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Apartment garden war, (mercy, sweet mercy)
- Thread starter southernfried
- Start date
I live in an apartment about 50 miles north of you (in Cullman) and I have 4 black pearls, 3 caribbean reds, 3 cayennes, 2 white habs, 3 devils tongues, and 4 trinidad scorpions all of which are in separate containers in my backyard. My landlord just told me one day "keep them alive and I don't mind, just don't fill up the backyard with a bunch of dead plants in buckets HaHa". but if my landlord would have told me to get rid of them I would probably dump out all the containers in is freaking car. give him the finger and swift kick in the butt LOL, don't really do that but it would be fun. I take my wife to work in birmingham every weekend (she works at St. Vincents) if you want me to come by and kick him for ya I will! Your handling this a thousand times better than I would. Props to you!
LOL! YEAH! He didn't say what size your five containers could be! There is a house down the street from me that has a ton of old truck beds in his backyard and I am sure he would come off of some of them, stick five of those in your back yard!
That's the thing. My backyard is little to no grass growth. If anything, live plants are an upgrade. I don't get it, especially because NO ONE has complained.
I have entertained this idea. But I know it'll just stoke the fire. Gonna exhaust all other options first, and then I will go to the main office, and then I will move it. It is honestly a financial issue with as much as I have invested in it.
Firstly, I think it is very important that you do not let him bully you into this with a simple letter. Make him show you, and it would have to be very specific, where in your lease agreement (ONLY what you read and signed on the date of re-lease) it states what he is claiming to be an infraction. This could quite easily become a small claims case, in my opinion. Be sure he does not use the word clutter, mess, garbage, or anything similar to describe your plants because that would never hold up in court to describe flourishing garden plants, and it is quite likely that one of those terms is used in your lease.
Second, and this only applies if the lawn is the reason (and a legitimate reason from your original lease agreement), he wants you to remove the plants. Make it clear that he needs to fix your dead lawn and as soon as 30 days go by refuse to pay your rent until he does so. Fight fire with fire if he really makes you remove your plants and get a new lawn out of the deal! It may differ in your state from California rental laws, but in CA a tenant can refuse to pay rent until a maintenance issue is taken care of, after the first 30 days.
My 2 cents. Keep us posted about that letter!
-Phil
Second, and this only applies if the lawn is the reason (and a legitimate reason from your original lease agreement), he wants you to remove the plants. Make it clear that he needs to fix your dead lawn and as soon as 30 days go by refuse to pay your rent until he does so. Fight fire with fire if he really makes you remove your plants and get a new lawn out of the deal! It may differ in your state from California rental laws, but in CA a tenant can refuse to pay rent until a maintenance issue is taken care of, after the first 30 days.
My 2 cents. Keep us posted about that letter!
-Phil
Yeah, you are definitely handling this the more adult way... but it would sure tick me off...
I haven't spoken him directly since he awkwardly told me weeks ago that he thought it was excessive. Having spoken to the maintenance guy (the good guy) many times between that time, I told him that if it would help I would tell the property manager I'll gladly give him some fruit. The maintenance guy said he told the property manager when it came up between them the other day that he knew me and that I would gladly give him tomatoes, peppers etc, the property guy said he didn't care about that and just wanted it gone. so that option is gone
That would be a last resort. You can't really put a fair price on the sweat that went into keeping it going, that'll hurt.
Agreed. I'm honestly pissed. Apart from the general "keep the place looking nice," "and no permanent fixtures" there isn't anything about height restrictions, number of plants, etc. If he keeps up with the act I am going over his head to the rental company. From what little my law degree lends me to know in landlord tenant law, notice is a big part of it. Until I get that letter I am not doing crap. Furthermore, I had a garden last summer and no one said a word. I have had the containers out there since April, and he didn't say anything until a few weeks ago.
I am now on a 30 day lease as I don't know when I might be able to move into a house. I am definitely bringing up the fact that I have had a dirt yard for 3 years, and said nothing, and if they can't deal with me covering it up with living green plants for 5-6 months than that is just weird, and pathetic.
If I knew I was moving out soon this wouldn't be an issue, but I might be here til next spring.
It's tough considering how angry I am
ok so he wants no part of the harvest...what a d**k!
thats it final straw you go get yourself an american flag and about 10 more plants that kiddie pool that some1 metioned a lawn chair and a 30 pack fill the kiddie pool with ice and beer and plop down in yer chair and crack a cold one and catch some rays swinging the american flag then just ignore the dude till you get a written 30 day notice to remove them then take that letter to the property owners and explain that he needs replaced by someone that isnt a nazi plant hater.
