overwintering Another stab at winter growing: Opinions???

AJ Drew

AJ Drew

I asked about the general idea a while ago, but without a video to show the idea I think I fell short of explaining what I am thinking.  Would love input because if I go this route, it is tons of work. 

Underground: Underground / pit green houses in theory will retain enough passive heat to grow things like lettuce in the winter.  From what I have read, warmer crops like peppers just sort of stall out with the lower temperatures.  So how do we increase the amount of heat we can store from the day time?

If you have read anything about underground green houses or even Earth Shelter homes, part of the trick is to use water as a thermal mass to store the days heat and then slowly release at night.  Often, the North wall of an underground green house will have 55 gallon drums filled with water and painted black to hold the heat and then release it.

The video in this link is not underground.  I am linking it because it uses 55 gallon barrels for something else: fish.  He talks about temperature being a challenge for various fish, but two things: He is not underground at all and he is only using some tiny amount of electricity.

Here is the thing I am thinking, underground with this system and an electric water heater with thermostat.  The water has to be circulated, so might as well push it threw a heater, keep the water warm enough for the fish, and all that heat would help to heat the green house.

Thoughts?  My biggest thought is that even if it wont keep peppers going in the dead of winter, it would certainly extend the season wildly and if I raise something like koi, well fingerlings sell for five bucks a fish retail.  So even if the grow doesnt do great, got another product.  That and I very much want to raise fish my kids can pet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3W03YlClmQ
 
I really like your ideas and motivation, ajdrew. I have a question, what do you mean by "underground"? Do you mean in the basement?
 
I love winter growing and indoors in general, and I'll tell you why. The environment is so much more controlled. You lower the risks of pests, environmental stress, unpredictable weather, etc. etc. With indoor, you truly get a much more qualitative grow and in my opinion, a much more intimate grow with your plants.
 
That being said, I think winter growing is a fantastic idea and you should definitely try to shoot for it. However, keep in mind the cost, time and effort you must put in for this concept to work. If you're looking to grow a couple lettuce heads, I don't think that all of this setup is necessary. If you're going to go for this amount of investment, really maximize every growing potential and do tons of plants.
 
If you're simply looking to just lengthen your growing season, this is a great way to do that as well. You just need to ask yourself, does this setup best suit my growing needs? As for the koi idea, that sounds really cool! Maybe you could even harness the fish poop as some fertilizer!
 
The thermal energy idea is really smart and effective when properly executed... The question is, if you're doing all of this underground, how are you going to provide the proper light needs? Also, depending on how large your underground growing area is, how is a 55 gallon barrel going to fare with heating the whole area?
 
Optimal koi temperatures are between 65F and 75F. Would the barrel produce enough heat for your underground space?
 
Overall, my opinion; if you're going to grow indoors, make it worthwhile. You should strive to be able to grow during the winter AND the summer. More plants the better!!! I really like this idea of hitting two birds with one stone, plants and koi in one environment. The only concern is, with all of this investment, would the end result be worthwhile? Just make sure the underground space is able to be heated by the koi tank. My dad runs a saltwater fish tank and some coral tanks in the basement. The humidity is nice and it stay kind of warm. But that alone in the dead of winter, I don't think it would cut it for the plants.
 
Obeychase: The link is to the simplist underground green house I could find.  Others use concrete floors and walls, some use wood.  This one is dig a hole and build a roof.
 
On my intent:  I would love to grow year round but figure if I fall short, I can start much earlier and end much later.  So  figure it is a fail over to success sort of thing.  My high tunnel grows plants in the ground, gives me nearly another month at the end of the year.  I think mainly cause the roots are in the soil which stores lots of heat that time of the year.  Containers loose so much more.  So I figure even if it doesnt give year round growing, controling the temperature of the medium via water heater would seriously extend the season.
 
I can find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_esu0qnKZU
 
someguy said:
Have you given any thought to using a Rocket Mass Heater?
Click to expand...
Yes, but I need things that can let me vanish for a bit.  Nobody here seems capable of so much as keeping water on seedlings. 
 
JDFan said:
Alternatively you could use a compost heap to heat the underground area
 
http://www.uvm.edu/sustain/clean-energy-fund/cef-projects/compost-power-using-compost-power-to-heat-a-greenhouse
 
https://vimeo.com/57554224
Click to expand...
 
The video touches on using compost for heat.  I am thinking you use everything you can that doesnt add to the electric bill, but use electric as a fail over for the nights that are just too cold.

 
 
ajdrew said:
Obeychase: The link is to the simplist underground green house I could find.  Others use concrete floors and walls, some use wood.  This one is dig a hole and build a roof.
 
On my intent:  I would love to grow year round but figure if I fall short, I can start much earlier and end much later.  So  figure it is a fail over to success sort of thing.  My high tunnel grows plants in the ground, gives me nearly another month at the end of the year.  I think mainly cause the roots are in the soil which stores lots of heat that time of the year.  Containers loose so much more.  So I figure even if it doesnt give year round growing, controling the temperature of the medium via water heater would seriously extend the season.
 
I can find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_esu0qnKZU
Click to expand...
 
Sorry man, now that I've clicked the links I'm getting a better understanding of where you're coming from. The concept is awesome!! As long as the koi tank is able to provide warmth to the plants, go for it! I want to research this topic more.
 
Another cool thing to think about, as I've clicked the second link, although snow accumulates on the roof, if there was some way to provide some lighting during those times, the snow acts as a really effective heat insulator. Just a thought.
 
Earth rammed recycled tire walls are pretty well known for their heat retention and are used in the construction of earthship-style dwellings.  Not sure if that's up your ally or not but the building material can usually be had for free because tire recyclers would love nothing more than to give it all away.  You can check out the process here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cer3WKTOcy8
 
I have been kicking around the wallapenna. Think that's how you spell it.lol  Idea for the area i'm in as well. My thought's are to use a coal/wood stove to heat water. Then run it through some cast iron radiator's. Also covering the stove with stone to store up more heat. This idea is at least a year or two off.
 
Somawilt - Have the two books on Earth Ship homes and some friends building one.  Author was trying to consume waste, I think I would have gone with sand bags instead.  Have read that if you put barbed wire between the layers, they flat do not move.  Also, there are some out there that are made with recycled 2 liters.  Amazing stuff people do with what others call garbage.
 
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