container back to basics, BER on indoor container plants

[Doelman]

I'm getting a little frustrated with this whole indoor growing thing.  On my outdoor plants I only water them when the plants start wilting a little, I water them deep, I've been doing the same to my container peppers inside.  That's been fine but now suddenly all the peppers on my bell pepper plant have developed what looks like blossom end rot and 9/10 when I see this it's because of over watering.
 
So should you not wait until the plants start wilting to water and should you not completely saturate at each watering in containers?  I feel like I'm just starting to grow peppers all over again.  Plants are in 3 gallon plastic pots with MG potting soil.
 
 

 

[AndyW]

I'm definitely no expert, but isn't MG known for really holding onto water or just being a heavy mix? And I may be alone in this, but I prefer to do more frequent light waterings vs occasionally saturating. I don't really have a reason for it but it's easier to me and seems to work well.

 

[solid7]

I'm getting a little frustrated with this whole indoor growing thing.  On my outdoor plants I only water them when the plants start wilting a little, I water them deep, I've been doing the same to my container peppers inside.  That's been fine but now suddenly all the peppers on my bell pepper plant have developed what looks like blossom end rot and 9/10 when I see this it's because of over watering.
 
So should you not wait until the plants start wilting to water and should you not completely saturate at each watering in containers?  I feel like I'm just starting to grow peppers all over again.  Plants are in 3 gallon plastic pots with MG potting soil.
 
 

 
 
Waiting until plants wilt is not really the way to go, when growing.  Ideally, you want to maintain turgor, at all costs.  However, if you're having problems getting your watering adjusted, then it's probably what you need to do, for the time being.
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You are absolutely correct that overwatering can lead to BER.
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Ideal waterings are not saturation waterings.  You have your plants indoors, so you are clearly under controlled conditions.  The watering schedule will change, as the plant growth progresses.  For now, you just need to do nothing.  I mean literally, do NOTHING with these plants.  Keep a good fan on them, and if you can, get another fan, to alleviate the water situation.
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When you get this back on track, start watering SLOWLY with the first sign of wilt.  If the plant take the water, and then wilts the same day, resist the urge to water again.  Just know how much you've watered, and add a little more the next day.  Do this, until the plant no longer wilts in the same day. 
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Your worst enemy with container gardening, will be the urge to be reactive.  Patience is all you need.

 

[juanitos]

read this document.
https://pepperdatabase.org/pdf/BER.pdf

it is more common in early fruit while the plant is growing rapidly still.

 

[solid7]

read this document.
https://pepperdatabase.org/pdf/BER.pdf

it is more common in early fruit while the plant is growing rapidly still.

 
Good resource.  As a corollary, it also takes a strong position against foliar spraying of things like Epsom Salt. (basically suggesting that it's 100% ineffective)

 

[ShowMeDaSauce]

Ive ran into that too. Some early pods will get a little end rot. I had a Bell of Gollu do it this year with the first pod. I had several Korean peppers and Anaheims do it last year. Ive heard bell types are a bit more prone to it.

 

[Chewi]

read this document.
https://pepperdatabase.org/pdf/BER.pdf

it is more common in early fruit while the plant is growing rapidly still.

 
Damn I wonder if that's why it is so frequent in my indeterminate tomatoes. Hell maybe I should top it once a get a bunch of fruit.
 

 
Good resource.  As a corollary, it also takes a strong position against foliar spraying of things like Epsom Salt. (basically suggesting that it's 100% ineffective)

 
Never been a big fan of foliar anything. Basically asking some nastiness to grow. Still, seeing all the fruit get ruined makes a guy want to try everything....

 

[jedisushi06]

less water more calcium and move them outside.

 

[Doelman]

less water more calcium and move them outside.

I think you're right, time to just put them outside.  I guess I'll stop letting them wilt before watering as well.  

 

[jedisushi06]

I think you're right, time to just put them outside.  I guess I'll stop letting them wilt before watering as well.  

That’s your problem right there


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[lespaulde]

 
Good resource.  As a corollary, it also takes a strong position against foliar spraying of things like Epsom Salt. (basically suggesting that it's 100% ineffective)

The way I interpret it is that it's ineffective against BER as the calcium doesn't mobilise through the plant, but for getting e.g the Mg to the leafs, it should still be of use no?

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[Dane]

While doing research for IPM practices I came across a paper about blossom end rot written by I think a German researcher. In it he suggested that blossom end rot was the result of an inbalance of abscisic acid. wich can be caused by excessive or inconsistent watering.
 And that spray treatment of the hormone was the solution in his trials.
I'm omw to work rn, but I'll dig it out this afternoon. Good read at the very least.

 

[solid7]

The way I interpret it is that it's ineffective against BER as the calcium doesn't mobilise through the plant, but for getting e.g the Mg to the leafs, it should still be of use no?

 
Well, it doesn't specifically address Mg...  But Mg is one of the most mobile nutrients.  It's right up there with N.  Knowing that is the case, why foliar spray, at an application rate that is many times higher than if one were to just use a soil drench?  My point being, it works fast, and it goes to work right away, so foliar spraying - which is the least effective way to deliver nutrients - seems a bit wasteful. 
 
I don't like to spray leaves of plants, if I don't have to, because in my high humidity climate, it can cause problems with fungal growth. (tomatoes are the absolute worst for that)
 
And also, are Mg deficiencies really that common?

 

[Dane]

Here is that info about blossom end rot and abscisic acid. You may not be able to get the whole section but just reading the abstract you will get the gist.

 

[solid7]

Here is that info about blossom end rot and abscisic acid. You may not be able to get the whole section but just reading the abstract you will get the gist.

 
Wow, interesting.  It's almost like that's contrary to everything that we've ever been taught...  It's almost like somebody is making money off of all of the mined resources that we pump into/onto our plants.
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Undoubtedly, there are a lot of people who will be dismissive of this, because "we've always done it that way".  But as correlation does not imply causation, it is interesting to note that several studies have indicated that the BER is often just a "phase" that the plant is going through, and would snap out of it, with or without the addition of calcium.  But the addition of calcium coincides with the end of the BER (which would have happened, anyway), thus leading to the (false) conclusion that it's been cured by addition of said product.
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I have noticed that several studies on foliar feeding, are based off of research that was done in the early 50's, by a guy named Tukey, I believe.  Basically, in his research, he sprayed plants with radioactive water, and observed the uptake.  His research found that plants do, indeed, take in nutrients through every part, and the above ground parts take up nutrients at the rate of about .3 m/h.  HOWEVER...  this was also an early foray into the subject.  Later scholarly efforts (such as the one referenced by juanitos) conclude that not ALL nutrients are able to be absorbed by the plant through foliage.  And yet again, there are many places that continue, as an accepted agricultural practice, to foliar spray the lesser mobile (and allegedly non-absorptive) nutrients by foliar.  So, it is quite the academic shitshow.
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It would be interesting to know if calcium is foliar applied in ignorance, or based on some other (yet again) legitimate evidence.  Certainly, there is a legitimate use for foliar spraying.  Particularly, in certain types of agriculture, fertigation is carried out at the upper end of practical levels - even to the point that lockout levels in soil are achieved.  To bypass this, foliar spraying is an option.  But it is wasteful, since application rates are higher, due to the inherent inefficiency.
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Anyway, thanks for posting that.  Knowledge is power.