Best of luck
thats it final straw you go get yourself an american flag and about 10 more plants that kiddie pool that some1 metioned a lawn chair and a 30 pack fill the kiddie pool with ice and beer and plop down in yer chair and crack a cold one and catch some rays swinging the american flag then just ignore the dude till you get a written 30 day notice to remove them then take that letter to the property owners and explain that he needs replaced by someone that isnt a nazi plant hater.
dbag property manager said:
angry chilihead said:
Best of luck
Nazi plant hater?... BWAHAHAHAHAHA! thats hilarious! Well, I got the letter in the mail last Friday. I don't have it handy, but I will summarize it best that I can:
Said he noticed I was using a large portion of the common area for my private use. Then he cited a clause in the rules stating that lessees may not make permanent use of the grounds without written permission from the lessors. After citing this clause, he states that they generally encourage tenants to have a few plants, but that mine was clearly too many. He then told me to have them down to 5 containers by August 5th, or I would be fined and/or the plants removed. - sincerely, property manager
....So, hmmm. I could go into pointing out the issues in the letter, but instead I think my response letter, copy and pasted below does that for me. I have determined the name and location of the guy above him, who is in charge of all the rental company's property. I wrote this letter to him, and am having it delivered this week. I am including with the letter some pictures, including people who tilled their gardens into the ground, have cluttered up their back porches with statues, garden gnomes, dug out bird baths, have large commercial size barrel smokers, the trailer that is stored on the grass (looks like shit), and the coup de grace being the deck that neighbors constructed behind their apartment. How in the hell is he going to accuse me of permanent use, and not equally enforce the rule when it comes to a friggin deck? I asked, they didn't have written permission. And look, I could care less what other people do with their property, but when it is blatantly obvious that he thinks he can pick on me, and rather than actually enforce the rules bend them to what he wants, I'm fighting back. I removed the charcoal smoker I was holding for a friend, so I'm clean there, and the dwarf okra plants are done producing, so those are gone.
Here is the letter. Feedback and suggestions welcome
Mr. [superior guy],
My name is ******* and I live at ****** *** in ******. I am writing concerning my garden that I have in my apartment’s backyard. In late June, Mr. *********** approached me and talked to me about my plants. He told me that he was of the opinion that they were too big. I asked him if anything could be negotiated, and he told me that he would have someone call me. No one ever did, and that was the last time we communicated until I received this letter from him. I have included a copy of the letter in this packet. I am upset and discouraged, and because it appears compromising has broken down I am appealing to you.
When I was signing the lease papers in 2008, I specifically asked the **** *** ***** agent if as a bottom unit I had use of the area immediately behind my apartment. I was told that yes, I could have a grill, a table, etc. I did not plant a garden until last year, the summer of 2010. Not wanting to dig up land I was leasing, and not wanting to make “permanent use” of the grounds, I planted my plants in containers. No one complained. I received nothing from [rental company or agents] saying my garden was in violation of any rules.
Because I planted last summer and received no complaints, I was under the impression I had done everything right. So, I did the same this April and did not hear anything until recently from Mr. *****. I have had no complaints from anyone other than Mr. **** regarding my plants. Rather, I have received numerous compliments. I have made sure with every neighbor that my garden does not interfere with their enjoyment of their property. In fact, they volunteered before any of this that I could move some of my plants to their “backyards” if I needed more space, or wanted to plant more plants. I share what I grow with my neighbors, and am happy to share with anyone.
For whatever reason, the area behind my place is dirt. What little grass does grow is splotchy, and it has been that way all three years. This is another reason I felt that I was doing no harm by putting living green plants on top of unsightly, rocky dirt.
I have spent a considerable amount of time and energy on the plants. I have also invested a significant amount of money. I have spent more money to have the plants in containers, rather than in the ground, so they would not be making “permanent use” of the ground. When the growing season is over, it will be as though they were never there. Honestly, I am confused as to how this is being construed as “permanent use.” I am also confused as I was never told nor did I ever see anything from [rental company] regarding the number or size of plants I may have. I did not till directly into the ground. I have not permanently altered any part of the ground. I have taken special care and spent extra money to ensure that I was within the lease agreement. With the growing season winding down, the number of plants is already shrinking and it will be over within 2-2.5 months. If I limit the number of containers down to 5 now, I will be out at least $500 and will not get any fruit from plants with longer maturities. Given the time frame and money loss, I am hoping I will be able to finish out this season. I am now on notice for next summer, and will limit the number of containers to 5. I have included pictures not because I am complaining about anything in them, but to demonstrate some of the things I discussed.
