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Another BC Experiment

.........first i'll force you to read a verbose, boring introduction.........then i will get to the topic subject.

I do a lot of experimenting in scores of subjects, growing things is something i just grew up with being raised on a farm, 5 other siblings to contend for food with, we grew a lot of own food. This i hated as i was a 7 year old kid who would have sooner been in the house watching cartoons on 1 of 3 or 4 TV stations we could get on bunny ears depending on which way the winds were blowing.

About an acre of land had to be row planted, peas, bush beans(green & yellow), carrots, cabbage etc., in spring, then weeding all summer to finally picking the produce in the fall. Then, while mom blanched the produce, once cooled we had to freezer bag it and put the stuff into our large freezer. (though we grew some tomatoes it was just for slicing to put on sandwiches, my parents would go to the farmers market and purchase bushels of tomatoes to make what they called chili sauce, we made our own relish as well(green and red pepper).

.........anyways, forty years later, back to my experimenting story in my urban home in freezing snow covered midst of winter. Got an idea, listening to my dwc bubble away with super enriched oxygen from the pump, i got to thinking...."why would oxygen enriched water be of so much benefit when plants absorb carbon dioxide"?

So, i set off on a CO2 knowledge search, i didn't want to interfere with my dwc as it's working fine, so i targeted my germination mini greenhouse(it's full of super hotties). at first i just put a straw under the dome and everyonce and a while just blew a breath of air threw the straw into the dome. I think, it made a small improvement as the barrackpore's leaves look larger, then last week i decided to purchase some club soda, dilute it and water with it. Today, i decided to make a CO2 generator, after an hour, it started to work!

The first picture, is just to show the overview environment, the mini greenhouse germinator is self explanatory, in the old cranberry bottle is a mixture of sugar, quick rise baking yeast and water, a siphon hose was inserted into the top of the juice bottle and the hose then travels under the dome into a small jar of water that also has a small air stone attached(this way i can watch the bubbles).. The second is a close up of it working.

HPIM1945.jpg


So as i was sitting here at my computer, reading up on the health benefits of baking soda, i hear a hissing sound, what the heck is that? after a quick look around i noticed bubbles coming out of the airstone.

HPIM1946.jpg


Not all my experiments work, i had to do some thinking, what if i got the sugar,yeast,water mix incorrect and the jug blows, so in the first picture you see a tote, that is actually where to bottle resides. I can only guess at how long the mix will work, so i put an airstone at the other end of the hose and put it into a jar of water, so i can watch when the CO2 stops producing, plus the water jar is sitting on top of a heat pad, so i bet humidity levels will be on the rise. Also, the yeast expired in 1997. Oh, i used a twist tie to control how fast co2 is being released to the airstone.

Well, now to watch photosynthesis at work.......... thanks for reading.
 
I made something similar for a fish tank I was growing freshwater plants in. Really made a difference in growth. Seems like I monitored the CO2 by checking the ph of the aquarium water. It's been long ago but seem like the yeast/sugar mix produced for quite awhile. Maybe a week or 2.
Cool experiment.
 
Yes, it is cool, this is not an experiment for under water plants, this is for above water plants and the focus is photosynthesis, plants breathing co2 and emitting O2, but first they have to convert the co2 to sugar to feed the plant. the other extreme is i am using this on my super hot seedlings, so if something goes wrong i will lose some babies.


...which reminds me of an old Bruce Springsting(yes i changed the name)song, work with me..........Got a wife and kid that eat Bonda ma Jacques .....maybe someone can help finish the song.
 
since you're already fermenting, try adding yeast (apparently baker's yeast works just fine) to some apple juice and you'll get cider from one end and (hopefully) better plants on the other!
 
I don't get it, i don't understand what you are trying to say, i added sugar, yeast and water to produce a product that will deliver carbon dioxide into the air, it would take a least a week to produce any form of fermentation in the bottle, which would kill plants and that juice won't touch the plants. thus why i am watching the bubbles. what does adding apple juice do?. Water, sugar and natural yeast products. unless you are saying that the natural sugar may supply additional food.... but plants do not absorb sugar(at least in any volume) through their rooting system. they convert their own, through photosynthesis.

alochol will kill plants.

not trying to be controversial, just trying to understand what you are saying... as i pointed out, a lot of my experiments turn out in disastor....which i am trying to avoid but if i can taylor things through proven methods, i'm game.
 
I believe he is saying make hard cider and use the CO2 that is produced as a byproduct in your germination dome. I don't believe he is suggesting to use the hard cider on the plants in any form.
 
ahhhhh, thanks Josh, again you come through with your wisdom, how old are you wise young man?( i would never have guessed that)

I think, i will just keep things as they are and watch as the co2 bubbles fizzle, then remix. my goal is to see improved growth via photo synthesis using the cheapest method possible.

