422d.jpg
 
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