Thank you for your time,
***** *****
Said he noticed I was using a large portion of the common area for my private use. Then he cited a clause in the rules stating that lessees may not make permanent use of the grounds without written permission from the lessors. After citing this clause, he states that they generally encourage tenants to have a few plants, but that mine was clearly too many. He then told me to have them down to 5 containers by August 5th, or I would be fined and/or the plants removed. - sincerely, property manager
....So, hmmm. I could go into pointing out the issues in the letter, but instead I think my response letter, copy and pasted below does that for me. I have determined the name and location of the guy above him, who is in charge of all the rental company's property. I wrote this letter to him, and am having it delivered this week. I am including with the letter some pictures, including people who tilled their gardens into the ground, have cluttered up their back porches with statues, garden gnomes, dug out bird baths, have large commercial size barrel smokers, the trailer that is stored on the grass (looks like shit), and the coup de grace being the deck that neighbors constructed behind their apartment. How in the hell is he going to accuse me of permanent use, and not equally enforce the rule when it comes to a friggin deck? I asked, they didn't have written permission. And look, I could care less what other people do with their property, but when it is blatantly obvious that he thinks he can pick on me, and rather than actually enforce the rules bend them to what he wants, I'm fighting back. I removed the charcoal smoker I was holding for a friend, so I'm clean there, and the dwarf okra plants are done producing, so those are gone.
Here is the letter. Feedback and suggestions welcome
Mr. [superior guy],
My name is ******* and I live at ****** *** in ******. I am writing concerning my garden that I have in my apartment’s backyard. In late June, Mr. *********** approached me and talked to me about my plants. He told me that he was of the opinion that they were too big. I asked him if anything could be negotiated, and he told me that he would have someone call me. No one ever did, and that was the last time we communicated until I received this letter from him. I have included a copy of the letter in this packet. I am upset and discouraged, and because it appears compromising has broken down I am appealing to you.
When I was signing the lease papers in 2008, I specifically asked the **** *** ***** agent if as a bottom unit I had use of the area immediately behind my apartment. I was told that yes, I could have a grill, a table, etc. I did not plant a garden until last year, the summer of 2010. Not wanting to dig up land I was leasing, and not wanting to make “permanent use” of the grounds, I planted my plants in containers. No one complained. I received nothing from [rental company or agents] saying my garden was in violation of any rules.
Because I planted last summer and received no complaints, I was under the impression I had done everything right. So, I did the same this April and did not hear anything until recently from Mr. *****. I have had no complaints from anyone other than Mr. **** regarding my plants. Rather, I have received numerous compliments. I have made sure with every neighbor that my garden does not interfere with their enjoyment of their property. In fact, they volunteered before any of this that I could move some of my plants to their “backyards” if I needed more space, or wanted to plant more plants. I share what I grow with my neighbors, and am happy to share with anyone.
For whatever reason, the area behind my place is dirt. What little grass does grow is splotchy, and it has been that way all three years. This is another reason I felt that I was doing no harm by putting living green plants on top of unsightly, rocky dirt.
I have spent a considerable amount of time and energy on the plants. I have also invested a significant amount of money. I have spent more money to have the plants in containers, rather than in the ground, so they would not be making “permanent use” of the ground. When the growing season is over, it will be as though they were never there. Honestly, I am confused as to how this is being construed as “permanent use.” I am also confused as I was never told nor did I ever see anything from [rental company] regarding the number or size of plants I may have. I did not till directly into the ground. I have not permanently altered any part of the ground. I have taken special care and spent extra money to ensure that I was within the lease agreement. With the growing season winding down, the number of plants is already shrinking and it will be over within 2-2.5 months. If I limit the number of containers down to 5 now, I will be out at least $500 and will not get any fruit from plants with longer maturities. Given the time frame and money loss, I am hoping I will be able to finish out this season. I am now on notice for next summer, and will limit the number of containers to 5. I have included pictures not because I am complaining about anything in them, but to demonstrate some of the things I discussed.
Thank you for your time,
***** *****
Nice reply. Clear, concise and professional.
Make sure you post updates! The story is like a soap opera. Addicting.
Wishing you the best!
Make sure you post updates! The story is like a soap opera. Addicting.
Wishing you the best!
