A spade is a spade right?

RobStar

RobStar

I've not really paid much attention to this.  But it would appear that:  7 Pot Burgundy and 7 Pot Brown are the same thing but not the same cultivar.  The Chocolate 7 pot - hmmmmmmm it's a Douglah (remember this, it's important).  Now.  Things get interesting - I have been trying to figure out what's what and how did these things come about.
 
I don't believe that all of these originated as cultivars in Trinidad.  Some of them are either determined or accidental breeding attempts.  The white 7 Pot is an example - yellow 7 Pot x white habanero.  Now let's look at the Douglah.  The name alone implies that it is a cross of sorts.  
 
For me a Douglah has a very strong passion fruit flavour.  And it is hot  I love it - definitely one of my favourites.  What else has a very strong passion fruit flavour?  The Congo Black.  My basic guess would be jonah or red 7 Pot x Congo Black = Douglah or Chocolate 7 Pot.  I prefer Douglah as a name though.  I prefer the original (no out-crossing) landraces to maintain the name and the new out-crossed cultivars to be named differently (e.g. the white 7 Pot isn't actually a 7 Pot).
 
Back to the Brown/Burgundy 7 Pot.  Same same but different.  I have not experienced the Brown 7 Pot but I have experienced the Burgundy.  They look very similar.  I reckon the Brown is a 7 Pot crossed with a Congo.  Same for the Burgundy.  The taste of the Burgundy is quite a give away - as is the texture - very thick fleshed!  The taste definitely has that Congo influence.  I like it though.  Much the same as the CARDI Yellow Scorpion also tastes quite different to the Scorpions proper (it also contains quite a bit of Congo in it).
 
That's my pointless post for today.
 
Cheers
 
Not pointless at all! I was convinced, until about 2 weeks ago, that the Douglah and the 7 Pot Brown were the same thing. Now that the plants are more mature, the differences in the pods really stands out. I haven't grown anything labeled Chocolate 7 Pot, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Douglah or a 7 Pot Brown.
 
I also have some 7 Pot Burgundy's and they seem quite different from both the Douglah and the 7 Pot Brown. My burgundy pods start off VERY pale green and go through a pink-ish phase before fully ripening to a deep red. Douglah and Brown are dark green when unripe, then go straight to a purplish brown.
 
I am sure there are so many variations floating around the community that everyone is going to see different results. This is just what I see in my garden.
 
It is my understanding though that the Douglah is not a cross created by the pepper community but actually a wild variety found in Trinidad as I have seen Douglah's for sale in local markets in Trinidad long before this site ever existed or before the 7 pot made its way out of Trinidad and into the waiting hands of pepper enthusiast the world over. That would mean that the Douglah would be a local cross of some sort in Trinidad either by chance or by a farmer growing what would have been needed to make the cross.
Remember in the Caribbean, there is no preference over red and yellow peppers and all are grown together, once it is of the same variety, that is scotch bonnet or hab or 7 pot. They are all sold together also in large bins as just either a 7 pot etc no matter what the colour is so they make no effort to separate different colour plants so colour crosses are very common.
Douglah in the end I would say is a local Trinidad cultivar as just the name would give that away. In Trinidad and other Caribbean islands, a Douglah is a mixed person. Someone which is half black, half white or half Indian and white or half Indian and black. In the end their skin comes out a light brown colour and they are called Douglah or Shabin. Please I am just referencing local culture so do not shout this thread out for inciting racial prejudice. It makes sense that a brown pepper would be locally known as a Douglah.
 
2 of my friends (a couple) lived in Trinidad for 3 years, and sent me several seeds along with pictures. As Dan said, it's very common to see several types of peppers sold together at the market, and most of the time they were just sold as Scotch Bonnets in my friend's experience. 
 
What TGPS said is also very true. There are many variations floating around with the same names. 7 Pot Yellow for example. I've seen super gnarly pods (which some call Brain Strain Yellow lately), smooth pods that look like ordinary yellow habs, some halfway in between, and some that look more like Scorpions all called the same thing. Just because I'm growing Douglah's doesn't mean they are the same as the Douglahs you are growing. They could be completely different peppers. Last year I grew Primos from 3 different seed sources. You guessed it... all 3 were different.
 
muskymojo said:
most of the time they were just sold as Scotch Bonnets in my friend's experience. 
Click to expand...
 
This is very true also! In St. Lucia, everything is sold as a scotch bonnet but I can tell the difference between the shapes of a bonda ma jaque, habanero or scotch bonnet that is being sold, all under the scotch bonnet name. Since those three are the only hot peppers grown commercially for sale in St. Lucia, those are all you will find and sometimes even you can find a bin with a wide mixture of these three and they are just labelled as "hot peppers."
 
The real adventure begins when you buy a large bag of seasoning peppers and one of them is a bonda ma jaque hidden in there, but looks all the same. Many a pot has been ruined that way.
 
Awesome thread. I really like the info you guys are bringing. Keep it up because, I am here to learn and have no insight on this topic myself.
 
I wonder if anyone considered that different stuff was due to the same thing being a Landrace variety?

A LOT of stuff these days is called a NEW STRAIN of whatever when it isn't.

It's just a variation of something due to growing conditions.Maybe a Cross?

Both,IF grown in the sane conditions are the same thing.
I'm not talking about crosses or strains.
Example:
Grow out a DOUGLAH that turns red
Call it a red douglah.
For sales or?

