capsaicin An Experimental Cure for Capsaicin Cramps

I`ve been playing with recipes for a good long time, so I decided to go back to looking how the capsaicin - capsaicin receptor interaction works. I found this paper, below, among others.
 
What it says, basically, is that the binding of capsaicin to the receptor in pH dependent. Binding is both stronger and more active at low pH. Your stomach is roughly pH 1-2, so very very acid. 
 
I wondered what would happen if you rapidly changed the pH of the stomach contents to a more alkaline environment and neutralized the protons. What I did is the simplest experiment in the world. I ate a couple of superhots and waited for the stomach cramps to kick in. Then I drank a glass full of Sodium bicarbonate solution. Astonishingly, the cramps went away inside 5 minutes, never to return. 
 
So far, 3 people have tried this and it has worked each time. 
 
What`s the recipe? 2 tablespoons of Baking Soda in 8oz of water. That`s it. If the cramps do not go away, repeat. If you have indigestion or reflux, you have a lot more acid than usual, so it may take more to neutralize the acid. 
 
Please let me know if you try this and it works, or it does`t work.
 
 
J Gen Physiol. 2003 Jul;122(1):45-61.

Low pH potentiates both capsaicin binding and channel gating of VR1 receptors.
Ryu S[SIZE=.8461em]1[/SIZE], Liu BQin F.


Author information
 



Abstract

Capsaicin ion channels are highly expressed in peripheral nervous terminals and involved in pain and thermal sensations. One characteristic of the cloned VR1 receptor is its multimodal responses to various types of noxious stimuli. The channel is independently activated by capsaicin and related vanilloids at submicromolar range, by heat above 40 degrees C, and by protons at pH below 6.5. Furthermore, simultaneous applications of two or more stimuli lead to cross sensitization of the receptor, with an apparent increase in the sensitivity to any individual stimulus when applied alone. We studied here the mechanism underlying such cross-sensitization; in particular, between capsaicin and pH, two prototypical stimuli for the channel. By analyzing single-channel currents recorded from excised-patches expressing single recombinant VR1 receptors, we examined the effect of pH on burst properties of capsaicin activation at low concentrations and the effect on gating kinetics at high concentrations. Our results indicate that pH has dual effects on both capsaicin binding and channel gating. Lowering pH enhances the apparent binding affinity of capsaicin, promotes the occurrences of long openings and short closures, and stabilizes at least one of the open conformations of the channel. Our data also demonstrate that capsaicin binding and protonation of the receptor interact allosterically, where the effect of one can be offset by the effect of the other. These results provide important basis to further understand the nature of the activation pathways of the channel evoked by different stimuli as well as the general mechanism underling the cross-sensitization of pain.


 
 
Good tip. I've used baking soda on occasion as an emergency antacid. It works well, but keep in mind that it's loaded with sodium. According to the web, there's 1,259 mg of sodium in 1 teaspoon of baking soda. So if my math is correct (3 tsp = 1 tbsp), that's  7,554 mg of sodium in 2 tbsp. Enough to keep you up at night listening to the blood rush in your ears, and/or give you the green apple splatters in the morning. Even so, probably better than raging superhot cramps.
 
Nigel said:
J Gen Physiol. 2003 Jul;122(1):45-61.
Low pH potentiates both capsaicin binding and channel gating of VR1 receptors.
Ryu S[SIZE=.8461em]1[/SIZE], Liu BQin F.
Author information
 

Abstract

Capsaicin ion channels are highly expressed in peripheral nervous terminals and involved in pain and thermal sensations. One characteristic of the cloned VR1 receptor is its multimodal responses to various types of noxious stimuli. The channel is independently activated by capsaicin and related vanilloids at submicromolar range, by heat above 40 degrees C, and by protons at pH below 6.5. Furthermore, simultaneous applications of two or more stimuli lead to cross sensitization of the receptor, with an apparent increase in the sensitivity to any individual stimulus when applied alone. We studied here the mechanism underlying such cross-sensitization; in particular, between capsaicin and pH, two prototypical stimuli for the channel. By analyzing single-channel currents recorded from excised-patches expressing single recombinant VR1 receptors, we examined the effect of pH on burst properties of capsaicin activation at low concentrations and the effect on gating kinetics at high concentrations. Our results indicate that pH has dual effects on both capsaicin binding and channel gating. Lowering pH enhances the apparent binding affinity of capsaicin, promotes the occurrences of long openings and short closures, and stabilizes at least one of the open conformations of the channel. Our data also demonstrate that capsaicin binding and protonation of the receptor interact allosterically, where the effect of one can be offset by the effect of the other. These results provide important basis to further understand the nature of the activation pathways of the channel evoked by different stimuli as well as the general mechanism underling the cross-sensitization of pain.


 
tl;dr 
The receptor for capsaicin is also triggered by heat and acids, meaning anything warm and acidic is a bad idea. The reverse is true also, and using high pH foods makes the capsaicin have a harder time making stomach hurt.
 
