BSF vs Farm Compost

DWB

DWB

I have a large supply of captive BSF larvae that have been going and growing for 2½ months. They live in 15 gallon buckets of compost "tea". They're eating well and have to be multiplying constantly but I'm not exactly sure how that works.
 
I'm also making dry compost from the organic materials I have readily available to me from around the place. This newest pile is alternating layers of finely chopped grass clippings and horse manure. I started this one in August and it's well seeded with 33-0-0 nitrogen.
 
After watching how quickly the BSF larvae tear down everything offered to them, I'm wondering about seeding a compost pile such as this with a small bucket of them. Would they thrive and multiply like they do in the "tea" or would they simply die out or move away? Would I have to keep the pile really wet to keep them at home and eating?
 
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BSF larvae are very inefficient composters. This makes them great for things like food waste that would pile up really quickly but personally looking at that compost pile I would be introducing worms instead of BSF larvae and I would be putting the finished BSF larvae compost onto that pile also
 
Walchit said:
This bsf is the new fad for 2019 or what? I'd never heard of it till the other day
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First I knew about this happened in July when I started throwing all my bad peppers and tomatoes into a bucket with other stuff. I thought I may try to make some compost tea. A few days later, all these creatures began climbing the side of the bucket. I didn't look very closely at the bugs themselves or the picture I took and called them slugs or grubs or something. I think it was CaneDog and Paul who told me what they were.
 
 
Read the wiki write up on BSF. They have a BSF vs redworm paragraph about how they differ in composting.
 
For some bazaar reason it wont left me copy and paste the paragraph here.
 
 
 
 
Walchit said:
This bsf is the new fad for 2019 or what? I'd never heard of it till the other day
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It's not a fad.  In a bin, they'll outperform just about everything.
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I think they've been slow to catch on, because of their frightful appearance. (they'e a giant maggot)  But, there are some countries who have a BSF waste program, where they actually turn organic waste into a useable by-product.  BSF larvae are a very low cost solution.
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I actually never purchased BSF larvae.  Mine just showed up after geckos ate all of the worms in my bin. I just decided to go with it, and have had them ever since.
 
Powelly said:
I would be putting the finished BSF larvae compost onto that pile also
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Why?  You'd be wasting the benefits of the ready compost, by dumping it into a larger, raw pile.
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DWB - First off, I'd not let the BSF compost stay wet.  As I mentioned in the other thread, you can very simply make a bucket/system that will help you separate liquid and solid waste, so that all you have to do, is either dry it and screen it, or mix it with something else - like coco or peat - and use it immediately as a top dress.
 
Red worms digest the more recalcitrant cellulosic materials, something that larvae cannot do. To recover all available nutrients, processing through composting worms is required. Worm castings increase the nutrient availability of compost 3 fold
 
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Powelly said:
Red worms digest the more recalcitrant cellulosic materials, something that larvae cannot do. To recover all available nutrients, processing through composting worms is required. Worm castings increase the nutrient availability of compost 3 fold
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Be that as it may, the compost, when applied as top dress, will finish breaking down, and/or be helped by adding worms to the container. (something that I always recommend be done for larger containers, anyway)
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Good compost should never be "hot", but it doesn't always have to be 100% processed, either.  BSF compost is more than useable.
 
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Powelly said:
You said you'd be "wasting the benefits" which is completely false
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Not from my philosophical standpoint, it isn't.  I want all of the enzymes, microbes and everything else that comes from a fresh batch of digestive compost.  And I want the compressed time frame that cold composting offers.  Otherwise, why not just add everything into the pile, and forget the BSF step?  It's kinda redundant to have 2 compost piles, in that case.
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So no, it's not "completely false".  It's just that you like your own opinions more than you like mine.  As usual.   :rolleyes:
 
In either case, DWB, you don't need much help from two dudes with differing compost opinions.  You clearly have amazing soil, and plenty of acres of it.  You could probably do nothing, and still grow better plants than 99% of the people on this forum.  What a treasure you have there...
 
solid7 said:
 
Why?  You'd be wasting the benefits of the ready compost, by dumping it into a larger, raw pile.
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DWB - First off, I'd not let the BSF compost stay wet.  As I mentioned in the other thread, you can very simply make a bucket/system that will help you separate liquid and solid waste, so that all you have to do, is either dry it and screen it, or mix it with something else - like coco or peat - and use it immediately as a top dress.
 
And from the other thread
 
If you are using a double bucket, then you may want to use a double bucket with a sludge tap.
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In the first bucket, put a 5 gallon paint strainer. (you'll put all of you existing compost plus BSF larvae in here) Drill a 1/4" hole in the bottom of the first bucket, and sleeve it into a second bucket.  The second bucket just needs a way to open the valve and drain the juice once in awhile.  That's highly useful sludge.  You can dilute it about 30 parts water to 1 part juice, and use it weekly to supplement the plants. Good microbe feed/culture.
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Interesting stuff here. These critters have been swimming in the slop since day one. I didn't know they would do better working in dry stuff. My intention wasn't to make dry stuff but to soak garden and kitchen wastes until thoroughly rotten and eventually pour onto my garden soil. The occupation of BSF was an unintended consequence.
 
