Any Idea Why Chiltepins Are Sometimes Referred To As "Semi-Wild"?

[Eephus Man]

I've seen this designation repeated in more than one place and by disparate sources.
 
But I don't understand what it means and how chiltepins would differ in their distribution and growing habits versus other varieties that are referred to as "fully" wild.
 
I'm not a taxonomist, but all the chiltepins growing in my area seem to fit my personal definition of wild as much as any other wildlife we see, if not moreso.
 
Non-sessile animal life are far more likely to benefit directly or secondarily from nearby human interaction than these peppers, it seems.

 

[Nightshade]

They are cultivated by companies on a commercial scale something like capsicum rhomboideum is not
To continue on my last post yes it does grow wild pretty commonly so thats why its both semi wild or semi domesticated.

 

[Eephus Man]

They are cultivated by companies on a commercial scale something like capsicum rhomboideum is not

 
Hmm. Interesting. So I guess most varieties of deer would be considered semi-wild as well, since they are processed by some?
 
Same would be true for anything bred for pets/meat? Ball Pythons? Bison? Macaws? Alligators? Raccoons? Seems an odd definition to me. Would also beg the question of whether there could be no remaining wild species if all are cultivated at least locally/regionally for resale.
 
But I need to note the denotative difference between something that is "semi-wild" and something that is "domesticated".
 
Based on your response, I'm going to move forward assuming that the former is something that has been commercially gathered/produced. The latter is something that depends on human interaction/intervention in order to survive. I was equating "wild" with "undomesticated" I suppose. They are not the same.
 
I just couldn't get my head around how something wasn't fully wild when it required no human interaction to survive.

To continue on my last post yes it does grow wild pretty commonly so thats why its both semi wild or semi domesticated.

 
Hmm. I don't think something can technically be semi-domesticated. It either needs human interaction to exist, or it doesn't.
 
e.g. Coyotes can be kept as pets, but they are not domesticated. Same is true with most of what I listed above. Bell peppers ain't gonna make it without humans.
 
However, most common housepets (dogs are an odd tweener), and large meat mammals would die off in their current form in a very short time without human contact/intervention. e.g. Chickens.
 
I understand the semi-wild thing more...I guess.

 

[Nightshade]

Im not an expert on the matter and have not come up with a way to post what im thinking in an understandable way so maybe someone else can help in the meantime while I think lol

 

[Slizarus]

I think maybe it has something to do with our chosen, bred for taste and size, you know, cultivated seed finding itself back in the wild and when it flowers it affects local populations bringing our cultivated choices into the wild fruit again via pollen and then more people pick those fruit, take them home and plant out semi-wild seed, having been crossed with our choice plants in the past and spread out again by... you guessed it! Birds.

That's my concept of it. Birds eat our chilis, seeds grow elsewhere, next person gets seed from fruit in region a couple generations later.

 

[swellcat]

A member of the genus Capsicum, the chiltepin grows wild in our temperate climate . . . the chiltepin is Texas' only native pepper . . . RESOLVED, That the 75th Legislature of the State of Texas hereby declare the chiltepin the official State Native Pepper of Texas.  — HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION No. 82 at http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/peppers/tx_chiltepin.htm

 
Nice thing is is that tepíns are still showing up wild—unaided by humans, but likely by mockingbirds—in alleys, fencerows, and backyard margins at least as far north as north Fort Worth.
 
This is the only variety for me that has usually withstood freezes, regrowing from roots in the Spring.
_____

 

[Eephus Man]

 
Nice thing is is that tepíns are still showing up wild—unaided by humans, but likely by mockingbirds—in alleys, fencerows, and backyard margins at least as far north as north Fort Worth.
 
This is the only variety for me that has usually withstood freezes, regrowing from roots in the Spring.
_____

Haha! Love the legal reference there.
 
And yes. That's what's going on all around here, too. When we developed the land for my last business (it was previously undeveloped), we found several giant bushes down in the drainage areas of the property. Not sure how long they'd been there, but they came back year after year. That's what made me think that "wild" is still the very appropriate label for them.
 
And here at the house, I've got one huge bush and another small one that have been here since at least the year after we'd moved in (probably previously but I hadn't noticed). That was in '07, IIRC. They're still going, even after last year's hard winter (by Texas standards). I love the things.
 

