tutorial All about soil - A great resource I thought I would share

That's still an overwatering issue.  I just lost a rocoto, as it's been raining torrentially here, and I couldn't get a dry out.  It happened exactly like that.
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Orchid bark is no substitute.  It holds too much moisture.  And it's ridiculously expensive.  If you find the pine bark fines, it should be around $3 for a 2cu ft bag.  Orchid bark is going to cost several times that, for a bag that's a fraction of the size.
 
The surface of the soil dries quickly and I've only been watering when the top two inches are parched, so maybe there's some kind of drainage issue towards the bottom. The leaves that have been dropping were also rather damaged by some kind of leaf spot that was present when I first got the plant, though I'm not sure if that's a factor.
 
As far as the bark fines go, I can't find any listed at my local Home Depot or Lowe's. I've heard it gets labeled as soil conditioner sometimes but haven't had any luck finding it under that name, either, only some bark-based composts with questionable reviews.
 
Don't use surface moisture as your measuring stick.  If you need to, get a moisture meter.  Or, just dig your fingers in around the edge of the pot.  You won't have to do it too many times, before you get it.
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The other option is to just let them tell you when they're dry...  Might be best. Overwatering is a hard habit to break, otherwise.  Most people are really bad about second and third guessing themselves.
 
I think the issue might actually be a lack of bottom drainage because I somehow only now noticed that the pot has absolutely no drainage holes on the bottom surface, only on the bottom sides.
 
That's not a problem, unless the holes are like an inch or more up the side of the container.
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You can try elevating the containers to get air circulation under the pots. Some pots actually don't put the holes on the very bottom, just for this purpose.
 
The only pine bark fines I've been able to find locally is the very over-priced Reptibark from pet shops, but I did notice they're selling Scotts Supersoil which is a potting mix made mostly of composted bark and a lot cheaper.
 
Regarding the plant I mentioned earlier, the entire thing started drooping today, and watering it made it perk back up, so I'm not too sure overwatering was the problem.
 
The leaves it was dropping were back from when it was struggling with a pretty bad outbreak of what I assume to be BLS and were speckled with brown spots and other blemishes so I'm wondering if it just decided they weren't worth keeping.
 
 
solid7 said:
That's still an overwatering issue.  I just lost a rocoto, as it's been raining torrentially here, and I couldn't get a dry out.  It happened exactly like that.
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Orchid bark is no substitute.  It holds too much moisture.  And it's ridiculously expensive.  If you find the pine bark fines, it should be around $3 for a 2cu ft bag.  Orchid bark is going to cost several times that, for a bag that's a fraction of the size.
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I've seen where you have mentioned these "pine bark fines" before.  I have never seen them at our local big box stores (Home Depot/Lowes) or at the one garden center that I stopped at.  (They are so proud of their products that they are twice the price as the others so I probably won't go back!)
Where do you find them?
 
Walmart for me.  It's the only place in my area that carries them.  If you do a search around the forum, I've posted the product multiple times, with a link to the description at walmart.com.
 
I've done ton of searching in local stores and I just can't seem to find any manner of relatively cheap fine bark to use in a potting mix aside from the aforementioned seedling-size orchid bark though it's apparently no good.
 
Said bark is around the same price range as various bark-based potting mixes like Scotts Supersoil and G&B Organic potting mix that are available in similar or larger quantities, so I'm wondering if using those to stretch out a coco coir mix would be a good idea considering that they come with natural soil enhancers already added like earthworm castings.
 
I've tried both mixes on their own and they drain very quickly, maybe a little quickly for how hot it gets.
 
Been reading Nan's thread and her soil link spoke of 'sunshine mix4', the link explained its content with 'soil wetter'.
 
What is soil wetter and is it needed...?
Is it missing from my 'lite mix' of 7/2/1 peat/perlite/worm castings/1/2cup fertilizer/1/2 cup powdered eggshell, all per 5gal., is that why its hydrophobic..? Should i add a wetter or do i want hydrophobic soil..?
 
acs1 said:
Been reading Nan's thread and her soil link spoke of 'sunshine mix4', the link explained its content with 'soil wetter'.
 
What is soil wetter and is it needed...?
Is it missing from my 'lite mix' of 7/2/1 peat/perlite/worm castings/1/2cup fertilizer/1/2 cup powdered eggshell, all per 5gal., is that why its hydrophobic..? Should i add a wetter or do i want hydrophobic soil..?
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That mix is not hydrophobic.  Between worm castings and organic fert, it should have no problem holding water.  If you didn't pre-wet the peat when you mixed it - which is really easy when it's in a thin layer - then you just set it in a bottom watering arrangement, and let it wick the water the first time.  So long as you don't let it go bone dry, it shouldn't be a problem. Caveat:  I have had huge problems with "air pruning" pots later in the season, when the roots are fully fleshed out.   They don't sit flat on the ground, so I couldn't bottom water, without having standing water. (and you know... mosquitoes)
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You can use things like Yucca or aloe extract to act as a surfactant - or even soap.  But I don't find it that necessary.  Peat is not nearly hard to wet when it's rolled, as it is when it's uncut.
 
Aged Pine Bark Fines are great because they absorb water when there is an access and then wick water when their is not.  "Green" or non aged pine bark fines act quit differently as they don't absorb / wick water the same way.  I like using Bonsai Jack and although not cheap at $10 a gallon you shouldn't need too much...
 
 
 
LGHT said:
Aged Pine Bark Fines are great because they absorb water when there is an access and then wick water when their is not.  "Green" or non aged pine bark fines act quit differently as they don't absorb / wick water the same way.  I like using Bonsai Jack and although not cheap at $10 a gallon you shouldn't need too much...
 
