Basic new garden questions

[crazy8]

So I have learned a bit over the last couple years about gardening. As my fiance and I look for our first home I am wondering a few things as her and I will also have OUR own first garden. Up till now I have been blessed with using my dads yard to my growing content and her mom and I have also utilized their yard with a sizable garden. Now I know how to put a shovel in the ground and use a tiller but I have some questions. I am hoping you pros will be able to help with getting a freshly made garden on a great start. Now the garden wont be JUST peppers as much as I joke with the future Mrs. that it will be . So here are my questions.

1) What steps should be taken first to ensure a productive garden?
2) If sod needs to be removed to create the garden, should it actually be removed or (as I have seen) flipped upside down for the grass to die and later tilled into the soil?
3) Should any kind of amenities be added into the soil when starting a newly created garden?
4) Since the garden will be used for many kinds of vegetables, what is a general idea of the best kind of soil/consistency that works best? I know Ph should be between about 6 and 7.5
5) Other than the knowledge I have gained thus far are there any tips any of you may have for people who are getting started with their own gardens?
6) For those of you who have a few years (or many more), is there anything you have done in your garden(s) that has just made things so much easier and/or nicer for you? My dad did last year and this year. He has a "grid" for the cucumbers so instead of growing across the ground they grow up the side of the shed and this way he doesn't have to break his back picking them and it only requires the space of the length of the shed by about 8" wide and that's it.

Thank you all again for all the help.

 

[wordwiz]

So I have learned a bit over the last couple years about gardening. As my fiance and I look for our first home I am wondering a few things as her and I will also have OUR own first garden. Up till now I have been blessed with using my dads yard to my growing content and her mom and I have also utilized their yard with a sizable garden. Now I know how to put a shovel in the ground and use a tiller but I have some questions. I am hoping you pros will be able to help with getting a freshly made garden on a great start. Now the garden wont be JUST peppers as much as I joke with the future Mrs. that it will be . So here are my questions.

1) What steps should be taken first to ensure a productive garden?

First and foremost - get a soil analysis. This is like looking at a map if you want to drive to a place you have never been before. The test will tell you what you need to add to the soil. And if you can afford it, pay for a full test, one that checks for trace elements.

2) If sod needs to be removed to create the garden, should it actually be removed or (as I have seen) flipped upside down for the grass to die and later tilled into the soil?

If you can till the soil five-six weeks, or even four weeks before planting, I would till the grass, let it rain and dry and till it again. Do this 3-4 times. That sod, with its roots and grass will be like adding a cup of fertilizer per square foot.

3) Should any kind of amenities be added into the soil when starting a newly created garden?

See the reply to your first question!

4) Since the garden will be used for many kinds of vegetables, what is a general idea of the best kind of soil/consistency that works best? I know Ph should be between about 6 and 7.5

I aim for 6.5. Not ideal for all veggies but not harmful to any that I know of. Again, a soil test will tell you what the pH is and what you need to do to get it into the best range.

6) For those of you who have a few years (or many more), is there anything you have done in your garden(s) that has just made things so much easier and/or nicer for you? My dad did last year and this year. He has a "grid" for the cucumbers so instead of growing across the ground they grow up the side of the shed and this way he doesn't have to break his back picking them and it only requires the space of the length of the shed by about 8" wide and that's it.

I really like the Florida Weave for toms. Keeps the plants upright, is inexpensive and easy to do.

Thank you all again for all the help.

HTH,

Mike

 

[The Medicinal Pepper]

1) What steps should be taken first to ensure a productive garden?

I agree with wordwiz regarding the soil test as a starting point. You need to pay attention to the pH and CEC (cation exchange capacity) wherein you should hope for pH near neutral (6-7) and a CEC greater than 90. Neutral pH is good for all peppers that are generally grown. The CEC is a measure of the soils ability to hold various positively charged ions (Calcium, Magnesium, ammonium, potassium) and as such acts like a nutrient reserve. The CEC comprises both fixed and pH dependent. Fixed CEC comes from the clay and pH dependent comes from organic matter. The pH dependent CEC will need to have pH's neutral or slightly above else it will affect nutrient availability.

2) If sod needs to be removed to create the garden, should it actually be removed or (as I have seen) flipped upside down for the grass to die and later tilled into the soil?

I have done this both ways but prefer to remove the sod completely because the grass tends to be tenacious and I end up pulling grass all summer. If you do remove the sod I recommend removing as much of the soil from the sod that you can, tedious I know but worth it in the long run.