 

[danish]

I think this has already been answered but it's because relatively recently they were domesticated but then naturalised. We have the same definition for wild boar in England which were driven to extinction until farm pigs started escaping and naturalised within a few generations. They are wild but only semi because they are partly bred and still maintain some of the bred traits. For instance it isn't so far removed from the original breed (or cultivar) that you could get hybrid vigour.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[Eephus Man]

I think this has already been answered but it's because relatively recently they were domesticated but then naturalised. We have the same definition for wild boar in England which were driven to extinction until farm pigs started escaping and naturalised within a few generations. They are wild but only semi because they are partly bred and still maintain some of the bred traits. For instance it isn't so far removed from the original breed (or cultivar) that you could get hybrid vigour. Hope that makes sense.
 

danish,
 
Are you saying that Chiltepins are a formerly domesticated variety that have returned to their "proto-pepper" form? That's what it sounds like. If that's true, it's news to me. I had assumed they were a wild variety that had grown for centuries (or longer) on their own in this region.

 

[danish]

Don't think of it in terms of time, it's how genetically different it is. IIRC the annuum species came into existence through human breeding. At some point the cultivar has grown wild but has not changed or changed little enough to not be considered truly wild but a plant which is the result of breeding.
My dog can go live wild but that doesn't make his breed wild like say a wolf. However after time and possible minor adaptations the breed of his wild descendants could be called semi wild.

 

[Eephus Man]

Don't think of it in terms of time, it's how genetically different it is. IIRC the annuum species came into existence through human breeding. At some point the cultivar has grown wild but has not changed or changed little enough to not be considered truly wild but a plant which is the result of breeding. My dog can go live wild but that doesn't make his breed wild like say a wolf. However after time and possible minor adaptations the breed of his wild descendants could be called semi wild.

 
Hmm. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's correct. I believe chiltepins are actually the progenitor for all other annuums. But maybe I've just been mistaken all these years. It seems what you're describing is a "feral" pepper. And I don't believe that's what the tepins are. I wish there were more public studies on them that I could find.
 
The very little information that I can find indicated the earliest pepper cultivars showing up in Southern Mexico ~6,000-3,000 BCE, but consumption of chiles (specifically chiltepins) occurring as early as ~7,500 BCE.
 
And there is such a thing as a wild dog, too. But your point is taken on domestic Canid regression to protodog. However, I don't think this is the same. I would equate Chiltepins to Coyotes, or White-Tailed Deer. Both are wild, but both *can* be raised in captivity. However, later release into the wild does not then "contaminate" a species/variety that was wild to begin with.

 

[Chewi]

 
 I believe chiltepins are actually the progenitor for all other annuums. But maybe I've just been mistaken all these years.

 
You have not been mistaken all these years!

 

[danish]

Well now we are delving into uncertainty here. From what I remember however the actual wild progenitor is long extinct, however the tepin is its' closest living relative.
This was the top hit on ddg and seems to back up what I say to some extent.
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1993/v2-132.html
But again who knows.
Lol, way off. Really late here. It says it's the most closely related to the domesticated annuum indicating not only that it's not a domesticated pepper but also probably the progenitor.
That pretty much sinks my explanation. I see no reason to call it "semi" wild.
Peace.

 

[Eephus Man]

Well now we are delving into uncertainty here. From what I remember however the actual wild progenitor is long extinct, however the tepin is its' closest living relative. This was the top hit on ddg and seems to back up what I say to some extent. http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1993/v2-132.html But again who knows.
Lol, way off. Really late here. It says it's the most closely related to the domesticated annuum indicating not only that it's not a domesticated pepper but also probably the progenitor. That pretty much sinks my explanation. I see no reason to call it "semi" wild. Peace.

Lol. You rock danish.
 
I love this place.
 
Anyone in here need some wild-gathered Chiltepin seed?
 
It's 33F here this morning, which is very early for this kind of cold. I don't have ripe fruit on those bushes yet this year. Let's see if they can make it through another week (with possible freezes). Then they'll probably be turning.

 

[Centipede]

I'm a big fan of the Chiltepín. I just went for a long hike around the neighborhood alleys and picked up a few 100 or so. Any other austinites out there collecting them?
 
Semi-wild probably isn't a very scientific term. I can say that Chiltepíns are partially cultivated and consumed by humans and also partially distributed and consumed by mockingbirds and cardinals. Even "wild" plants I have found are close to human habitation. Along old fence lines and hackberrys.
 
The origins of annuum are somewhere in Mexico, so for the plant to migrate to the southwestern USA and Texas it had to be semi-human and semi-bird distribution. 2 of the plants I found were obviously hybridized to some degree. One was about 2x the size of a normal chiltepín and the peppers didn't want to release from plant without breaking the stems. Another one had orange pods that were more pointy than round.
 
I'm saving seed from the best and most isolated plants to grow out mass amounts of Chiltepíns   ...also I haven't experienced any germination problems with wild harvested tepín seeds. All of the stuff I've read about seeds having to pass through a bird to germinate doesn't apply to my experiences.
 
Here's a pretty recent study on the origins of annuum being traced back to 2 possible ares in Mexico:
 
http://www.pnas.org/content/111/17/6165.full.pdf