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seeds Another lamp question for seedlings

orrevs

orrevs

I have a question ive been trying to search around the forum and could not find any good answers.

My question is if this will be good for seedlings?

2x T8 (4000K) 36w that put out 3350 lumpen per T8. That makes it total 6700 lumen's for 72w.
I have 2 of those setups so it bring it to a total of 4x T8 @ 144w 13400 lumen (4000K)
I am only using it for seedlings for there first 3-5 weeks. Then i put them under my 200w CFL or my 400w MH.

I know T5 is better, but i cant find any T5 setup that is in price range only one i can find is from a growstore online that takes over $130 + shipping.
And i found those cheap i got the hole packet for around $50.
I use OSRAM is there any better T8 lights i shold look for? Or do those work with 4000K?
I will post pictures of my setup later ;)
//Oscar
 
Personally, for the last 2 years, I have used nothing but 6500k bulbs. Right now I have, in a 2'x4' box, two 4' dual bulb fixtures. Each bulb is a 6500k bulb. Its supposed to be the closest you can get to true sunlight with a T12. (That or a T8, I cant remember.) Your plants will let you know if they like it!
 
Yes i understand 6500K Is better. I have that on my CFL. But issu is i got over 400 plants and i need somthing to cover great area when in seedling stage. But if theres something better in T8 light way. Point me in that direction. Right now i use cheapo blups ($8) per bulbs.
I was after some T5´s but i couldent find the amateur for that. And all resellers had the T8s so i had to pick that for now. But if i find a good price on T5 ramps i will buy them and build something like 6x T5s. I saw a thread here on the forum where you could buy something similar but shipping to sweden from USA is not cheap :((
 
orrevs said:
Yes i understand 6500K Is better. I have that on my CFL. But issu is i got over 400 plants and i need somthing to cover great area when in seedling stage. But if theres something better in T8 light way. Point me in that direction. Right now i use cheapo blups ($8) per bulbs.
I was after some T5´s but i couldent find the amateur for that. And all resellers had the T8s so i had to pick that for now. But if i find a good price on T5 ramps i will buy them and build something like 6x T5s. I saw a thread here on the forum where you could buy something similar but shipping to sweden from USA is not cheap :((
Click to expand...
Oscar i'm sure those bulbs are more than fine, but personally i selected my bulbs this year based upon this review/comparison: http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/fluorescent.html

Going by the diagrams (and his results), the GE Plant and Aquarium bulbs put out the best combo of red and blue light. I noticed the GE kitchen and Bath lamps finished an honorary second place in his results, and are 1/2 the price of the GE Plant/Aquarium bulbs. I'm guessing the GE K&B lamps makes up for it's wavelength shortcomings by putting out more lumens. I decided to go with GE kitchen and bath this year, both for my T8 lights and my new T12 fixtures i purchased ($10 home depot specials). Here and there i may swap out some singles for a GE plant and aquarium bulb, but i'm not too worried about it. I also use supplementary lighting by the way, in the form of LED's, T5 strip lights, and CFL bulbs with reflectors. I'm overdoing it but 2011 is an experimental year for me.

It almost seems like you can't go by the package ratings, even if the bulb rates 5000k, you almost can't assume it'll have a big blue spike in the wave length. Or sometimes if the bulb is rated for 6500k it might have huge green and yellow spikes (wasted lumens).

So, until i see other fluorescent bulb reviews, i'll only buy GE K&B and GE P&A bulbs.

- Steve
 
think of it like this... lights come in good, better and best.

best is 5000 - 6500K, 4000 is better and 2700 is good, for years all i had was 2700K and my seedlings would grow into the light - meaning they worked.
5000K is suppose to be the actual sunlight that peers through the heavens at exactly 12 noon, then as evening approaches the light that breaks through moves closer to the blue zone(6000). morning has more red zone. plants grow best in 5000K but if your sun is sizzling hot at noon, you would most likely shield you plant from direct sunlight(that is why some growers position their pepper plants to get actual direct sunlight from 3pm on into the evening).

orrevs, i bet you experience the same outdoor lighting conditions as myself, in spring, the sun is very high in the sky, rises very early(4:30-5am) and sets very late(10 - 11pm).

stick with your plan and as better lighting becomes available eventually convert over - best of luck.
 