 
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This is very true.  I use mixes with both in them.  The first two pics are made with aged pine bark fines.  It's a nursery mix that is better than just about anything that I've used in our hot, humid climate.  80% composted pine bark, 10% peat, 10% sand.
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This mix is one that has been "refreshed".  You can see that it has a lot of non-composted pine bark.  This is good, because there are plenty of ingredients that keep it from being hydrophobic, and it the pine bark keeps the structure of the mix, while also fulfilling the role of composted bark, as they naturally age in the container.  I usually refresh this mix every 2 seasons, by adding 30% bark, 30% new peat or coco coir and perlite.  I take 50% of the old material, and recycle it into raised beds.
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solid7 said:
That mix is not hydrophobic. Between worm castings and organic fert, it should have no problem holding water. If you didn't pre-wet the peat when you mixed it - which is really easy when it's in a thin layer - then you just set it in a bottom watering arrangement, and let it wick the water the first time. So long as you don't let it go bone dry, it shouldn't be a problem. Caveat: I have had huge problems with "air pruning" pots later in the season, when the roots are fully fleshed out. They don't sit flat on the ground, so I couldn't bottom water, without having standing water. (and you know... mosquitoes)

Couple rookie questions once again. When does air pruning become a problem..? What exactly does fleshed out mean..?


You can use things like Yucca or aloe extract to act as a surfactant - or even soap. But I don't find it that necessary. Peat is not nearly hard to wet when it's rolled, as it is when it's uncut.
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Made some sFL mix yesterday. Took your advice and wet my peat first. Once I worked in the water the hydrophobic mix finally broke surface tension and got wet wet, I understand now. Only thing is,, If i let my plants dry up till minor droop/wilt,, then the mix is once again hydrophobic..? Guess the answer is to bottom water, need new #5 saucers or trays or something...

Once again solid7, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I like fine tuning all these basics. They seem to be vastly more critical than anything else.
LGHT said:
Aged Pine Bark Fines are great because they absorb water when there is an access and then wick water when their is not. "Green" or non aged pine bark fines act quit differently as they don't absorb / wick water the same way. I like using Bonsai Jack and although not cheap at $10 a gallon you shouldn't need too much...
Click to expand...
My 'aged pine bark fines' have been on back order since spring time. Might as well be looking to buy unobtainium.... Wish there was something else thats readily available for me.
 
acs1 said:
Made some sFL mix yesterday. Took your advice and wet my peat first. Once I worked in the water the hydrophobic mix finally broke surface tension and got wet wet, I understand now. Only thing is,, If i let my plants dry up till minor droop/wilt,, then the mix is once again hydrophobic..? Guess the answer is to bottom water, need new #5 saucers or trays or something...

Once again solid7, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I like fine tuning all these basics. They seem to be vastly more critical than anything else.

My 'aged pine bark fines' have been on back order since spring time. Might as well be looking to buy unobtainium.... Wish there was something else thats readily available for me.
Click to expand...
 
 
When I mix mine, I've always noticed that if you wet the peat first, and add the vermicompost later, I notice a "greasy" or "soapy" feeling on my fingers.  I have always figured that must be bile from the digestive tracts of the worms, because that's exactly what bile does in our intestinal tracts.  It helps to emulsify the chime and any particles of lipids and fats that are present in our pre-digested food.  (also, it helps keep your turds sliding out smoothly)
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If you really need pine bark fines that badly, tell me how much you need.  If it's reasonable, I'll bring some down next time I'm fishing in your area.
 
I've been trying a lot of potting mixes and so far nothing seems to compare to the Pro Mix Ultimate in terms of how well it grows, though I've had decent results just using plain coco coir with a bit of worm castings and perlite (The plants seem to actually grow their roots out even better then with the Pro Mix but don't grow as quickly overall).
 
My attempt at blending the organic potting mix I previously mentioned with coco coir has actually produced worse results then just using the mix on its own, though.
 
If you aren't getting great growth rates with coco coir, you aren't doing something right.  Coco coir requires a pre-charge of calcium.  It also benefits from amendments like humic acid; although a good compost tea once in a while does the trick, too.
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I feed coco coir with CNS17 Grow and get amazing results. 
 
I ordered some CNS17 grow after noticing that some Aji Panca plants I had growing in coir + a bit of earthworm casting kind of ground to a halt after some point despite the roots growing like crazy, and it definitely gave them a kick and made them take off again.
 
As far as the pre-made soils go, the Pro-Mix brands definitely seem like the most bang for the buck as far as what's offered around here goes and haven't had results anywhere near as good as with the myriad other brands I've tried in a comparable price range. I'm glad to have discovered that a place a short drive away stocks the stuff since I only was finding it downtown some 30 minutes away previously. However, I can't help but wonder if there's some kind of amendment I could be adding to the stuff to bolster growth further, since while it works fine out of the bag, the results are just good, not amazing.
 
There's absolutely nothing special about Pro-Mix. It's peat, wetting agents, perlite, and some amendments.  But cut straight to the chase - it's just peat and perlite.  Meat and potatoes.  You can roll your own FAR cheaper than you can buy it, in most cases.  Unless someone in your area has a peat moss cartel.
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I actually prefer the coco coir for growing, due to the fact that it doesn't compact like peat, and won't degrade as fast.  If you've got the CNS17, then you've got a supercharger for coco.  The only real drawback, is that you'll have to add an acidic amendment to get the pH down for the same result as peat.  I have used leonardite, to good effect.  Coco has a far better structure and oxygen holding capacity, IME.
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Amazing results can come from even a mediocre substrate, given the right environment.  Your nutes and media can only do so much.  From that point on, it's all about what's happening with the ambient conditions.
 
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