My double bucket system is two 15 gallon buckets sitting side by side currently holding a total of about 25 gallons of slop. I like the idea of making liquid full of good microbes much better than making compost. I already have a shit ton of compost. One huge old pile with a few yards of finished compost and two more piles in the making. I'll also be covering the garden with another foot of shredded leaves and horse manure just like I did last winter.
 
I'm a fan of microbes now. I treated my pepper patch several times with beneficial microbes to fight pythium and think maybe that had something to do with my plants growing into 10' tall jungle monsters before flopping over due to their own weight.
 
I have more 15 gallon buckets so I'll rig a tap in one, set it on blocks with a 5 or 7 gallon internal bucket to make a better environment for BSF larvae. I need to learn more about how they operate. They've been in the slop buckets with the lids just laying on top. I'm not sure if the climbing pupae have actually been escaping or falling back in to be eaten by the larvae.
 
I am pretty sure mature BSF haven't been going into these buckets to lay eggs so I imagine I've been constantly re-seeding the buckets with egg-laden waste tomatoes and peppers from the pepper patch. I suppose it's a good thing to make access for adult BSF to go in and lay eggs directly. I'm gonna try to keep the buckets uncovered at times but they're awfully stinky.
 
Thanks for the advice. I'm definitely gonna try to maintain this colony for as long as possible.
 
Powelly said:
Red worms digest the more recalcitrant cellulosic materials, something that larvae cannot do. To recover all available nutrients, processing through composting worms is required. Worm castings increase the nutrient availability of compost 3 fold
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If it ever rains here again, I'll catch a bunch of earthworms when they come up for air and put them in the newest compost pile seen above. I suppose I could dig some out of the older piles and spread them around but it's just as easy to pull back mulch around the house and get bunches of them after a big rain.
 
 
solid7 said:
 
 
Not from my philosophical standpoint, it isn't.  I want all of the enzymes, microbes and everything else that comes from a fresh batch of digestive compost.  And I want the compressed time frame that cold composting offers.  Otherwise, why not just add everything into the pile, and forget the BSF step?  It's kinda redundant to have 2 compost piles, in that case.
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So no, it's not "completely false".  It's just that you like your own opinions more than you like mine.  As usual.   :rolleyes:
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It's not redundant because worms and bsf process different materials at different rates. Bsf are very inefficient when it comes to getting nutrients out of organic material because they are using many of the nutrients for themselves. They do well at processing food waste and wet waste. 
The benefits of the bsf compost do not disappear when you then process it through worms, in fact the opposite happens.
 
DWB said:
Interesting stuff here. These critters have been swimming in the slop since day one. I didn't know they would do better working in dry stuff. My intention wasn't to make dry stuff but to soak garden and kitchen wastes until thoroughly rotten and eventually pour onto my garden soil. The occupation of BSF was an unintended consequence.
 
My double bucket system is two 15 gallon buckets sitting side by side currently holding a total of about 25 gallons of slop. I like the idea of making liquid full of good microbes much better than making compost. I already have a shit ton of compost. One huge old pile with a few yards of finished compost and two more piles in the making. I'll also be covering the garden with another foot of shredded leaves and horse manure just like I did last winter.
 
I'm a fan of microbes now. I treated my pepper patch several times with beneficial microbes to fight pythium and think maybe that had something to do with my plants growing into 10' tall jungle monsters before flopping over due to their own weight.
 
I have more 15 gallon buckets so I'll rig a tap in one, set it on blocks with a 5 or 7 gallon internal bucket to make a better environment for BSF larvae. I need to learn more about how they operate. They've been in the slop buckets with the lids just laying on top. I'm not sure if the climbing pupae have actually been escaping or falling back in to be eaten by the larvae.
 
I am pretty sure mature BSF haven't been going into these buckets to lay eggs so I imagine I've been constantly re-seeding the buckets with egg-laden waste tomatoes and peppers from the pepper patch. I suppose it's a good thing to make access for adult BSF to go in and lay eggs directly. I'm gonna try to keep the buckets uncovered at times but they're awfully stinky.
 
Thanks for the advice. I'm definitely gonna try to maintain this colony for as long as possible.
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Sure thing, man  :thumbsup:
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Just a point to note...  Make sure that you have some way to keep the mess off the bottom, and strained out.  Even if you put cheesecloth or something in there - which you'll want to do - if it fully touches the bottom of the container, it will just clog/seal it, and prevent drainage.  There are multiple ways to get clever with this, but make sure that you do.  Because you're right, the big bang from this method, is capturing that liquid gold. 
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Microbes are definitely your friend, but so are fungi.  That is almost certainly what is creating your monster growth.  The leaves and straw/hay are culturing a web of fungi, that form a food chain with the plants in the root zone.  You will literally never need to fertilize that garden, if you keep going with the method that you've chosen.  This is why we sometimes say around here, that the best garden is a soil garden with lots and lots of organic matter added in.  It's just unbeatable. 
 
 
As an added bit of advice...  If you notch the lid of your container, make sure that the netting/strainer goes all the way up to the rim, the larvae will be able to make their way out.  You could put a round oil pan or something over the top of that, so that critters don't see them constantly crawling out, and picking them off.  Then, find a clever way to catch them when they drop out. 
 
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