Blisters LED Coco grow has reached it's inevitable end...

I've been away from the forum for some quite some time. Over the last 2.5 years I've been blessed with a son, have had to move to 2 different cities and transfer jobs twice. I really didn't have time or room to grow anything let alone focus on peppers. Now that I'm settled in and have a few extra $ on hand, I've been able to invest in a 180w UV Blackstar LED and have started growing in Coco.

Why coco? I've grown in soil before and had decent results. The problem was that my growing season is around 90 days. We don't get the heat or sun needed to grow super hots to their full potential. On top of this soil needs fairly large pots for the plants to really produce a large plant, but again we don't get the heat needed to let the pot dry out and stress the plant. I'd have great tasting peppers, but no heat.

I've done a bunch of reading (mostly the 420 sites) and it would appear that coco offers the ability to grow large plants in rather small pots. It offers a great root zone alternative that will allow you to develop massive roots. Once the root ball is fully developed, they fill the pot to the point that you can water every day (during growth), and every other day during fruiting. The ability to control the water/wilt schedule should allow the plant to stress out enough so that it produces nice hot peppers. We'll see how this works though.

Fertilizers I'm currently using are:

Botannicare 
- CNS-17 Grow (stand alone)
- CNS-17 Bloom (stand alone)

General hydroponics (using a modified version of H3AD's mixture)

- Flora Micro
- Flora Bloom


Advanced Nutrients 
- Monkey Juice A
- Monkey Juice B

Suppliments

- Botannicare Cal-Mag+
- Botannicare Huvega (nothing more than expensive dissolved epsom salt)

Problems experienced so far:

I had a bunch of issues getting the seeds started. They'd start, die. Next set wouldn't start. Set after that started and provided me with enough seedlings to get going. 

Next problem. I started with Botannicare's CNS-17 grow. Everything started fine, seedlings were doing ok, but it wasn't too long in before I realized that I had a huge problem with my tap water. It's extremely hard. After a few weeks the leaves were going yellow and dropping. Especially when I added a small amount of Cal-Mag+. The problem drove me a little nuts and is why I have a 3 different ferts! I didn't know the water was the problem and tried a different brand. Oh well. I bought a TDS Meter and found that my tap water is a little over 500ppm. After I found this out, I switched to bottled water and noticed an immediate improvement.

 I'm only growing two types of peppers so far:
- Yellow Scotch Bonnet (bought from Stokes)
- Bhut Jolokia (two strains. One from a friend and one that was bought off e-bay by my in-laws).

EDIT:

Newly added pepper! Jamison was kind enough to provide me with MoA Bonnets! They arrived today (Dec 31, 2013).

 

[Blister]

Just put two Red Trinidad Scorpions into coco. Had to pull two of the smallest yellow scorpions to make room. I'm going to have to pull a bunch more if I can get my RE-Bhut going. Got 15 seeds in wet paper towel and am waiting for the first sprouts...




Neil

 

[Sm1nts2escape]

Since it's getting a bit late for me to be starting extra super hots, I'm upping my light schedule to 20/4. I may up it to 24 hours should I get the Bhut's to sprout. It's looking like the cracked seeds are once again well ahead of the others. Time will tell on them I guess.

Neil

 
I've tried 24 light schedules and by the third day they really appreciate 6 hours of darkness and bust out with a ton of new growth over night/the next day.

 

[Blister]

I've tried 24 light schedules and by the third day they really appreciate 6 hours of darkness and bust out with a ton of new growth over night/the next day.

I really wish I could find the article about photoperiod and chili plants. From what I can recall off the top of my head chili plants benefit from having 24 hour light for the first 5-7 weeks, but after that the light times needed to be adjusted to around 16/8 otherwise leaf chlorosis occurred.

I've had good results with the standard fluorescent lights and running 24h in the past. Perhaps it depends on the light source?

Neil

 

[Nick08*]

I was under the impression that the seedlings liked 24hr light, but the larger plants definitely like/need some dark period. Correct me if I'm wrong though... becuase currently my seedlings are getting 24 hrs!
 