3) Should any kind of amenities be added into the soil when starting a newly created garden?

Kind of depends on your soil test, but I would add some compost (will boost your pH dependent CEC and provide nutrients to the microbes and plants. In addition I would lime with Calcitic (rather than Dolomitic, but this is ok too) lime in finely ground form having a calcium carbonate equivalent of at least 90%. Now some may say this will set your soil pH too high but it is unlikely to raise it beyond 7 unless you go crazy. I just spread a dusting over the surface prior to tilling then work it in. Remember that plants need Ca in large quantities and Ca is relatively immobile in the soil and in the plant so it needs to be near the roots.

4) Since the garden will be used for many kinds of vegetables, what is a general idea of the best kind of soil/consistency that works best? I know Ph should be between about 6 and 7.5

Well drained soil with a decent amount of organic matter. I added about 3-4" of compost to my plots this year. See above for pH recommendation.

5) Other than the knowledge I have gained thus far are there any tips any of you may have for people who are getting started with their own gardens?

See above. I realize it will be a work in progress, won't happen overnight and takes some practice.

6) For those of you who have a few years (or many more), is there anything you have done in your garden(s) that has just made things so much easier and/or nicer for you? My dad did last year and this year. He has a "grid" for the cucumbers so instead of growing across the ground they grow up the side of the shed and this way he doesn't have to break his back picking them and it only requires the space of the length of the shed by about 8" wide and that's it.

I hate to weed and don't like to use (or as little as possible) herbicides like glyphosate, so my wife and I get mulch in bulk. We lay down newspaper first followed by about 3-4" of mulch. This usually prevents 90% of the weeds and those that do get through are very easy to pull.

 

[jjs7741]

Great recommendations above, but I would like to add that you should get the soil ready in the fall for the spring planting. Let it rest over the winter. This will give the lime time to work as well as give time for the worms and beneficial bacteria to get going as well. This will be extra important with store bought amendments that may need to be broken down some more like soil conditioners (pine bark fines) or partially composted compost that is sold in bags and still has big chunks in it. This will help the plants get a good start. Last year, I moved into a new house and couldn't prepare the ground ahead of time for a couple tomato plants and green beans. The plants just looked pitiful until late July when they finally started to come around and grow. This year, the plants in the same plot look amazing with minimal compost added this time.

Good luck!
jacob

 

[wordwiz]

Jacob,

I till mine in the fall but then sow winter wheat or rye grass as a cover crop. In mid-spring, the foliage goes into the compost bin and the roots tilled into the ground. It provides a good amount of organic material.

Mike

 

[jjs7741]

Mike,

I haven't used cover crops, but I do add shredded leaves and grass clippings and turn it over in the fall to add organic matter to the soil. I has improved my VERY poor and VERY acidic soil (Ph of about 5 or so) very much over at the in law's house where most of my garden is. My problem has been with new plots the first time I dug it up and tried to grow there. I think the part that makes it so bad is when they build the subdivisions, they dig up all the top soil, heavily compact the sub-soil that is left behind, then throw sod on top of that. Not exactly fertile growing ground. I will be adding more beds this fall and let them rest over the winter to get the ph time to come up and be ready to go in the spring. Might try the winter rye as a cover crop though. I need to add a whole lot of organic material as there is almost none there now.

jacob

 

[wordwiz]

Jacob,

I learned about winter cover crops from my dad, who probably learned it from his dad, who learned it from his, etc! It was a major deal - one year we had 17 acres of tobacco and another 1.5 acres of garden. I had to sow the wheat and then disk the ground, not just a few hours of work. It wasn't cheap either, but dad would not have done it if it wasn't economically beneficial! Besides preventing erosion, it returned a lot of N-P-K to the soil and really help prevent weed emergence in spring.

A couple of years, I can remember when we used a log chain in front of the plows to knock the wheat down so it could be covered with dirt. That was because of wet but warm springs when plowing was delayed. The wheat can grow real fast!

Last fall, I planted rye grass because wheat wasn't handy and the guy said it was better. Well, it adds a bit more nuits but... it is a tad more expensive, doesn't provide as much foliage and... the really bad part - it seems to contribute to weeds. Usually, after a few years of gardening, my area has a few but not overwhelming weeds. It has been extremely wet since transplanting, but I've seen golf courses that didn't have as thick of grass as what I have in my garden. It wasn't suppose to rain until at least this evening so I had great plans to till it this afternoon. I would have yesterday but there were still areas that were damp and with a noticeable amount of clay in the ground, I wanted it to be as dry as possible. A bright, sunny day with temps in the low 90s would have been enough to dry it enough.