Nice.. Only the divil would tell you "no move your plants" after reading that letter... of course... the devil is probably a chili head, so even he would probably say it was fine.
first off id like to say im a renter too, and i live in nyc . im going to play devils advocate. people starting hanging bathtowels out of the apt windows to dry in the summer so the apts wouldnt get musty from a wet drying towel. not too classy but ok right? the next summer we had clothes lines strung from the same apt and it looked like a 1930's tenament. than came the non american flags hung out the window. the short recap is if they reign in a potential problem early, they can avoid bigger problems later. maybe they are trying to head off a full fledge problem of u using too much public space for your own use. PS the land lord booted the towel dryer/clothes-line guy out. In the interim I bought the biggest American Flag i could find and hung Old Glory out Da window it partially drapped over his .
"Feedback and suggestions welcome"
please move as many as needed to the nearest neighbor who will let you
so you have the "requested" number of pots
and hopefully you can still easily care for them,
please copy the neighbors in on the letters
best result would be start or make sure six pots {more than five pots} at grow 2
so the one with the small unit needs to send another letter
also set up grow 3 {the next closest cooperative one} a bit further away with a minimum six pots
and so on, and so on, and so on
if he bites and letters all with six pots or more,
organize a community harvest barbeque and plant out the dirt area with
bean sprouts or another cheap fast seed to spell out "******** and the management are unfair to farmers"
and to cook a kettle of tar and pluck chickens
please move as many as needed to the nearest neighbor who will let you
so you have the "requested" number of pots
and hopefully you can still easily care for them,
please copy the neighbors in on the letters
best result would be start or make sure six pots {more than five pots} at grow 2
so the one with the small unit needs to send another letter
also set up grow 3 {the next closest cooperative one} a bit further away with a minimum six pots
and so on, and so on, and so on
if he bites and letters all with six pots or more,
organize a community harvest barbeque and plant out the dirt area with
bean sprouts or another cheap fast seed to spell out "******** and the management are unfair to farmers"
and to cook a kettle of tar and pluck chickens
Isn't a vegetable garden temporary? Not to mention portable, being that all the plants are in containers. I think your attorney would have a field day with their claim of "permanent use." They better have specific definitions for every term in that clause to force this on you.
This will likely come to specifics, generally apartment management goes by the book. Unless you convince them that you are not violating your lease agreement, I think they will bully you into what they want.
If you wanted to post the clause word for word you could get some legal advice which you may need seeing as they have mentioned fines and removal of your property.
-Phil
This will likely come to specifics, generally apartment management goes by the book. Unless you convince them that you are not violating your lease agreement, I think they will bully you into what they want.
If you wanted to post the clause word for word you could get some legal advice which you may need seeing as they have mentioned fines and removal of your property.
-Phil
I will post it within the hour, as soon as I leave this internship.
It has occurred to me that word permanent was second hand from another person, and that the prop manager had said, and not used in the letter. I guess I ran with it because of the phrase "reserved for private use." Therefore, I am going to have to rewrite this damn letter tonight. Here is the clause:
"No part of the yards, grounds, halls, or walks or stairs shall be reserved for the private use of any tenant and no objects of any nature shall be stored, placed, or situated on any of these areas without the written consent of the Lessor..."
Yet he goes on to explain that they typically have allowed residents to have "a few plants" at the back door for their own use. What? He started this job less than a year ago. And if you could see the pictures I am including of other tenants who have tilled in the ground, turned their backyards into patios, stored a trailer, and even built a friggin deck, i am wondering if this is some sort of itch he has against me personally.
What I don't get, is that if no parts can be reserved for private use, does that mean that my buddies and I can go to someone else's backyard area, use their grill and sit on their tables and when they came out to tell me to stop I could say "wo wo buddy, this isn't private." (almost every single apartment has a table and or chairs, and more than half have grills, and they told us we could do so.) I have asked around, NO one has a letter from the lessor, even the deck people. I don't get it.
"No part of the yards, grounds, halls, or walks or stairs shall be reserved for the private use of any tenant and no objects of any nature shall be stored, placed, or situated on any of these areas without the written consent of the Lessor..."
Yet he goes on to explain that they typically have allowed residents to have "a few plants" at the back door for their own use. What? He started this job less than a year ago. And if you could see the pictures I am including of other tenants who have tilled in the ground, turned their backyards into patios, stored a trailer, and even built a friggin deck, i am wondering if this is some sort of itch he has against me personally.
What I don't get, is that if no parts can be reserved for private use, does that mean that my buddies and I can go to someone else's backyard area, use their grill and sit on their tables and when they came out to tell me to stop I could say "wo wo buddy, this isn't private." (almost every single apartment has a table and or chairs, and more than half have grills, and they told us we could do so.) I have asked around, NO one has a letter from the lessor, even the deck people. I don't get it.