I know this was posted in a couple spots before, but did you ever see the time-lapse Shane did on his plants?

 

[Blister]

I was under the impression that the seedlings liked 24hr light, but the larger plants definitely like/need some dark period. Correct me if I'm wrong though... becuase currently my seedlings are getting 24 hrs!
 
I know this was posted in a couple spots before, but did you ever see the time-lapse Shane did on his plants?

Yes I have seen the time-lapse Shane did. It's pretty cool.

You are correct from what I could remember of the articles I've read. Seedlings do well with long light times, but as the plants mature they require a dark time.

On a different note, I finally bit the bullet and culled the rest of the chili plants that weren't growing true. I had one pod that ripened to red and decided to taste it. Very hab like. Back to the clean state I started with. Two Red Scorpions, One J-MoA, and the rest are yellow scorpions except for the regular house plant I put into coco some time ago.



Neil

 

[JJJessee]

Sometimes the quickest way to our goal is back through the starting point.
And you have the added benefit of knowing exactly where you are.
 
Fresh Start -Looks good.
 
Now a review question, O ppm Master.
Correct me where I'm wrong along the way.
 
The 6/9ml  A/B GH Duo per gallon of H3AD formula yields a 700 ppm solution.
 
Since I started, I've been cutting that formula with 100% water by 50% yielding a 350 ppm solution.
 
I noted on review that you are using a 500 ppm because the 700ppm was producing signs of too much nutrient, or did I miss something?
 
Should I be using the 500 ppm?  No science to back me up, but my plants seem to have slowed a little on the 350ppm diet.
It stands to reason that as the plant grows it may require a higher ppm.
 
Have you been tinkering with the ppm lately?
 
Have a good weekend.

 

[Jamison]

Still kicking ass over here! Good luck on the new starts Neil!

 

[Devv]

Neil, I have no idea what you're doing with the hydro and all the nute formulas. But what I see is fantastic.
 
Good luck on the new starts, and may they be true!

 

[Blister]

Thanks for stopping in and the words of support guys. I should still have time to get a RE-Bhut going, but only mother nature knows for sure. Fingers crossed on my end though.

JJJ,

You are correct. H3ads formula is designed to produce 700ppm with RO or low ppm water. I was originally using it "as is" until I noticed that the leaves were crumpled up. They were dark green, but really puckered. I then cut my nute strength to 500 ppm and had decent results. The leaves flattened out a bit and new growth was completely flat and the way it should be.

Although H3ad runs 700ppm through veg and flower for his 420 grow, I found that my chili plants couldn't take it. I had to lower it a bit at first (to 500ppm), then when they matured I had to up the strength to 700ppm. Before I culled the plants I had briefly upped the solution to 900ppm when I was heavy into flower and had pods growing. I did it because I had a lot of flower drop. New leaves remained flat.

You're correct in that add a plant grows it needs higher strength nutes. It wouldn't hurt to up your nute strength, but keep an eye on your leaves. Dark brown to black tips is an indication of note burn. Crumpled leaves, well to me if they crumple, you're too high. They'll still grow and produce, but I'm after flat leaves like you would see in nature. I'm still playing it by ear at this point, so good luck dialling it in.

Neil

 

[JJJessee]

Thanks a bushel, Neil. 
I forgot to mention, once per week I am doing a plain water "flush" to prevent build up of salts.
Since I've only been at 350ppm, I'll start to bump them up a bit.

 

[Blister]

No problem JJJ. From what I've read, there's not really much need to flush as long as you you make sure that you water until you see the pot draining from the bottom every time. The new water and ferts that run off carry the old salts out with them.

I have no experience to say how it works at this point though. I'd imagine that the cash crop folks have it figured out though but we'll see when I get there.

Neil

 

[Sm1nts2escape]

It wouldn't hurt to up your nute strength, but keep an eye on your leaves. Dark brown to black tips is an indication of note burn. Crumpled leaves, well to me if they crumple, you're too high. They'll still grow and produce, but I'm after flat leaves like you would see in nature. I'm still playing it by ear at this point, so good luck dialling it in.

Neil

 
 
Crumpled leaves like these?