Instead, I start hearing rain about 6:30 this morning. Lots of rain - more than 1.5" Now it is going to be another 2-3 days before I can kill those weeds. It's too wet to even add another row of rope to my Florida Weave!

Mike

 

[crazy8]

I think I like the idea of adding grass clippings, leaves, and lime for a winter covering and 2 of the three I can are quite accessible in the yard. So one thing I was also wondering in regards to mulch. I was thinking of also using grass clippings for mulch but if I did and then just tilled it in at the end of the season and adding it as a winter covering is that to much grass or no? The second thing I have been thinking about is actually starting my worm farm. Two things I have thought about doing when I get more worms from them "multiplying" is putting them into an outdoor compost pile and adding them into the garden. Is either of or both of these OK to do with the extra red worms?

 

[orangehero]

Don't see any problems about the worms.

In my opinion, the best course to take would be to create raised beds out of cedar or perhaps cinderblocks (maybe pine, but it will rot after a few years). All you have to do is prepare the frames (they don't have to be too tall), lay some newspaper on the bottom over the sod and get a truckload of compost/top soil to fill the beds in (about $20 a cubic yard around here). Then I'd mulch in between the beds with bark. This way you instantly have perfect garden beds and minimal weed problems for their lifespan. It would also not be difficult to get a drip irrigation system set up as well.

I also mulch heavily with straw which helps with moisture retention and weed prevention.

That's how I would do it.

 

[POTAWIE]

I think I like the idea of adding grass clippings, leaves, and lime for a winter covering and 2 of the three I can are quite accessible in the yard. So one thing I was also wondering in regards to mulch. I was thinking of also using grass clippings for mulch but if I did and then just tilled it in at the end of the season and adding it as a winter covering is that to much grass or no? The second thing I have been thinking about is actually starting my worm farm. Two things I have thought about doing when I get more worms from them "multiplying" is putting them into an outdoor compost pile and adding them into the garden. Is either of or both of these OK to do with the extra red worms?

I don't think compost worms(red wigglers) will stay in you garden very long or be very effective there. I believe they need a continual supply of fresh compost unlike eathworms which don't compost very much but they do a lot of underground travelling which aerates and loosens the soil

 

[crazy8]

Don't see any problems about the worms.

In my opinion, the best course to take would be to create raised beds out of cedar or perhaps cinderblocks (maybe pine, but it will rot after a few years). All you have to do is prepare the frames (they don't have to be too tall), lay some newspaper on the bottom over the sod and get a truckload of compost/top soil to fill the beds in (about $20 a cubic yard around here). Then I'd mulch in between the beds with bark. This way you instantly have perfect garden beds and minimal weed problems for their lifespan. It would also not be difficult to get a drip irrigation system set up as well.

I also mulch heavily with straw which helps with moisture retention and weed prevention.

That's how I would do it.

That is a good idea and anything that brings the garden closer to you to work and not break your back im all for

I don't think compost worms(red wigglers) will stay in you garden very long or be very effective there. I believe they need a continual supply of fresh compost unlike eathworms which don't compost very much but they do a lot of underground travelling which aerates and loosens the soil

So then throwing them in an outdoor compost pile would actually be ok and even beneficial.

 

[POTAWIE]

Ya, put them in your compost pile or continue using them in a worm bin, but not in the garden

 

[crazy8]

I just had another question pop in my head. I have not found an answer yet for this but I do know when making raised beds you should not use treated woods. Is it ok to use that new plastic type stuff that's made from like sawdust and recycled plastic bottles? You guys know what I am talking about? Most of the big chain lumber companies sell it under many brands and its getting used more and more every day. The main reason I ask is when the fiance and I finally get our new house I may re/build the deck out of it and im thinking as much as I love cedar, it would also be nice to have raised beds that match the deck Any thoughts?

 

[RS67Man]

If I had the means, I would be making my raised beds from recycled plastic lumber. The outdoor stuff for decks is perfect, weather resistant and everything. The cost is about 3-4X of dimentiional lumber, but will last 10+ times longer. I have also thought of using 1/2" ABS sheet with plastic lumber for corners, rails, and staking.

 

[crazy8]

Yeah I didnt really think there would be any harm in using that stuff but wanted to make sure. Especially at the prices the last thing I would want is to spend all that money to find out that it hs some harmful chemicals and should not be used for growing food.