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fertilizer absolute NPK values ... 2-1-3 vs. 20-10-30 fertilizer

hi there,

I have a Q.:

a 2-1-3 fert is the same as a 20-10-30 fert if I dillute the latter in 10 times the water, right?


why do those "weak" ferts exist then, if I can get one 10 times as concentrated for nearly the same price ...

.... or am I missing something here?

thx
Al
 
nkp is simply a ratio.

to know relative strengths you need alot more information namely %ingrediant per weight.

what do you mean by weak ferts? liquid ferts?
granular solid bagged type ferts can be slow release or top dress, or even soluble types meant for direct fertigation like scotts peat lite special. one 60 dollar bag will do something like 3,000 gllons of water.
 
Not all components of a fertilizer are easily soluble in water. Mixing a 20-10-30 product with water might not produce the results you expect. Also, industrial grade fertilizers sometimes have other design elements like extended release and are intended to be applied in their dry form. Dissolving them in water woud ruin that.

Why do low NPK ferts exist? Because they are easier to work with in a backyard garden setting. If you try to spread around a 20-10-30 product with your bare hand you will end up with chemical burns. Same thing with your plants, if application is uneven and you end up with a little pile in one spot, that area will be way too hot for normal plant growth. Really concentrated products are almost all made in a chemical plant and some people don't like that.
 
If you try to spread around a 20-10-30 product with your bare hand you will end up with chemical burns. Same thing with your plants, if application is uneven and you end up with a little pile in one spot, that area will be way too hot for normal plant growth.

lol god damn dude, what do yo fertilize with KOH prills? are you growing plants in a bucket of acid?

\i think you are confusing anhydrous ammonia with fertilizer salt type prilled compounds. Anhydrous ammonia is NOT available to the public, nor is it even applicable to your lawn without an expensive piece of equipment, so i dont see how one could handle it. furthermore anhydrous ammonia is to be stored as a pressurized liquid, owing to its volitle nature. getting it on your skin will cause grievous injuy if not promptly washed off. i dont know the numbers by anhydrous will suck up many many many times its weight in h20, it dosent care if that H20 belongs to your skin or to the soil. minor cases are treated without incident, however sever cases such as when one is exposed to a spill or accidentally sprayed are terribly grievous, i dare you do google ammonia burns.

NOTHING inside any bagged 20-10-30 fert will give you "chemical burns" however. i suppose if you were to make a dope and paint it all over your body for a stupid period of time... however saying they will chemically burn you is ludicrous.

ive had on MANY occasions contact with almost every concievable salt one would use in a fertilizer compound, and i can tell you that they are more benign than most chemical i stor under my sink. acids for ph adjustments are an exeption to this however, they are neither in an NPK prilled fertilizer, nor are they something you could even handle with bare hands. regardless i have had my share of 12 molar ~35% HCL and fairly dilute H2SO4 on my hands and it is difficult to burn yourself in much the same manor it is to burn your hands holding it over a candle... a few seconds of exposure and you are greeted with a distinct painful tingle that feels like hundreds of ant bites, a few more seconds leaves you with a roaring burning sensation, 10 to 15 seconds exposure to decently concentrated HCL on dry skin results in an observable discoloration of the skin with no observable reddening. the same when in the mouth is reminiscent of 9v battery. i describe it as 15x 9volt batterys electric shock+ a startlingly sour taste .
ask me how i know?

H2SO4 is a different beast, however it is almost never used in concentrated forms owing to expense and the dangers associated with storing it in plastics and in general. same for HCL, the cheep stuff is sold at around 35%, and is not terribly dangerous to the non dim witted.

the stuff sold as ph down is even more fool proof. i suspect i could bath in the stuff. however i attribute this to greed on the part of the hydro companies rather than to concern for safety. nitric acid is comparitivly expensive, and hence is often diluted down to laughable levels. i would require over 200ml of gen hydro PH down to drop my tap water by itself down to 5.5. i accomplish this with between 25and 30 ml of 12 molar hcl.

what you WILL notice when you handle many fertilizer salts, is they WILL draw moisture right out of your skin and cause irritation. the daft will undoubtedly ignore this risk and persist, and wind up with red irritated hands after a long time, however calling this a chemical burn is ludicrous. chemical irritation maby...

please show me a run of the mill prilled fertilizer that will burn you because im genuinely interested.
 
i have potassium nitrate.....the last number is 42.......it will not burn you.....

indeed, because NPK has nothing to do with reletive concentrations. its just a ratio.

when you have a product that is not divisible into whole integers by 10 you must divide it by 1.

i have something that is 66% nitrogen and 33%phosphate, i can not say its NPK is 6.6 - 3.3 - 0.
i must divide by 1 and get 66-33-0

likewise if i have a component that is already a single digit i cannot simply it period. or you wold get fractions of an element.



