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Building a new pepper garden.... Need your help.
- Thread starter Beaglestorm
- Start date
No. You still want a well drained soil, but no where near the level required in a container since you won't have a perched water table to contend with and any excess water supply in one area has the large soil mass to correct it quickly. Your plan to use a top soil with compost should work very well. Depending on the PH of your soil an addition of Dolomite or gypsum would also be a good idea.
I have raised beds myself and love them. 10 times easier to grow compared to containers. When you say your soil is rocky what do you mean exactly? Can you dig in it with a shovel or do you need a backhoe? If you can dig through it fairly easily with a shovel I wouldn't worry too much. The roots shouldn't have a problem. In terms of the grass, I just turn mine over and chop it up vigorously. Then cover that with the new soil. Your beds are 1'x5'x30' right? So...you will probably need like 17 yards. It will be really expensive if you try filling that with potting mix. I would suggest you hit up several nurseries in your area and see what they have. You may be able to find fill dirt for $15 a yard but you get what you pay for. I would recommend looking for something decent and spend a little more money. That way you don't have to put a lot of money into amending it. Some nurseries will deliver for free if you are within 5 miles of the place. Good luck with everything. I would also recommend investing in a large shovel. It took me forever to shovel up and empty 4 yards into my beds.
I'm sure what various vendors classify as "top soil" will vary. IMO, the ideal top soil is a sandy loam and when enriched with compost and amended with dolomite it will provide adequate drainage and nutrients for peppers. Of course, feeding with compost/worm tea doesn't hurt a bit. 
Here in Minneapolis we have a county compost site. It's the place you bring your leaves and other yard waste to for free. They also sell beautiful compost,black dirt,and even a "garden mix" which consists of compost,black dirt and sand. They load it into your truck or trailer with a bobcat and it's only like 8 or 10 bucks a yard. Don't know if you have something similar near you but it would be worth looking into. Also they are very picky about what you bring there so it's good stuff.
This is more along the lines of what I was hoping for. Yea, just good quality topsoil with nice compost and some ammendments for PH and any anything else peppers need to thrive.No. You still want a well drained soil, but no where near the level required in a container since you won't have a perched water table to contend with and any excess water supply in one area has the large soil mass to correct it quickly. Your plan to use a top soil with compost should work very well. Depending on the PH of your soil an addition of Dolomite or gypsum would also be a good idea.
I'm sure what various vendors classify as "top soil" will vary. IMO, the ideal top soil is a sandy loam and when enriched with compost and amended with dolomite it will provide adequate drainage and nutrients for peppers. Of course, feeding with compost/worm tea doesn't hurt a bit.
Thanks Josh, I agree since the yard is under construction anyway, I want to do it right. It will never be easier to do than now as I have several people to help with the soil moving at the moment. As for the rocky soil, we live about 1/5 of a mile from the side of a mountain. I can usually dig about 12 inches down then layers of big rocks start to appear. It is hit or miss from that point…. some times a hole will go slowly down others you will hit a huge rock. The quotes I have got for top soil have been all over the place. Need to go see it before the truck just arrives and dumps in the yard..
Great idea, I will call the county and the city on Monday see if they offer something similar.
If you have help and plan on digging down 12" I would also recommend sifting the soil to remove the large rocks. You can easily build a sifter with a couple of 2x4s and some hardware cloth. Here is a quick example I drew in paint.
One person stands on each side and you can shake it back and forth. You can also recruit a 3rd person to shovel dirt onto the screen.
I think it is a good idea to check the soil out before you buy. That way you can make sure it is as advertised.
Ok all these great ideas have really helped, thanks everybody. Started pricing wood last week to make the boxes and was shocked at what it was going to cost to build the three 30’ beds. I did not want to use railroad ties or t-poles because of the chemicals, So MaGuiver in me came to life and started brainstorming… Found this virgin scrap steel in the back of our construction yard at the office. 18 feet long, 14 inches high and 5 inches wide. I am going to compromise and do only two 36' beds(~64 Plants)instead of three. It’s going to be a pain to get them to the house (2 at a time) and to work with them (700 lbs each) but they are free and should look really cool once in. The only problems I see using them would be that they will get very hot in the summer but I was thinking if I paint the outside white or silver it will help a lot. As for the inside, anybody know a coating to apply to the inside of the steel to keep it from rusting that is safe for gardening? Also any other negatives or reasons not to use the steel? Thanks
The steel beams look like a great idea. There is a piece of steel mostly buried under one of my fences that is hardly rusted at all. I've lived here almost 8 years and it was there when we moved in. They should last a long time for you.
