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Cayenne Coco Coir Experiment Glog

This is just a small glog where I will be testing out finely sifted coco coir versus chunky coarse coco coir.
I used a brick (Nutrifield 5kg block) which was expanded in my bath tub and then let some coco dry out. It was then sieved and seperated into two piles, fine coco and coarse coco.
This idea came from Blister and you can read more about it in his thread here.
Supposedly this coco coir was buffered and RHP certified but it has been washed with 5ml/gallon of calmag (PH'd to 5.8) to be safe.
 
I took some cayenne seeds from a fresh pepper and dried them and then soaked them in diluted black tea for 12 hours.
Then I planted 7 seeds in 1 cup of fine coco and 7 seeds in 1 cup of coarse coco.
 
The cups were placed outside in the sun and brought inside at night, no heating mat or humidity domes.
 
Apologies for the photo quality, my phone camera is not the best.
 
Day 1:
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The fine coco on the left only needs 1-2 mistings, maybe 3 on a very sunny day. The coarse coco on the right dries out a lot quicker and needs to be misted up to 10 times per day.
 
Day 7:
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The seedlings emerge. One in the fine coco on the left and 3 in the coarse coco on the right. It looks like the seed casing is stuck on the coarse coco seeds but is not stuck on the fine coco seeds.
 
Day 8:
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Lots of growth over 24 hours. On the left in the fine coco 2 seedlings have emerged but not fully, it looks like they will not have helmet heads.  6 seeds have emerged from the coarse coco on the right but many of them have helmet heads. Currently it looks like the germination is slower in fine coco but will result in less helmet heads. My guess is that if these were in a humidity dome and over a heat pad the germination speed for both fine and coarse coco would be very similar.
 
My current conclusion is that the finer coco might take a little bit longer to germinate but the amount of helmet heads will be significantly less. If this is the case I think the trade off is worth it. I'd rather have germination take a few days longer than have helmet heads which can potentially kill a seedling but only time will tell what will happen.
 
Another update will be posted when there is a significant change.
 
Once these are bigger I will be taking the four healthiest looking seedlings and placing each one in a red solo shot cup with fresh sieved coarse canna professional plus coco.
Cayenne A will get plain tap water (no PH)
Cayenne B will get plain tap water (PH'd to 5.8)
Cayenne C will get diluted lucas formula + cal mag (PH'd to 5.8)
Cayenne B will get diluted lucas formula + cal mag + Indole-3-butyric Acid/Amino Acid blend (PH'd to 5.8).
After a while we will see what the differences in feeding does to the width, height and health of the plants, the colour of the leaves, the amount of the leaves and the size and health of the roots.
 
Thank you for reading.
 
Following. All these experiments this year are very interesting. I'll be making a couple changes to my grow is I see some things that improve growth. Anything g to help growth and production.
 
I would prefer the coarse long-fiber coco. I think it has superior properties, except for maybe its usefulness in removing seed coats. Since the particle size is greater, so is the pore size, and it retains a more airy structure than the fines. I think it would do much better under a steady drip irrigation where it's constantly wet. With the diluted lucas formula, I assume you're treating the coco like hydro. How often will you be feeding them?
 
Yes I will be treating it like hydro but only feeding when necessary (when the coco is drying a bit, not every day at first). Since they'll be started in solo shot cups and maybe transplanted into bigger solo cups this may be every day, every second day and or even every third day depending on what each plant needs. I predict as the plants grow they'll need feeding more and more often and maybe even more than once a day. If it gets to the point that they need feeding more than twice a day they'll be transplanted to a bigger cup. They will be fed with every watering. This experiment was more to see what type of coco would be better for germination.
 
H2o2 soaking may actually help with the helmet head situation and if it does then the coarse coco will be the clear winner here. That is something I will be trying very soon.
 
Mr. West said:
I would prefer the coarse long-fiber coco. I think it has superior properties, except for maybe its usefulness in removing seed coats.
 

Yes I agree. I think with starting seeds in individual cups I would put a big layer of coarse coco at the bottom, place the seed on top and then sprinkle a layer of fine/sand coco on top.
 
I guess that would probably work better for shelling them.
 
fairyfoam48 said:
This experiment was more to see what type of coco would be better for germination.
 
I've read Blister's thread before, it just wasn't fresh in my mind.
I'm following this one. Your plan sounds good. Looking forward to the updates. Best of luck to you.
 
fairyfoam48 said:
 
Yes I agree. I think with starting seeds in individual cups I would put a big layer of coarse coco at the bottom, place the seed on top and then sprinkle a layer of fine/sand coco on top.
 
How's it going FF?  Enjoying your experimenting. I've been doing something similar to that, sandwiching them in a fine peat-based starter mix (above a soil mix) and slightly on the deeper side, and it's been working very well for me.  Those fine compact particles seem to really grab at the seed coat and keep it moist too.
 
CaneDog said:
 
How's it going FF?  Enjoying your experimenting. I've been doing something similar to that, sandwiching them in a fine peat-based starter mix (above a soil mix) and slightly on the deeper side, and it's been working very well for me.  Those fine compact particles seem to really grab at the seed coat and keep it moist too.
 
I 100% agree with you about the fine compact particles. There is more surface area for the seeds to work against which makes it harder for them to push up to the light but once they do they'll be thirsty for light after all that hard work.
 
There have been more sprouts. There have been no helmet heads yet with the fine coco but the coarse coco has had a few.
 