the whole NPK thing is dumb to begin with. it combines all nitrogens together which is not helpfull at all. you want to know how much nitrate ... in what form, and in what relationship with ammonium.
likewise you need to know what you are getting your phosphate and potassium from too, MKP or DKP? they have profoundly different effects on the PH of a final solution and soil ph as well.

i find things alot easier when you just start from scratch with raw salts rather than depending on others to source what ever purity salts they see fit to sell you... and then decoding what salts they used and in what amounts and just hope its accurate.

edit: see post 17
 
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)] the daft will undoubtedly ignore this risk and persist, and wind up with red irritated hands after a long time, however calling this a chemical burn is ludicrous. chemical irritation maby...[/background]

You mad bro?

OK, we'll call it chemical irritation. Red skin, kinda painful, gets itchy later...like a burn? I have seen plenty of retail lawn and garden products that have big fat "DO NOT APPLY BY HAND" warnings on them, so somebody thinks it's a bad idea to put it on your skin.
 
applying by hand leads to terrible consistency, and its a very common problem resulting in patches of grass that are burned by this poor practice. also it should be noted that almost all of the big name manufacturers of big box lawn fertilizers also sell applicators, so there is a degree of profit motive in that as well.

i would, defer to the msds for any and all warnings with respect to skin, eye, swallowing hazards.

i love how you can make the jump from "do not apply by hand" to wretched chemical burns. its truely laughable.
if you truly think red irritated skin is "like a [chemical] burn", then clearly you have no firsthand experience in this area.
 
Oy, fine, the stuff is not going to burn you. I'm still not sticking my hand in it. And for the record, I have experienced "skin irritation" from concentrated H2SO4 and HCl and I once dissolved all the flesh off a rabbit with Carbon Tetrachloride. Is it over? Can we talk about plants again? Please?
 
i believe he is trying to clear up a false statement.....good for the board.

i believe he is trying to clear up a false statement.....good for the board.
 
Plants or humans? I just thought this turned out to be a "Dr. House " chatter.

I just do AACT, so no need to be worried about fert burn.

What I think is that NPK is just a ratio of how much of NPK it has. if you decide to dilute it it'll just make the fert weaker.

If I get a 4-4-4 fert I can't make it 16-16-16 by doing 4 times the recommended dose.

It's just my thought. So please be aware that I'm not responsible for any damage or loss of life of any kind LOL .

,Vegas
 
you guys were right on this the whole time i think. sorry, i was under the impression that manufacturers interchanged NPK with ratios when ever they wanted, i dont think that is the case however.

here

http://ohioline.osu..../4000/4006.html

you cannot make a 16-16-16 without decreasing the amount of "inert" elements in the actual fertilizer. or adding some thing like 30-30-30 to your 4-4-4 does that make sense?

just calculate how much mass of w/e fertilizer you are using that it takes to to achieve how much nitrogen/ square foot or w/e you need. then apply that by adding that mass X your total square feed to a spreader and spread it all out evenly.

actually, just read the products instructions... in the case of osmocote or a top dress product application rates are based on a release schedule. its not going to be immediatly available to the plants.
 
I just do AACT, so no need to be worried about fert burn.


,Vegas

is the AACT a "full fledged solution", by that I mean that you dont need any synthetic fert? ... the way I understood it, it is a complementary enhancement, but does not provide for they NPK that you (might) need.

or am I mistaken?

cheers
al
 
is the AACT a "full fledged solution", by that I mean that you dont need any synthetic fert? ... the way I understood it, it is a complementary enhancement, but does not provide for they NPK that you (might) need.

or am I mistaken?

cheers
al

I wouldn't know how to explain in detail. It's compost tea, it's way of making nutrients readily available for your plants. Meh.... I'm lost to tell you the truth.

To me it's like this.

-brew the tea with organic material. I use Jobe's organics with biozome and that already has organic material as well as beneficial bacteria and Mycorrhizae.
-wait about 12-24 hrs.
-give to plants about once every 2 weeks.
-plants love it, they get greener and look more happy.

Cayennemist is your guy. He knows a lot about brewing tea and ways to organic growing.

Lmao! I do it and I know it works it's just hard for me to get the right terms and ways of how that works.

Take a look at the "pinned " thread about how to make compost tea/ AACT.

,Vegas
 
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)] i was under the impression that manufacturers interchanged NPK with ratios when ever they wanted, i dont think that is the case however.[/background]

No, that link you gave explains it quite well. 5-5-5 fert is 5% Nitrogen by weight, 10-10-10 is 10% by weight. Some garden products don't have a big X-Y-Z number printed on them, but you will usually see a text box somewhere on the bag labeled "guaranteed analysis" where the useful components will be listed as percent of content so if it contains Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium/Potash you will know how much.
 
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