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frutescens C.Frutescens Flower : White Corolla with no markings - always ???

These 2 flowers (I thought)  are/were Cap Frutescens.  In all aspects ie 90deg angle of flowers, erect pods, etc  looks like Frutescens BUT  its flowers of this group are generally described with this botanical traits "The flowers have greenish-white corollas with no spots and purple anthers" (Fiery Foods).
 
These 2 are not and in fact have rather quite unique markings not seen bf.  I still think they are Frutescens but what are your opinion?
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C. frutescens x C. baccatum is a possibility, Alice. It would explain the flower markings and the unusual colouring for a frutescens berry. Did both variations grow from seed out of the same batch? That would suggest hybrid instability.
 
gasificada said:
C. frutescens x C. baccatum is a possibility, Alice. It would explain the flower markings and the unusual colouring for a frutescens berry. Did both variations grow from seed out of the same batch? That would suggest hybrid instability.
Gassy,  maybe I have not explained clearly:  2 different variety there;  one is CB Putih (white, 1st)  & the other CB Ungu.  What I had meant was (after googling info on frutescens) that they should really be white corolla without markings but these 2 varieties have markings and quite different from general expectations of Frutescens.  So each is different Frutescen variety
 
Very odd markings for a C.frutescens, Alice, as you say. I`m unaware of any baccatums grown in that part of the world, too. Of course, I`m hardly the world`s expert on anything baccatum!
 
This is from a key by Smith at NMSU,
 
A. Corolla solid color, white to waxy yellow green, without spots or other contrasting colors
B. Anthers pale blue to purple
C. Flowers solitary (sometimes 2 ot first flowering node), white, calyx distinctly ridged, small teeth (less than 1 mm) at margin
 
While yours appear slightly at odds with this, there are very often exceptions to the rules governing species. Species is a human concept, after all. 
It would be very interesting to do some DNA sequencing on material from these 2 varieties.
 
Nigel said:
Very odd markings for a C.frutescens, Alice, as you say. I`m unaware of any baccatums grown in that part of the world, too. Of course, I`m hardly the world`s expert on anything baccatum!
 
This is from a key by Smith at NMSU,
 
A. Corolla solid color, white to waxy yellow green, without spots or other contrasting colors
B. Anthers pale blue to purple
C. Flowers solitary (sometimes 2 ot first flowering node), white, calyx distinctly ridged, small teeth (less than 1 mm) at margin
 
While yours appear slightly at odds with this, there are very often exceptions to the rules governing species. Species is a human concept, after all. 
It would be very interesting to do some DNA sequencing on material from these 2 varieties
Yes Nigel, I googled and found same descriptions but I will post few more pic to show why I think it is Frutescens (with exceptions, few!)
CB Ungu (purplish filament/1-3flowers per node/
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Cabai Burung Putih (also I think is Frutescen but...corolla flower again)
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cbputih.jpg
Pods where I extracted seeds from!
 
Huuummm,  The leaves look like a C. frutescens although they do have more of a heart shape to them along with some purple coloration to both the stems and leaves The flower how ever tells me that CB Ungu has the markings of some baccatum genes in it. It could be that at one point it may have crossed with a baccatum and has since become a stable cross, if it grows true for you in another season from the seeds taken from this years grow out.
CB Putih looks more like a C. frutescens with the narrow leaves there are some yellow frutescens, but I have not seen one that was white, although I'm not familiar with all of the C. frutescens that are out there. Like Nigel stated one would have to look at the gene markers for that species to confirm whether or not it may have crossed with another species. I can't tell from the photo's of the flowers from behind I would need to see it from the front of the flower like the one you took of CB Ungu.
At any rate they are quite a nice find.
 
The purple flower is interesting. I have never seen one like that.

The other one resembles PI 322717 corolla with fruit resembling Ankor Sunrise. I can't say if it is an interspecific hybrid. C.frutescen typically have pinkish purple filaments and blueish purple anthers. I have seen corollas with different shades of green. Most have a yellowish green but I have seen them plain green like some immature chinense flowers.

Both are very cool. Nice score.
 
There are some nurseries in Malaysia that grow and sell baccatum plants that look like Blondie. Also these nurseries are sloppy when it comes to seed collecting and are known to get their habs crossed with fructecens but not sure if they would be supplying seedlings to commercial farmers. The common Cabai ungu (purple fructescens) that I have grown before does have a slight yellowish base spots, but not as strong as yours. Alas I wasn't blogging at that time (and haven't come across baccatums at that time to notice the oddity) so there was no desire to photograph them.
 
pepperomia said:
There are some nurseries in Malaysia that grow and sell baccatum plants that look like Blondie. Also these nurseries are sloppy when it comes to seed collecting and are known to get their habs crossed with fructecens but not sure if they would be supplying seedlings to commercial farmers. The common Cabai ungu (purple fructescens) that I have grown before does have a slight yellowish base spots, but not as strong as yours. Alas I wasn't blogging at that time (and haven't come across baccatums at that time to notice the oddity) so there was no desire to photograph them.
Thanks for the info.  I believe this CB ungu grew quite commonly in the north of Malaysia Barat bordering Thailand.  I saw them around while googling and Tropical Spice garden in Penang have a collections of this.  The white one CB putih I seen them & collected them in some people's garden in KL.  Much more common in KL
Pr0digal_son said:
The purple flower is interesting. I have never seen one like that.

The other one resembles PI 322717 corolla with fruit resembling Ankor Sunrise. I can't say if it is an interspecific hybrid. C.frutescen typically have pinkish purple filaments and blueish purple anthers. I have seen corollas with different shades of green. Most have a yellowish green but I have seen them plain green like some immature chinense flowers.

Both are very cool. Nice score.
Funny you should mentioned PI322717 which I will be growing this coming new season.  While googling this variety I noticed in this forum someone grew it and referred also as Fatalii Gourmet Aji Fantasy http://thehotpepper.com/topic/42256-fatalii-gourmet-aji-fantasy-pi-322717/  but this is a completely different one from those sold in FataliiSeeds.net  In the latter the flower looks just like this CB Putih
pi322717_flower.jpg
(flower PI322717 courtesy of FataliiSeeds.net)
 
justecila said:
Yes, got the seeds for this from someone in Sarawak but thanks for pointing to its name
No problem :-). I think they love this type of cabai in Jogjakarta too. You get it with various meals that you buy off the street vendor.
 
#justecila :welcome: . Love peppers, but alas, limited by growing space plus my OCD makes me worry too much when growing peppers - worry bout virus diseases and cross-pollination.
 
wildseed57 said:
Huuummm,  The leaves look like a C. frutescens although they do have more of a heart shape to them along with some purple coloration to both the stems and leaves The flower how ever tells me that CB Ungu has the markings of some baccatum genes in it. It could be that at one point it may have crossed with a baccatum and has since become a stable cross, if it grows true for you in another season from the seeds taken from this years grow out.
CB Putih looks more like a C. frutescens with the narrow leaves there are some yellow frutescens, but I have not seen one that was white, although I'm not familiar with all of the C. frutescens that are out there. Like Nigel stated one would have to look at the gene markers for that species to confirm whether or not it may have crossed with another species. I can't tell from the photo's of the flowers from behind I would need to see it from the front of the flower like the one you took of CB Ungu.
At any rate they are quite a nice find.
Thanks for the information.  Front view of CB Putih flower is in the beginning of the posts (top of page)
 
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