I would think enamel paint would be garden safe but don't know that for fact.
I would think enamel paint would be garden safe but don't know that for fact.
Whoa, that's gonna be a pain to move and install, but no one will ever steel your materials. 
White Rust-Oleum for the exterior will help cut down on the heat, but I expect the metal will still collect a lot of heat during one of your 100F days.
I don't believe that leaving the interior unpainted will be a problem. That steel will be around longer than you before it rusts away.
Have you looked into pricing concrete blocks. Much easier to work with and will outlive you as well.
White Rust-Oleum for the exterior will help cut down on the heat, but I expect the metal will still collect a lot of heat during one of your 100F days.
I don't believe that leaving the interior unpainted will be a problem. That steel will be around longer than you before it rusts away.
Have you looked into pricing concrete blocks. Much easier to work with and will outlive you as well.
Finally got the steel moved to the house. Whew! We set it in place to see what it would look like. 36" between the two rows did not seem enough room so we are going to move it to 48". Set them on blocks to level them and now we have about 18" - 22" of depth inside the raised planters. Still have to figure out hot to finish it and make it look nice but the modern look of the steel will go well with the rest of the house. Also need to figure out how many branches to cut. I still think the shade of the tree will help in the 100+ June and July we have here but will it be too much shade? For now I have decided for 2 36' long beds 48" wide with plants spaced at 24". I wanted 30" but will try 24" this season to squeeze in a few more and see how well it works. More updates soon...
Man would that look like a million bucks if you could use rocks similar to the ones in the walls to finish off the planters. Two million!
Wonder what the cost of a few sheets of galvanized tin would run? Keep with the metallic look.
I am really looking forward to how this looks when it's done Michael, best of luck to you buddy.
Wonder what the cost of a few sheets of galvanized tin would run? Keep with the metallic look.
I am really looking forward to how this looks when it's done Michael, best of luck to you buddy.
Sorry no updated photos yet.. will snap some this weekend. Have a question about filling the planters. They ended up 18" to 24" inches deep depending on which end your at. Now I am ready to fill them with soil next week.
1. Do I have to cover the bottom of the planters with Filter Fabric (weed barrier fabric) if they are 24" deep?
2. I am using mostly a red desert topsoil to fill these planters. I was thinking a 3" or 4" layer of sand at the bottom of each planter would help with drainage (or maybe pea gravel?). Is that necessary? Then, I am going to amend the soil with some compost and some special soil from Soilsecrets.com that my local shop will be getting next week.
3. Do you all recommend a wood mulch or fabric to cover the soil on top. I have even seen a red fabric that is supposed to reflect red light to help with fruiting for tomatoes and thinking it might work on chiles.
4. Irrigation… I am going to be running PVC down the middle I am just having a hard time deciding if I should use bubbles, sprinklers, or what? Also would it helpwith the pressure to have the line come in at the center and then split each way or just have one long run from one end. (see Pic) The planters are 36 long.
Here is a pic:
1. Do I have to cover the bottom of the planters with Filter Fabric (weed barrier fabric) if they are 24" deep?
2. I am using mostly a red desert topsoil to fill these planters. I was thinking a 3" or 4" layer of sand at the bottom of each planter would help with drainage (or maybe pea gravel?). Is that necessary? Then, I am going to amend the soil with some compost and some special soil from Soilsecrets.com that my local shop will be getting next week.
3. Do you all recommend a wood mulch or fabric to cover the soil on top. I have even seen a red fabric that is supposed to reflect red light to help with fruiting for tomatoes and thinking it might work on chiles.
4. Irrigation… I am going to be running PVC down the middle I am just having a hard time deciding if I should use bubbles, sprinklers, or what? Also would it helpwith the pressure to have the line come in at the center and then split each way or just have one long run from one end. (see Pic) The planters are 36 long.