Hm. I have an Alkaline water machine that pumps out 9.5 drinking water. I haven't actually had cap cramps? What do they feel like? I sometimes feel sick though :p
 
I'll try some fresh made alkaline water next time I eat mah peppers when I get home, maybe it'll help.
 
Nigel said:
I`ve been playing with recipes for a good long time, so I decided to go back to looking how the capsaicin - capsaicin receptor interaction works. I found this paper, below, among others.
 
What it says, basically, is that the binding of capsaicin to the receptor in pH dependent. Binding is both stronger and more active at low pH. Your stomach is roughly pH 1-2, so very very acid. 
 
I wondered what would happen if you rapidly changed the pH of the stomach contents to a more alkaline environment and neutralized the protons. What I did is the simplest experiment in the world. I ate a couple of superhots and waited for the stomach cramps to kick in. Then I drank a glass full of Sodium bicarbonate solution. Astonishingly, the cramps went away inside 5 minutes, never to return. 
 
So far, 3 people have tried this and it has worked each time. 
 
What`s the recipe? 2 tablespoons of Baking Soda in 8oz of water. That`s it. If the cramps do not go away, repeat. If you have indigestion or reflux, you have a lot more acid than usual, so it may take more to neutralize the acid. 
 
Please let me know if you try this and it works, or it does`t work.
 

J Gen Physiol. 2003 Jul;122(1):45-61.

Low pH potentiates both capsaicin binding and channel gating of VR1 receptors.
&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=12835470]Ryu S1, &cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=12835470]Liu B&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=12835470]Qin F.


Author information
 



Abstract

Capsaicin ion channels are highly expressed in peripheral nervous terminals and involved in pain and thermal sensations. One characteristic of the cloned VR1 receptor is its multimodal responses to various types of noxious stimuli. The channel is independently activated by capsaicin and related vanilloids at submicromolar range, by heat above 40 degrees C, and by protons at pH below 6.5. Furthermore, simultaneous applications of two or more stimuli lead to cross sensitization of the receptor, with an apparent increase in the sensitivity to any individual stimulus when applied alone. We studied here the mechanism underlying such cross-sensitization; in particular, between capsaicin and pH, two prototypical stimuli for the channel. By analyzing single-channel currents recorded from excised-patches expressing single recombinant VR1 receptors, we examined the effect of pH on burst properties of capsaicin activation at low concentrations and the effect on gating kinetics at high concentrations. Our results indicate that pH has dual effects on both capsaicin binding and channel gating. Lowering pH enhances the apparent binding affinity of capsaicin, promotes the occurrences of long openings and short closures, and stabilizes at least one of the open conformations of the channel. Our data also demonstrate that capsaicin binding and protonation of the receptor interact allosterically, where the effect of one can be offset by the effect of the other. These results provide important basis to further understand the nature of the activation pathways of the channel evoked by different stimuli as well as the general mechanism underling the cross-sensitization of pain.
 
 
Nigel,
My friend, THE PEPPERNATOR, has been doing this very thing, but, found the relief to be short lasting. Subsequent doses were less effective. Perhaps, he needs to use larger amounts of the baking soda. I don't have any other details on his methodology, but, I will talk with him this weekend. What will your next experiment be, perhaps drinking the water/baking soda prior to eating the superhot?
 
EDIT:  Click on the video below, and fast forward to 14:00.  He talks for about 1 minute, and then drinks the "cure",  It works instantaneously, but the pain returns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2tSy9ta9aM&list=UUoNKwj7_3BJ0wi8XH0WqcWQ
 
I remember the first time that I used baking soda instead of tums for an antacid.  I just through a teaspoon in some water.  I felt like I was going to explode.  Looked and saw the recommended dose is like 1/4-1/2 tsp.  Can't imagine what two TBSP would feel like.
 
chsy83 said:
I remember the first time that I used baking soda instead of tums for an antacid.  I just through a teaspoon in some water.  I felt like I was going to explode.  Looked and saw the recommended dose is like 1/4-1/2 tsp.  Can't imagine what two TBSP would feel like.
 
Hehe, I was replying to mention this. I took baking soda as an antacid for a few weeks, found it worked much better than any OTC remedies. If you lay down afterwards, expect a feeling much like a balloon expanding in your chest. Walking around after drinking avoids this, and works out the epic burp that inevitably follows.
 