(oh, i really don't need anymore boooze around the house, if anyone has followed any of my past posts, you would realize i have at least 200 litres of various homemade wines lying around and i don't fancy cider)
 
this is a great thread, its too bad that almost 100% of the information reguarding co2 enrichment is based on the traditional indoor crop. ive read quite a bit about co2 enrichment, and it seems there's a few things that have to be taken into account along with co2 levels in order to maximize or to even get noticeable results. the main thing being temperature(mid 80's), and the other being high light levels and good nutrition.

do you have any plans to take this a few steps further? ive thought WAAAAAY to much about how fun it would be to build an obscenely complicated "yeast reactor" from lab glass and some sensors and solenoids. while it would not make sense economically i think i would have a blast trying to get it to work.

i was thinking of something along the lines of a big jacketed glass reactor like this one... but sans the 1500 bucks obiviously
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Chemglass-jacketed-10-liter-reactor-/200538572136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb107c568
and use a pair of stepper motor peristaltic pumps to to remove spent wort to a distillation apparatus that would recover the alcohol, and the other to pump in fresh sterile water.
i would also use an solid addition funnel like this to drop in fresh sterile DME or w/e is cheep.
1723.gif

the whole thing would have to be stirred constantly. you would also probably want to use some of that dow antifoam b to keep the foam in check. that would entail another pump or syringe pump maby.
all the co2 that's generated could be accumulated in a cool looking water filled acryllic tank with volumetric measurements, and you would just open a solenoid and pump in however much co2 you need to maintain 1000ppm or so. when ever its lights out you would pump cold water to the jacket to slow the yeast down untill lights on.
they actually make really cool computer controlled lab fermenters with neat stuff like chart recorders and fancy sensors and such that can do this, but new they can cost more than a bently.



on an unrelated note, i think most people think of c02 as over kill or cost prohibitive, but i like to think about it from a few different perspectives. if you can indeed superimpose the results you see from the traditional indoor crop to that of capsicum plants; using a properly set up co2 system could increase growth rates by 20 30%. thats 20 or 30% less time you have lights running before you can get them outside into the sunlight, or you could have significantly larger plants in the same amount of time ready to head outside. personally i think alot of these really cool grow boxes people use to get seedlings ready to go outside could, with a bit of work be adapted to use co2. obiviously heat/humidity would be the biggest issue with any sealed up grow box, but with most people growing plants in winter the heat issue could at least be mitigated.


if i ever get my aeroponics setup dialed in, i plan on setting up a full blown co2 system, and seeing what i can make happen with full grown plants; probably not much, but what ever.
i plan on going about it a little different however. a while back i bought a co2 sensor on ebay for about 30 bucks, im going to feed that into a PLC(25 bucks on ebay) that will control a very small thankless water heater, which is in effect a water cooled co2+water vapor generator. this however is something ill work on far in the future.
 
wow Tim, i think i pressed your engineering button, you could get a job with the government in co2 "cap'n'trade' storage.

i do not plan to take this any further other than to refill the "must" once the bubbles cease. originally, it all started with club soda but that was surface feeding, then i was going to put baking soda in a jar and add a touch of vinegar and watch it bubble but as i started to analyze things that would just infuse a massive amount of co2 into the little mini greenhouse and i think would disappear pretty quickly. i am helping my kids with photosynthesis homework and then last night as i was sipping brandy "bam" it hit me, i turned out the lights, photosynthesis is sun+co2+heat = sugar, so i had to stumble downstairs and plug my lights back in. also, the germinator is only 10" X 20".

as i surmised from my original plan, the extra moisture from the jar with water sitting on the heat pad is leaving a lot of condensation on the dome, as to shade the grow light, so i have to wipe down the inside of the dome every couple of hours. i will try to cover the jar to retard that action. i really have no way of guaging how much co2 actually is resident under the dome. every time i lift the dome to clear the condensation any build up would just float away(probably directly to the artic ice cap - so Al Gore says). and of the co2 under the dome at what rate would the plants synthesis any co2 and would some plants be co2 hogs and gobble up all the co2 leaving smaller seedlings(like my douglahs) with none. photosythesis releases oxygen, how much o2 is under the dome and would it force out the co2. (i am not an engineer nor a biologist so i don't have the answers and i dread doing a google to find a 1,001 hits on written lab thesis)

it would be nice to see some improvement in plant growth, especially since i get a lot of growth stunt in my soil plants and i would like to see this issue just go away.