Here is a pic:
1. Do I have to cover the bottom of the planters with Filter Fabric (weed barrier fabric) if they are 24" deep?
Nope
2. I am using mostly a red desert topsoil to fill these planters. I was thinking a 3" or 4" layer of sand at the bottom of each planter would help with drainage (or maybe pea gravel?). Is that necessary? Then, I am going to amend the soil with some compost and some special soil from Soilsecrets.com that my local shop will be getting next week.
Not necessary IMO. I'd just let your mix ride atop of the existing yard soil.
3. Do you all recommend a wood mulch or fabric to cover the soil on top. I have even seen a red fabric that is supposed to reflect red light to help with fruiting for tomatoes and thinking it might work on chiles.
For a bed I would use wood mulch.
4. Irrigation… I am going to be running PVC down the middle I am just having a hard time deciding if I should use bubbles, sprinklers, or what? Also would it helpwith the pressure to have the line come in at the center and then split each way or just have one long run from one end. (see Pic) The planters are 36’ long.
For a short 36ft run connecting at the end or middle shouldn't matter with 3/4" PVC. I'd use emitters attached to a 1/4" drop line to each of the plants.
Nope
2. I am using mostly a red desert topsoil to fill these planters. I was thinking a 3" or 4" layer of sand at the bottom of each planter would help with drainage (or maybe pea gravel?). Is that necessary? Then, I am going to amend the soil with some compost and some special soil from Soilsecrets.com that my local shop will be getting next week.
Not necessary IMO. I'd just let your mix ride atop of the existing yard soil.
3. Do you all recommend a wood mulch or fabric to cover the soil on top. I have even seen a red fabric that is supposed to reflect red light to help with fruiting for tomatoes and thinking it might work on chiles.
For a bed I would use wood mulch.
4. Irrigation… I am going to be running PVC down the middle I am just having a hard time deciding if I should use bubbles, sprinklers, or what? Also would it helpwith the pressure to have the line come in at the center and then split each way or just have one long run from one end. (see Pic) The planters are 36’ long.
For a short 36ft run connecting at the end or middle shouldn't matter with 3/4" PVC. I'd use emitters attached to a 1/4" drop line to each of the plants.
I wouldn't waste your time with a barrier between the ground and the raised bed. It might actually somewhat impede drainage?
I would also skip that drainage layer. I think contact with the underlying soil will actually be better for drainage. As long as the native soil also drains well.
I used cedar mulch on my beds for 2 seasons. I really liked it but I found a couple of cons. The first is the price. It costs quite a bit to put down 2-3 inches. It was also difficult to work with the following season. It was a pain to rake it into a pile so I could work compost etc. into the soil. I am now using hay. $6.50 for a bail and that covers my 2 raised beds (132sq.ft.). At this point most of the hay from last season is broken down and I will be able to easily rake the remainer out of my way. Warning though, the cheap bales like mine come with weed seeds. Salt hay does not but it twice as much.
I would also skip that drainage layer. I think contact with the underlying soil will actually be better for drainage. As long as the native soil also drains well.
I used cedar mulch on my beds for 2 seasons. I really liked it but I found a couple of cons. The first is the price. It costs quite a bit to put down 2-3 inches. It was also difficult to work with the following season. It was a pain to rake it into a pile so I could work compost etc. into the soil. I am now using hay. $6.50 for a bail and that covers my 2 raised beds (132sq.ft.). At this point most of the hay from last season is broken down and I will be able to easily rake the remainer out of my way. Warning though, the cheap bales like mine come with weed seeds. Salt hay does not but it twice as much.
Here is a couple websites with some great pics and explanation of "wicking beds"....(a sub-irrigation system)Sorry no updated photos yet.. will snap some this weekend. Have a question about filling the planters. They ended up 18" to 24" inches deep depending on which end your at. Now I am ready to fill them with soil next week.
1. Do I have to cover the bottom of the planters with Filter Fabric (weed barrier fabric) if they are 24" deep?
2. I am using mostly a red desert topsoil to fill these planters. I was thinking a 3" or 4" layer of sand at the bottom of each planter would help with drainage (or maybe pea gravel?). Is that necessary? Then, I am going to amend the soil with some compost and some special soil from Soilsecrets.com that my local shop will be getting next week.
3. Do you all recommend a wood mulch or fabric to cover the soil on top. I have even seen a red fabric that is supposed to reflect red light to help with fruiting for tomatoes and thinking it might work on chiles.