Jetchuka said:
Oscar i'm sure those bulbs are more than fine, but personally i selected my bulbs this year based upon this review/comparison: http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/fluorescent.html

Going by the diagrams (and his results), the GE Plant and Aquarium bulbs put out the best combo of red and blue light. I noticed the GE kitchen and Bath lamps finished an honorary second place in his results, and are 1/2 the price of the GE Plant/Aquarium bulbs. I'm guessing the GE K&B lamps makes up for it's wavelength shortcomings by putting out more lumens. I decided to go with GE kitchen and bath this year, both for my T8 lights and my new T12 fixtures i purchased ($10 home depot specials). Here and there i may swap out some singles for a GE plant and aquarium bulb, but i'm not too worried about it. I also use supplementary lighting by the way, in the form of LED's, T5 strip lights, and CFL bulbs with reflectors. I'm overdoing it but 2011 is an experimental year for me.

It almost seems like you can't go by the package ratings, even if the bulb rates 5000k, you almost can't assume it'll have a big blue spike in the wave length. Or sometimes if the bulb is rated for 6500k it might have huge green and yellow spikes (wasted lumens).

So, until i see other fluorescent bulb reviews, i'll only buy GE K&B and GE P&A bulbs.

- Steve
Click to expand...

Thats some good stuff there! Thanks for the link!


Burning Colon said:
think of it like this... lights come in good, better and best.

best is 5000 - 6500K, 4000 is better and 2700 is good, for years all i had was 2700K and my seedlings would grow into the light - meaning they worked.
5000K is suppose to be the actual sunlight that peers through the heavens at exactly 12 noon, then as evening approaches the light that breaks through moves closer to the blue zone(6000). morning has more red zone. plants grow best in 5000K but if your sun is sizzling hot at noon, you would most likely shield you plant from direct sunlight(that is why some growers position their pepper plants to get actual direct sunlight from 3pm on into the evening).

orrevs, i bet you experience the same outdoor lighting conditions as myself, in spring, the sun is very high in the sky, rises very early(4:30-5am) and sets very late(10 - 11pm).

stick with your plan and as better lighting becomes available eventually convert over - best of luck.
Click to expand...

Yes we have it like that, i think the 4000K will do just fine as well. As i will only use it on seedlings that i want to grow a bit and dont get leggy.
But i did find a T8 light for a very cheap price as well in 6500K but i dident say the lumen so i mailed them so lets see how much it can put out.

I also find a place for T5 ramps now, so might get 2x of those ramps that holds 2x T5s @ 28w. Am a totaly newb at this lightstuff and i try to learn. I like it alot so far i got the space and the tools to build boxes etc. So if anyone got a cool tip how to maybe build a own ramp for T5s or T8s (should be the same i guess) out of the ramps i alrady have up and running that would be cool. Like how to serial link them. Like on the link Jetchuka posted where the guy had build his own ramp out of 2 another lamps.

Cheers! Happy growing to you guys!
 
orrevs said:
Thats some good stuff there! Thanks for the link!




Yes we have it like that, i think the 4000K will do just fine as well. As i will only use it on seedlings that i want to grow a bit and dont get leggy.
But i did find a T8 light for a very cheap price as well in 6500K but i dident say the lumen so i mailed them so lets see how much it can put out.

I also find a place for T5 ramps now, so might get 2x of those ramps that holds 2x T5s @ 28w. Am a totaly newb at this lightstuff and i try to learn. I like it alot so far i got the space and the tools to build boxes etc. So if anyone got a cool tip how to maybe build a own ramp for T5s or T8s (should be the same i guess) out of the ramps i already have up and running that would be cool. Like how to serial link them. Like on the link Jetchuka posted where the guy had build his own ramp out of 2 another lamps.