it took me a while to build my dwc but once i did and am totally satisfied with the results, i had to move 2 hot lemons and 1 caribbean red as they got to big and i needed the room for my first batch of super hots. actually building and assembling took less than an hour, planning and day dreaming took months(plus i search for the cheapest items possible, as it is made almost all of recycled materials).

thanks for contributing to the thread.
 
yea sorry i nerd out on alot of things, beffore it was plants it was fungus, i still have a 24" x36"x6" hepa filter sitting in a box that was supposed to be a flow hood.

i too would be interested to see if a simple set up like that could provide some sort of growth benefit to seedlings and the like. i like the idea of using a simple seedling tray like that as a mini sealed grow room. controlling the heat and humidity, to get the most out of the co2 however sounds like it would be very hard.
maby someone could do a side by side with a setup like yours to see if anything is gained.
 
i like the self contained grow cabinets that would be another way to create a stable environment.

i have all the stuff to make another dwc and have the container top all stenciled out, now i just have to go to my neighbour and borrow his attachment for my drill to drill the rounded holes necessary to hold my homemade baskets.

........uups, forgot to wipe the dome again.

keep up the creative ideas.
 
.........anyways, forty years later, back to my experimenting story in my urban home in freezing snow covered midst of winter. Got an idea, listening to my dwc bubble away with super enriched oxygen from the pump, i got to thinking...."why would oxygen enriched water be of so much benefit when plants absorb carbon dioxide"?

If I remember correctly (considering the multiple concussions over the years its kinda hard lol) the roots themselves are what benefits from O2 enriched water, the roots require oxygen to absorb. Thus the need for good aeration in soil. Ive heard of people putting hydrogen peroxide in very diluted amounts into thier hydro setups to increase the O2 in water, but I dunno if DWC would benefit from that.
 
.........first i'll force you to read a verbose, boring introduction.........then i will get to the topic subject.



So as i was sitting here at my computer, reading up on the health benefits of baking soda, i hear a hissing sound, what the heck is that? after a quick look around i noticed bubbles coming out of the airstone.

So what did you discover regarding the health benefits of baking soda.
I have been using the maple syrupand baking soda remedy along with magnesium chloride and conventional treatment for my ailment and it seems to be helping.
Can you use baking soda to generate CO2??
 
as i surmised from my original plan, the extra moisture from the jar with water sitting on the heat pad is leaving a lot of condensation on the dome, as to shade the grow light, so i have to wipe down the inside of the dome every couple of hours. i will try to cover the jar to retard that action.

You could move the jar outside of the grow box. Put a lid on it with 2 holes for the hose. One with the air stone at the bottom of the jar and the other right at the top going to the grow box. Kinda like an airlock. You could still watch the bubbles and the moisture should be reduced.
 
I'm 25. Still live with my parents though so not quite wise enough haha.

I was still partially at home at that age as well between temporary live in girlfriends, college, working part time to support myself while at school. wouldn't have changed a thing - actually i should have tried harder to get a government job - for the pension - but during that time our government had strict hiring rules and i didn't qualify.

heard of people putting hydrogen peroxide in very diluted amounts into thier hydro setups

I have used hydrogen peroxide, diluted, for my soiled plants but not in my dwc. and you are correct about the oxygen being absorbed by the roots.

So what did you discover regarding the health benefits of baking soda | Can you use baking soda to generate CO2?

on occasion, i brush my teeth and gargle with baking soda - especially when the wife says "you have laser breath", the baking soda rebalances my ph levels especially after drinking coffee and tea all day giving my body more of an acid base. i am reading more on changing the ph level of my body and alkaline dieting, though i do eat a lot of vegetables and leafy greens and never eat fried foods............... yes, baking soda(sodium bicarbonate) will release carbon dioxide if you had vinegar(in a bowl, add a couple of teaspoons of baking soda, then add a teaspoon of vinegar and watch 'er fizzle).

You could move the jar outside of the grow box. Put a lid on it with 2 holes for the hose

I considered that but then looked at how simple my set up is and said its easier for me just to wipe the lid down. yesterday, i did put a cover over the jar and that seemed to help in controlling the condensation on the dome or at least i didn't have to wipe it down until this morning. i am waiting to here about a job i had several interviews for and if i get the job then i will fix my set up but right now i am at home with lots of time on my hands. i don't know if its the co2 or the humidity level but my barrackpores have really increased their leaf size. douglahs have shown little progress and a yellow 7 is idle. scorpian is doing okay. yellow bhut and choc hab are enjoying their new eco system.
 
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