Roguejim said:
 
 
Nigel,
My friend, THE PEPPERNATOR, has been doing this very thing, but, found the relief to be short lasting. Subsequent doses were less effective. Perhaps, he needs to use larger amounts of the baking soda. I don't have any other details on his methodology, but, I will talk with him this weekend. What will your next experiment be, perhaps drinking the water/baking soda prior to eating the superhot?
 
EDIT:  Click on the video below, and fast forward to 14:00.  He talks for about 1 minute, and then drinks the "cure",  It works instantaneously, but the pain returns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2tSy9ta9aM&list=UUoNKwj7_3BJ0wi8XH0WqcWQ
 
I would expect this would happen as your body will always try to acidify the stomach contents in response to an increase in pH, which is why dissolved sodium bicarb is bad for acid reflux - it only makes the stomach produce more acid and can actually result in a lower pH/increase in stomach acid than before taking it. This is why the best reflux treatments usually float on the surface of the stomach acid, only neutralising the surface (where it's needed!!) minimising the increase in acid production.
 
I would still wonder how it would effect the lower GIT as the pH in the caecum/colon will be usually 5-7 with the pH increasing slightly the closer you get to the end! and lower pH is always seen as better, as it allows the good bacteria to grow and inhibits the bad/pathogenic bacteria from growing.
 
I have always wondered what capsaicin does to our gut microbiota, as it obviously affects the inflammatory status, which is a huge influence on the composition of the gut microbiota (I will carry out a study on this at some point, if someone doesn't get there before me!!)
 
I'd say the best cure would be capsazepine - an analogue of capsaicin which acts as an antagonist - i.e. binds with the receptor but does not give a signal/induce pain - therefore stopping capsaicin binding to it - so it would probably be a better preventative than curative treatment - but would still work well imo.
 
I have no idea if capsazepine is toxic or not though ;)  
 
Great idea Nigel.  Based on a tablespoon of Sodium Bicarbonate weighing 15g and having MM of 84g, consuming 2 TBSP means you are eating 0.36 Mole NaCO3. Based on 1L of gastric juice as a 0.1M HCL solution and 1:1 stoichiometry means you should need a maximum of 8.4g Sodium Bicarbonate or just under 2 teaspoons to neutralize stomach temporally.
 
I know this might be an oversimplification as it assumes a closed system but it might be a good place to start. You can always have more later.
 
cruzzfish said:
tl;dr 
The receptor for capsaicin is also triggered by heat and acids, meaning anything warm and acidic is a bad idea. The reverse is true also, and using high pH foods makes the capsaicin have a harder time making stomach hurt.
I know this. I often have a cup of coffee after eating hot peppers. It rejuvenates the burn all over again.
 
I wait for the cramps to wake me up, usually about 2am, and I drink a tall glass of cold orange juice. I go back to bed and the cramps go away. It usually takes about 15 minutes and I go back to sleep. Not much wrong with a glass of orange juice every now and then. I don't mean orange drinks or soda. It has to be real OJ for me.
 
Smokin James said:
I wait for the cramps to wake me up, usually about 2am, and I drink a tall glass of cold orange juice. I go back to bed and the cramps go away. It usually takes about 15 minutes and I go back to sleep. Not much wrong with a glass of orange juice every now and then. I don't mean orange drinks or soda. It has to be real OJ for me.
Soda is usually acidic and bubbly, which wakes taste buds up. I made mistake of drinking a less than cold soda after a pepper once. It was amusing, to anyone who wasn't me.
 
 

Slizarus said:
Hm. I have an Alkaline water machine that pumps out 9.5 drinking water. I haven't actually had cap cramps? What do they feel like? I sometimes feel sick though  :P
 
I'll try some fresh made alkaline water next time I eat mah peppers when I get home, maybe it'll help.

 
It feels kinda like being punched in the stomach. It just kinda seizes up, and you can't move. If you eat anything hotter than a hab on empty stomach you should find out.
 
Robisburning said:
Great idea Nigel.  Based on a tablespoon of Sodium Bicarbonate weighing 15g and having MM of 84g, consuming 2 TBSP means you are eating 0.36 Mole NaCO3. Based on 1L of gastric juice as a 0.1M HCL solution and 1:1 stoichiometry means you should need a maximum of 8.4g Sodium Bicarbonate or just under 2 teaspoons to neutralize stomach temporally.
 
I know this might be an oversimplification as it assumes a closed system but it might be a good place to start. You can always have more later.
 
Ummm what?
 
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