Cheers! Happy growing to you guys!
Click to expand...
No problem oscar. Meant to say before, T5 can sometimes be excess money for the small scale hobbyist with a 3-5 week time line for his seedlings. Sure they use less energy but the initial start-up costs are double that of T8. Plus T5's burn hotter, and many here recommend you keep the bulbs an inch or two away from seedlings, T5's would sizzle them up that close. These thoughts are not gospel though, and every light setup has a right and wrong way to use it, just in my mind the T12 and T8's are more forgiving.

I'm a fan of T12 since they run cooler, and growing plants can bump right up against them without sizzling their leaves, this is a good thing since you won't always have to tinker with your Lamp height. T8 is a great compromise though because they don't run as hot as T5's (but still warmer than T12) and retain some of the benefits of T5 lights. T5's are great in multiples of 4 or 6 because it allows you to raise the lamp height to avoid their heat, but still provide enough lumens.

This year i used a coupon to get a good price on this quad T8 setup at Lowes: http://www.lowes.com/pd_283285-1390-GU9804-T8-BKSS_0__?productId=1208545 (Utilitech Model #: GU9804-T8-BKSS, Lowes item # 283285)
I spray painted the hood underneath with a highly reflective silver color to boost the light focus. It runs noticeably warmer than T12 lamps but it's not that bad either.

LowesquadT8008.jpg


I have so many lights stocked up now that i'll never be able to use them all, but prices were dirt cheap and i'm sure my dad can use the extras, he is the former-farmer that inspired me after all ;)

Oh, and about serial linking them, how about a $10 timer? A dual-outlet version will let you plug two lamps apiece.
 
orrev i just noticed your grow log in the other forum.

I did not realize you were growing plants to sell, and i didn't not realize your location, Sweden. So take my advice with a grain of salt, it won't necessarily apply to you especially if you decide to scale up in the future and sell even more plants. You're considerations are a little different than us regular hobbyists.

The good news is there are plenty of pro's here who can help you out in your grow operation.
 
Jetchuka said:
orrev i just noticed your grow log in the other forum.

I did not realize you were growing plants to sell, and i didn't not realize your location, Sweden. So take my advice with a grain of salt, it won't necessarily apply to you especially if you decide to scale up in the future and sell even more plants. You're considerations are a little different than us regular hobbyists.

The good news is there are plenty of pro's here who can help you out in your grow operation.
Click to expand...

Hey Jetchuka thanks for the well formed inputs! I am not growing plants to sell at all.
I grow them for myself and maybe some give aways.
Me being in Sweden is a big problem yes. We have some shit grow lights over here (read expensive).

I found something i am interested in

LightWave T5 4x24 W it goes for about $150 with the lights included.

There is one LightWave T5 4x54 W for about $220. And one LightWave T5 8x54 W for $330.

I am so into those they look good! But for what i need them for they are a bit pricy as i already have a MH and HPS and 2x 200w CFL so dont really need the maximum lumen's.
I dident know T5 put out more heat. I think i will stick with my T8s but still i want to build something like the case in your link. Do you think its hard? If i take parts from the ones i already have? i have been trying to googling it but couldn't find any tips.

Also about the T8 lights you know anygood i should pick? I found some that runs on 6500K just dont know the lumens. Maybe you can point me to the right direction there as i want most out of my T8s ;)
Thanks agin!
//Oscar
 
Building a case? If i'm reading your post correctly, then personally i wouldn't rip the lamps apart, but use or build a "case" that allows you to pair up the T8 lights side by side for a total of 4 bulbs over each grow area. You would fasten your current light fixtures at the top of the proposed case in other words. If your T8 fixtures are not reflective enough then you can always spray the undersides with a reflective silver spray paint, that'll give it more of a mirror appearance. Mirrors (and mylar) help refocus lost light better, whereas a simple white color simply reflects and diffuses it in all directions.

Have you given plastic or metal shelves any thought? They're pretty cheap and allow a lot of growing in smaller areas. Plus it's easy as pie to hang light fixtures on them. You can create "walls" on these shelves by draping mylar curtains on them, or mylar sheets with some flat styrofoam backing on them to create a more solid wall. Mylar and styrofoam also help retain heat and moisture, which may be a benefit in the early Swedish springtime. Just some ideas anyway...