4. Irrigation… I am going to be running PVC down the middle I am just having a hard time deciding if I should use bubbles, sprinklers, or what? Also would it helpwith the pressure to have the line come in at the center and then split each way or just have one long run from one end. (see Pic) The planters are 36’ long.
Here is a pic:
http://stemoutbackharvest.blogspot.com/2008/09/wicking-worm-beds.html
http://scarecrowsgarden.blogspot.com/search/label/wicking-water%20beds
They use them in areas of Austraila that sound similar to what you are working with.Plus,sometimes they build a mini worm farm right into the bed.
Maybe you'll find the info helpful.
Thanks for al the responses. Leaving out the weed barrier and sand will give me more to spend on compost and amendments for the soil. I think I will try the wood mulch this year.. they also have pecan shell mulch at my nursery. I will ask them if it would be appropriate for my use. SO now the last issue I think is how to protect my plants from the relentless wind and July/August sun. I am more worried about the wind as the winds here will be April & May when the plants are small, young and more delicate. My thought was to weld hoop holders on the outside of the planter spaced every 4 feet or so. Then run a PVC pipe across it held with a cotter pin. Then put some shade cloth or net curtain over it like a row cover. I am just not sure how to attach the cloth to the hoops in a way strong enough that it does not rip apart when it is windy. Here are some pictures of what I would like to do:
Hoop Holder
Option A using 1/2 inch PVC in a hoop shape:
Option B using 3/4 inch PVC in a square shape:
Is PVC strong enough? Is there a better reasonably priced material to use? I know a lot of people have tried using PVC with varying levels of success. My plants will be in a pretty protected area with my rock wall on one side and the house next door acting as wind breaks but at least once a week April-May we get 40-50 MPH winds and nasty blowing dust. What do you all think?
Hoop Holder
Option A using 1/2 inch PVC in a hoop shape:
Option B using 3/4 inch PVC in a square shape:
Is PVC strong enough? Is there a better reasonably priced material to use? I know a lot of people have tried using PVC with varying levels of success. My plants will be in a pretty protected area with my rock wall on one side and the house next door acting as wind breaks but at least once a week April-May we get 40-50 MPH winds and nasty blowing dust. What do you all think?
I think the rounded hoop will be more aerodynamic. If you secure it to the beams with bolts instead of screws you should be fine. I grew up where you live and remember those winds and sandstorms well. The pvc will give a little in the wind and not break. Invest in a high quality thicker plastic and it will last more than one season and hold up to the wind. Keep it going...you are doing great!
First off I live in a much cooler climate than you and have to battle snow so I use clear plastic to cover mine.
I have a 12' X 20' hoop house that uses 1" PVC and it is way strong even with the few errors I made and will fix once a calm warm spring day shows up. My spacing is every 27". I don't even clear it off when it snows (does it on it's own) and it sustains 60 mph winds. I googled and looked at a bunch of peoples hoop houses and just ignored what most of theirs looked like and did it how I wanted to. The key seems to be running a ridge line on top of the PVC hoops, most the designs I saw that were DIY didn't do this. Most didn't use 1". I also ran two more purlins, one on each side of the hoops but on the inside. All this I bolted together with carriage bolts.
I really doubt you need to make as beefy as I did. But I would probably go with 3/4" hoops every 3-4 feet with some purlins to tie it all together. How cold of temps do you get at night? You could always cover with clear plastic to protect them more from the wind.
I'd just get a bunch of sandbags to hold it all down. So you can uncover if you feel the need.
I have a 12' X 20' hoop house that uses 1" PVC and it is way strong even with the few errors I made and will fix once a calm warm spring day shows up. My spacing is every 27". I don't even clear it off when it snows (does it on it's own) and it sustains 60 mph winds. I googled and looked at a bunch of peoples hoop houses and just ignored what most of theirs looked like and did it how I wanted to. The key seems to be running a ridge line on top of the PVC hoops, most the designs I saw that were DIY didn't do this. Most didn't use 1". I also ran two more purlins, one on each side of the hoops but on the inside. All this I bolted together with carriage bolts.
I really doubt you need to make as beefy as I did. But I would probably go with 3/4" hoops every 3-4 feet with some purlins to tie it all together. How cold of temps do you get at night? You could always cover with clear plastic to protect them more from the wind.
I'd just get a bunch of sandbags to hold it all down. So you can uncover if you feel the need.