The coarse coco seeds are germinating and sprouting much faster than the fine coco seeds. My theory is that this may be due to humidity. Because this is being done outside I am having to spray the coco when it dries out. The coarse coco dries out much faster so I need to spray it more often meaning the seeds are being exposed to more moisture (I guess? idk, just a theory). Perhaps inside a humidity dome the sprouting times would be equal with both the coarse and fine coco.
 
Day 9 fine coco - 5 out of 7 have emerged.
 
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One seed has fully sprouted and four more are on their way. It looks like there will be no helmet heads or any sign of the seed coating at all.
 
 
 
 
Day 9 coarse coco - 6 out of 7 have emerged.
 
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Some have had the seed stuck, some have not. It looks like one will have a helmet head that may have to be removed with tweezers and another one has a seed still stuck to one cotyledon.
 
 
 
 
Only time will tell how long it takes for all of the seeds to emerge fully (if they even do).
 
Really cool stuff FF and I'm interested to see how this continues. And congrats on all the sprouts!
 
My theory on faster germination with the loose is better access to oxygen, which I try to achieve by not allowing the medium to saturate - and actually letting it get borderline dry periodically. The cotyledons on the loose look uncommonly close to the surface - do you notice that or maybe it just appears that way to me viewing the image?
 
CaneDog said:
The cotyledons on the loose look uncommonly close to the surface - do you notice that or maybe it just appears that way to me viewing the image?
 
I didn't even notice that, just checked now and you're right. They are significantly closer to the surface in the coarse/loose coco. The one that has fully sprouted in the fine coco has cotyledons much higher. Wow!
 
In a way this goes back to what I was saying earlier with the trade off. You can have faster germination with coarse coco but the trade off is that the seed coating can get stuck and now we have also learned the cotyledons will be closer to the top of the soil line.
 
Yeah, ok, so  I wonder then if what's happening is the seed coat is sticking in the denser finer particles causing the seedling to form/grow more of a hook above the seed coat both pulling off the seed coat off and also causing a longer seedling once it surfaces, while the loose particles let the seed coat rise through the soil faster, so less stretch/growth of the hook, faster surfacing, but more stuck seed coats?
 
CaneDog said:
Yeah, ok, so  I wonder then if what's happening is the seed coat is sticking in the denser finer particles causing the seedling to form/grow more of a hook above the seed coat both pulling off the seed coat off and also causing a longer seedling once it surfaces, while the loose particles let the seed coat rise through the soil faster, so less stretch/growth of the hook, faster surfacing, but more stuck seed coats?
 
Yes, this could be the case. Maybe there is less surface area for the seed to push through in the looser coco.
 
Today I let the coco dry out a bit, the coco under the surface is still moist so I'm going to not water for a day or two to let the roots search for water.
 
Day 10 - Fine Coco
 
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5/7 seeds have emerged. It looks like they will all be healthy. I'm starting to think perhaps the other 2 seeds were not viable. No helmet heads on any of the seeds that have emerged.
 
 
Day 10 - Coarse Coco
 
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6/7 seeds have emerged. 5 are looking healthy but 1 has a helmet head, maybe it will break free or maybe the seedling will die but I am not going to be touching it at all. Perhaps the final seed that hasn't emerged in this cup is not viable.
 
My opinion on coarse vs fine coco is still the same. The coarse coco germinates faster but has a higher chance of helmet heads. The fine coco germinates slower but has a significantly lower rate of helmet heads (in this case, no helmet heads at all).
 
Well, this stage of the experiment has finished
 
Day 11
 
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5/7 seeds in fine coco sprouted. They are all healthy.
6/7 seeds in coarse coco sprouted. 5 are healthy but 1 is a helmet head that is going to die if I don't intervene.
 
Next season I will be using the fine coco for germinating my seeds.
 
I'm changing up my plan. I'm just going to be saving the 3 healthiest seedlings and transplanting them into solo shot cups and feeding them all the same nutrients. I just want to see how big they can get in solo shot cups. Originally I was going to do 4 and have different nutrients but the time it will take to Ph everything properly is too much.
 
For the 3 seedlings I have saved, they will be transplanted into red solo shot cup tonight (50ml cups) in coarse coco coir.
 
I will be watering them with Ph'd tap water that has had a small amount of Indole-3-butyric Acid and amino acids added and will be watering them with this until they show their first true leaves. After that they will be getting a diluted lucas formula with a little bit of calmag plus the IBA/amino acids.
 
Thanks for reading
 
CaneDog said:
Sprouts are looking really good!
 

Yeah and the best part is that since they were germinated with no heating pad, humidity dome or artificial lights it means they can take full sun without being hardened off.
 
It has been a while since I last posted. I had originally planned to do a series of tests but couldn't find the time. Instead only one cayenne was repotted into a small plastic double cup (200ml cup) with coarse coco coir.
 
It has been fed lucas formula at ¼ strength, calmag, indole-3-butyric acid and amino acids every 3 or 4 days. It grew very slowly at first but last week the roots starting coming out of the bottom of the cup. Starting yesterday it is getting ½ strength, calmag, indole-3-butyric acid and amino acids once per day.
 
Yesterday I also pruned all of the side shoots because it is starting to produce buds and I want this plant to produce at least 1 pepper before the season ends.
 
This is how the plant looks now (ignore the wilting, it's because of sun, it looks fine early in the morning).
 
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and here are the roots
 
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The roots are healthy looking and are now ready to be watered every day. Because of this the growth will be faster than it was before.
 
It is late autumn here so the summer sun has been and gone. If this plant was under artificial lights the entire time it would be much bigger.
 
 
 
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