Here's a few shelf examples: http://www.lowes.com/pl_Free+Standing+Shelving_4294857717_4294937087_?Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1

Here's a mylar example: http://www.thehotpepper.com/topic/19678-logchiefs-2011-grow/

Here's a styrofoam wall example: http://www.thehotpepper.com/topic/19985-white-trash-germination-chamber/ (scroll down halfway to see the right pics)
 
I dont think you'll have a Wal Mart or Lowe's in Sweden! lol BUT...For what I have bought, one dual-lamp 4' fixture runs less than $20 US. Then, at Wal Mart, a dual pack of 6500k bulbs are $7 US. So, tax and all, I got each fixture for less than $30. I have 2 in my box right now, but NEXT year will be WAYYYYY different. I couldnt tell you all of the info that makes them do what they do. All I know is that MY set-up works. But, kinda like what Jet said, what works for ONE person may not work for someone else.
MY set-up is a 2'x4' box lined with mylar, then the 2 fixtures with dual 6500k bulbs in each. They have grown AWESOME! My only problem is gnats this year. I THINK I may have a handle on them bastards now though! lol
 
Hot Pooper said:
I dont think you'll have a Wal Mart or Lowe's in Sweden! lol

My only problem is gnats this year. I THINK I may have a handle on them bastards now though! lol
Click to expand...
Lol, ya, i figured out where our Swedish friend was from after the fact.

OT but you better get a handle on those fungus gnats quick HP, the longer you wait, the more hundreds of larva will be festering in that soil. Just today "i think" i saw one in my furnace room, near my plant lights. I waited around a couple of minutes, stirring things around to see if i could see whatever it was again. Hopefully it was only my imagination, or just a fruit fly, but i'm not taking any chances, i'm brewing an extra strong Mosquito Dunks concoction as i type. It's all out war as far as i'm concerned, a pre-emptive strike! :)

I know they are not as bad as aphids, but they can become pests if left unchecked.

Hey Oscar do you guys have fungus gnats in Sweden? Here in north america they're a pesky small black gnat that likes to lay eggs in our indoor potting soils, the larva then feed on everything including plant roots. A real pain if you ask me.
 
Thanks for all the tips!

I have allot of mylar that i dont use atm. That i bought last year. My tough was to use it for this but i dont know why i dident.
The spray your talking about you got any link for it? Or could i use mylar instead as they dont get that hot so dont think it would take fire? ;)

Anyway, what would you prefer T8 6500K 2400lumen @ 36w OR T8 (4000K) 3350lumen @ 36w?
Its for seedlings. My tought is to stick to the 4000K ones. But it would be fun to try the another ones out. Or shoud i maybe combine them 2? like 1 4000K and one 6500K in the same fixture.

Thanks again!
 
I don't know how big of an area you are trying to light with your setup but a 90 watt LED will cover a 4' X 4' area and provide excellent seedling growth...the lights are expensive up front but will pay for themselves in the long run because of less energy expended...IMO for good seedling growth, you need between 1500-2000 lumens/sq ft...I need at least 4 shop light fixtures to cover the same area and don't get near the growth with fluros as I am with the LEDs...4 shop light fixtures is 8 bulbs @ 40 watts each = 320 watts...you can do the math on the savings...after you get over your initial "sticker shock" of the LEDs I think you will like them....

I am not recommending this to you, rather just putting another option out there for you...

this is what I am using...

http://www.amazon.com/Illuminator-5-Band-Tri-Spectrum-Grow-Light/dp/B001J9SYW2
 
AlabamaJack said:
I don't know how big of an area you are trying to light with your setup but a 90 watt LED will cover a 4' X 4' area and provide excellent seedling growth...the lights are expensive up front but will pay for themselves in the long run because of less energy expended...IMO for good seedling growth, you need between 1500-2000 lumens/sq ft...I need at least 4 shop light fixtures to cover the same area and don't get near the growth with fluros as I am with the LEDs...4 shop light fixtures is 8 bulbs @ 40 watts each = 320 watts...you can do the math on the savings...after you get over your initial "sticker shock" of the LEDs I think you will like them....