NOT A DOUGLAH in my opinion,a cross or whatever,Ya I know Douglagh means a mixed race,BUT Douglah was an established name for a specific,brown,most times super hot, pepper before people decided to use the name out of context to sell stuff as other than( not a douglah),red podded pepper.
Call it a red super,it isn't a douglah.
Douglah neans mixed race but that ended up as an excuse to sell red or whatever versions called Douglah,
Douglah means nothing anymore.It used to be a superhot.
Now you can call anything a red or whatever Douglah.
At one time,in my opinion Douglah was hotter than anything around.
Douglah once meant a super hot brown pod.B
rown pods with a red flesh inside meant a cross...
Dougah,was close to the hottest pepper around back then.

Like the Morouga Blend and others at the time.They were pretty much stable but were either nuclear or hab hot+.
Names mean too much these days.

Things are way out of hand.
The craze for growing the latest super rules.

Not cool in my opinion.
Sad state of things to come I'd guess...
 
Well all I know is that the Douglah is a completely different chilli then the 7 pot/pod Brown nowadays regardless of its Origin. There is so much genetic similarity between so many pods and varieties good luck deciphering origins
 
from looking at pictures of peppers watching reviews reactions testimonies ex...,,now a days ,,seems to be as much of a hobby as growing a few for me, my WEAK assumption's would be
1), 7 pot white is not a 7pot...
(2) 7 p0t burgundy has a lot of hab or congo pepper thus not a true 7pot,
(3)there are about 3 dif 7 pot yellows floating around a smooth one ,a ruff pimply regular one probably a real one ,, and a scorpion shaped one..if 80% of pods are scorpion shaped call it a scorp.
4)then there are 2 diff choc bhuts a smooth and a ruff one im growing a ruff one this year,,
(5),,since we are in to bhuts to me the white, yellow ,orange, and purple ,bhuts are all crosses,, and not mutations not sure about peach bhut or choc look kinda legit..
6)the red 7s are all over the place, original, johnah, cardi, giant, long, short, barckpore, but one thing I can tell you the 7 p0t,barackpore,, at least the ones Im growing no ripe pods yet) is not a real 7 pot,but a 7pot X but it is a real superhot, (had this discussion with a friend) it has naga in it, It is evident to me that it grows like a naga the leaves look like naga leaves the steams branching Naga, has smaller flowers like a naga and is super productive like a naga, unless mine is a cross it looks very similar to the black nagas im growing they are all unripe and look identical other than the pods are longer on the nagas witch are supposed to be a natural variant OF giant,or king naga,, even the green hue of color on pods is the same between the 2, no there was no seed mix up,,as I got the black naga as small plants,
(7)I think a douglah is a cross between a 7 pot brown and red 7pot and as advertised a mixed chili that can throw out red pods since red is dominant,,
I think there was first a brown then a douglah just that the douglah came to USA first and there are browns called douglas and douglahs called browns same thing with moruga blends, brains, and moruga scorps,
so in conclusion we have what are for sure 3, 7 pots a red, brown, and yellow, 3 shapes round, long, scorpion, so about 9 distinct combination to start with but a ton of texture shape combinations,,,here are 3, 1) a red 7,long shape,2) abrain strain 7 round shape, 3)Trinidad scorpion, scorp shape, The flavor, pimplines, heat variation, can make em all strains and variants,, but Im sure genetic studies would show similarity everywhere,
for the Nagas bhut jolokia and naga morich were the originals,,there have since came about giant bhut, bih jolokia, choc bhut,peach bhut a burgundy bhut, king naga, black naga, dorset naga, the dorset is just a more isolated and consistent naga morich,, the Burmese looks similar to giant naga with blunter tip on pods,and I have probably forgot to mention 10 or more variants of both Naga or 7pots,there are so many floating around, THIS IS ALL OF MY Observations IM NO GURU OR EXPERT AND VERY NEW TO SUPER or ultra hot Chili's 2 YEARS EATING AND GROWING A FEW VARIETYS and THESE ARE MY THEORYS IT WOULD SEEM Chris,cmpman1974 hope I got his name right would know much better than me since he's got years and years in the hobby obsession or game of capsicum wars LOL. And some of the seed vendors got seeds originally from him is what I hear..hope he chime s in too educate us,, my 22 cent spill is done.. please be nice if yall see it any different because im sure im wrong on a few right on a few...
 
So its a few months down the line.  I've looked more closely at these things and have some ideas:
 
1)  7 Pot Burgundy is a Congo.  Burgundy Congo.  The shape, thickness of the flesh and the flavour/aroma are all Congo-like.  Nothing 7 Pot about it actually.
 
2)  The CARDI Yellow Scorpion is a multiple out-cross (I don't use "hybrid" when only one species is involved - it's an out-cross.  A hybrid is between separate species e.g. annuum x chinense OR subspecies of a species.) involving Congo/Scotch Bonnet and Yellow phenotype of the Trinidad Scorpion.
 
3)  The Douglah (as its name implies) is also of mixed origin.  I will stick with 7 Pot Red and either Congo Black or Jamaican Chocolate Scotch Bonnet (same thing?).  The flavour profile best fits this "marriage".
 
4)  7 Pot Brown is a bit of a problem child.  It could actually be a brown sport of the 7 Pot.  Judging by the less luscious  thin walls of the pod (compared to Douglah) I am inclined to think that it is a 7 Pot and not an out-cross.
 
5)  Many of the "accepted" 7 Pot landraces from Trinidad - Barrackpore etc, are open pollinated out-crosses.  many of these plants originated as "backyard specials" from markets.  Even if the phenotype has somewhat fixed by now the truth is they could be of multiple parent origin - things we would classify as Congo/Scotch Bonnet/7 Pot/Scorpion etc.
 
I would like to attempt some of these crosses and see what happens - in particular I would like to re-create the Douglah and see what's really going on.  Not gonna win a Nobel prize or change anything for that matter but it would be interesting.
 
6) We need a Registry for cultivar names.  This is one way to stop the ridiculous proliferation of multiple names for the same thing.
 
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