 

[Blister]

Crumpled leaves like these?

Kind of, but not really. Your lower leaves look really nice and flat. Unfortunately the pictures of my plants don't really show the crumpled leaves and I can't seem to find other pictures I've seen online. The ones I've seen were really crumpled and twisted. They almost looked like bug damage, but they were still really green. I'll have to keep looking.

I'd also like to say that I've got my RE-Bhut well under way!



Two seedlings were put in coco a few days ago, and one was just put in last night. I've got a few more just starting to germinate. Just hope I can get them through the season and into production. I loves me some Jolokia wings!

Neil

 

[Blister]

Another update on the plants. In the front the 2nd, 3rd and 4th plants are the jolokias I was able to sprout and get going for my RE-Bhut. Once again these were kindly provided by JJJ. Other than the plant in the top left of the picture, all are Trinidad Scorpions. The majority are yellow with two Red's. The plant in the top left is the single MoA that I had start. There's something wrong with it. It's hardly growing at all. It's got two of the tiniest true leaves poking out. I've got the rest of the J-MoA seed in paper towel right now with the hopes that they germinate soon.



I have been giving the seedlings a weak solution of CNS17 of around 100-150ppm. I've upped the nutes to 500ppm for all the others. I've been using CNS17 Grow because I have it dialled in for seedlings and haven't seen a burnt leaf tip. I was thinking about running another CNS/GH side by side comparison with the plants to see which one does better. Just haven't started it yet.

Neil

 

[Devv]

I had 8 MoA's pop, and they grow really well, don't give up on it yet, it may trun out to be the bad ass one!

 

[Blister]

I had 8 MoA's pop, and they grow really well, don't give up on it yet, it may trun out to be the bad ass one!

I'm still holding out! The cotyledons look pretty sad, but there's still the tiniest of true leaves starting. I don't know if it's really stunted or if it's just not a viable seedling. I'm going to hold on to it for the time being. Everything else is growing away. They're not as dark green as my last batch and I'm not sure why. I've mixed up some General Hydro Flora nutes and have given it to two test plants. We'll see how it works in the next week or so.

On a side note though, the house plant I had put into coco seems to love the CNS17 mixture. Dark green and starting to flower. Roots poking out the bottom and all. I wasn't sure it was going to make it. Removed it from soil, pulled the dead leaves and poured the lights to it. Now it's trying to grow out of the little water heater cover tent I made for the plants.

Neil

 

[Devv]

How soon after the seeds sprout do you hit them with nutes? The coco has none correct? So I guess right away?

 

[JJJessee]

Blister, those Bhuts are just tiny by nature, at first. I think they'll come around.
Scott, I give my cocos a very light nutes even before true leaves and they've done fine.

 

[Blister]

How soon after the seeds sprout do you hit them with nutes? The coco has none correct? So I guess right away?

 
I wait until the seedlings sprout and nearly push the case off while still in paper towel. I then put the seedlings in coco and give them plain water to get them to set. I put them back under the dome for a day or so to keep them warm and reduce the shock while they start to stand up. After the second or third day I've been giving them some nutes around 100-150ppm for the first week. By the second week I bump them up to around 300ppm. After that they get full strength nutes of around 500ppm. 
 
Of course I have to read the plants though. If I noticed brown tips I back the nutrients off to avoid burning them. All is going well so far.
 

Blister, those Bhuts are just tiny by nature, at first. I think they'll come around.
Scott, I give my cocos a very light nutes even before true leaves and they've done fine.

 
That's great to hear JJJ. I've heard that the Bhuts are prolific when they start to produce. I'm really looking forward to that! I love Bhut's for making me some hotwings! It has such a nice smokey flavor.
 
Neil

 

[Blister]

And with 2 more jolokia's sprouted and in coco, my total rises to 5. I have one more to put into coco. I've had fantastic germination rates with these seeds JJJ. There's only a few that didn't fire, but that had more to do with them being all but crushed.

I also have a few J-MoA's that have tap roots shooting out. Going to give them a bit more time before they go into coco. All the Yellow Scorpions are doing good as too. It's looking good so far

Neil