I am not recommending this to you, rather just putting another option out there for you...

this is what I am using...

http://www.amazon.com/Illuminator-5-Band-Tri-Spectrum-Grow-Light/dp/B001J9SYW2
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. I have been looking at led before. I do like them, they are a bit expensive but in the long run you get the money back for sure.
But i always thought they where better for blooming then grow. I might just buy 2x 90w UFOs instead of 2x 400 MH for the bigger plants. And then i can make a test with seedlings and see if it works good.
I always calculate in the long run so "money" is not the issue. As i know i will be getting the money back after 1-2year of using it.

But my main concern is there is allot of pirates UFO´s on market. How can you tell its a good and legit UFO and not some crappy copy? Is it a special brand i should be looking for? (cant order from amazon) Shipping as almost as much as one lamp.


/Oscar
 
orrevs said:
Thanks for the tip. I have been looking at led before. I do like them, they are a bit expensive but in the long run you get the money back for sure.
But i always thought they where better for blooming then grow. I might just buy 2x 90w UFOs instead of 2x 400 MH for the bigger plants. And then i can make a test with seedlings and see if it works good.
I always calculate in the long run so "money" is not the issue. As i know i will be getting the money back after 1-2year of using it.

But my main concern is there is allot of pirates UFO´s on market. How can you tell its a good and legit UFO and not some crappy copy? Is it a special brand i should be looking for? (cant order from amazon) Shipping as almost as much as one lamp.


/Oscar
Click to expand...

You can check this guy out...I dealt with a guy by the name of Douglass and he was quite cordial...


prosourceworldwide.com
 
Check out htgsupply.com. They are much cheaper and I have always had great dealings with them. I really like the idea they are adding full spectrum (white) LEDs to the mix. Not to mention, their prices are among the best I have seen from any LED suppliers. I'm not sold on them yet, not for seedlings (the 105-watt CFL bulb is kicking butt in a test among the 125-watt LED, 600-watt MH and it for some pepper seedlings!) but if you want to go the LED route, their light seems to be the best I can find.

Mike
 
orrevs said:
Thanks for all the tips!

I have allot of mylar that i dont use atm. That i bought last year. My tough was to use it for this but i dont know why i dident.
The spray your talking about you got any link for it? Or could i use mylar instead as they dont get that hot so dont think it would take fire? ;)

Anyway, what would you prefer T8 6500K 2400lumen @ 36w OR T8 (4000K) 3350lumen @ 36w?
Its for seedlings. My tought is to stick to the 4000K ones. But it would be fun to try the another ones out. Or should i maybe combine them 2? like 1 4000K and one 6500K in the same fixture.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Personally i would use mylar over spray since it is more reflective and you already have it. But if you are looking to coat the undersides of your lights then you may have to use the spray. It's fairly common and can be found at most hardware stores, it would be the one with the shiny silver cap. I could be wrong but the chrome spray may be more reflective than the silver metallic spray i purchased. Here's an example of both: http://www.designspongeonline.com/2010/05/diy-idea-faux-gold-objet-dart-from-erica.html

IMHO your bulbs are perfect, combining a very high lumen count with 4000k. Nothing wrong with combining 2 different bulbs though, many already do, but it's money that's probably best spent on other accessories at this point: specialized nutrients or supplies etc etc.
 
I think i will go with my T8 tubes for now might buy some T8 6500K light to combine it with 4000K light.

But i am also after something for bigger plants and LED is an interested alternative as i have to buy new reflectors and ballast and the MH lamp. I think a LED would be a much money in the end and save alot more while running.

Not sure if i gonna pick 2x 50w or 2x 90w. Anyway i got across something interesting LVD lights for growing. Anyone heard of those? seems to be the new thing in growing. But the price is 2.5x more then LED lamps are.So noway i will be getting those. But LED or MH. Think i will go with LED. The room is around 4ft x 16ft (1m x 5m) the issue is that its so long. Thats why i think i need 2 UFOs and 50w ufos prob will be enuf but if i gonna buy some LED i might as well buy 90w if i want to use them for something new.
am i thinking right here? And there is alot of UFOs out there. The tests ive seen looks like the best is a UFO with more red diodes then blue ones even for growing.

PS! I just love this forum! ;))
 
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