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media Coco peat ruined my seedlings and this whole season!
- Thread starter future_man
- Start date
Coir most definitely can be overwatered, particularly after transplant. A wet dry cycle isn't needed, I generally call it the moist wet cycle. EC in the root zone will skyrocket as the salt to water ratio narrows, frying roots.
The "can't be overwatered" myth is perpetuated by many. Hard to overwater is more accurate. Once roots are established and they are asking for water every or less than 24 hours you can work up to multifeed but before is usually an issue.
User error ≠ product fail.
Excellent posts Blister.
The "can't be overwatered" myth is perpetuated by many. Hard to overwater is more accurate. Once roots are established and they are asking for water every or less than 24 hours you can work up to multifeed but before is usually an issue.
User error ≠ product fail.
Excellent posts Blister.
Ah right. I missed that on my first reading. I don't personally care for the really fine grind coco. It just hasn't worked as well for me with chili peppers. It really holds the water when compared to the coarse stuff. I had an issue with it earlier this year from bags of Royal Gold as well as Canna Coco. Both have a mixture of extremely fine espresso grind with a bit of coarse grind. I tried using perlite with it, but the results didn't change. In the end I actually took a fine steel mesh strainer and sifted all the remaining coco I had on hand. This is what the result was after a few hours work. The coarse grind is on the left and the fine grind is on the right. I put the fine grind onto my lawn. (Sorry for the blurry pic).Jambo said:
After repotting my seedlings into the coarse grind they seemed to do much better. Drainage was almost instant, yet it held enough nutes for the plants to go a few days before watering again.
Neil
Blister said:
Thanks for this great post Neil. This is the info I needed.
What kind of strainer did you use? ...like a kitchen type mesh strainer? I have 4 blocks of this coco left. I'm going to do exactly as you did. I'll probably wind up with about 50% waste, but better 50% good than 100% that is tricky to use.
Now that I think of it, the stuff in the cups was really fibrey and coarse... water pretty much fell right through it. Maybe all the lighter coarser coco was at the top of my bin when I filled the cups, and the denser, finer grind was left over, which I filled my large pots with. Makes sense, as it would be heavier.
I also recall that the Botanicare brand coco had a lot of fibers and ropey strands in it and It did drain very well.
I'd also like to mention that those small blocks of Botanicare had as much sand/salt wash off as a whole 5kg block of this generic coco. But it was much coarser than what i'm using now, and once cleaned it had great drainage.
I guess that's why the generic coco was $7/5kg and the botanicare are $5 for a small brick.
Thanks all for the interesting info.
(sorry to OP if it seems that I hijacked your post, but as you can see we've both had similar problems. I hope that the info presented here has benefitted you as well.)
Ken
Yes it was the fine kitchen mesh strainer. From the dollar store to boot. I'd put about two handfuls into it at a time and bang it against my palm until it was sifted. It's easier to do when it's moist/close to dry.
The result is course and fiber coir with great drainage. You shouldn't need to use perlite after you do this.
Neil
The result is course and fiber coir with great drainage. You shouldn't need to use perlite after you do this.
Neil
I used california substrates coco coir. With worm castings and perlite. Out the bag it is fluffy and about 70 percent long strands 30 percent shorter. It has like a burgundy tinge to it. There's no washing necessary and it is treated.
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.
Indeed coir is tricky and requires a lot of work. I was brewing teas for 95 plants, did I mention lots of work. If using hydro nutes such as dyna grow, it will be much easier but still requires more attention than soil.
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.
Indeed coir is tricky and requires a lot of work. I was brewing teas for 95 plants, did I mention lots of work. If using hydro nutes such as dyna grow, it will be much easier but still requires more attention than soil.
Being in Southern Australia, its about time to start potting up my Chillies and I've been considering the peat vs coir choice for an additive into my potting mix to retain moisture.
I stumbled on this report in Google searches. Now to be fair to Coir, this is a "Soiless" test and doesn't consider mixing Coir with soil, but I find the results interesting all the same.
https://cpl.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/pub__9468201.pdf(The report is from the Utah State University)
I don't think I will be using Coir anytime soon in my growing mediums.
Luke
I stumbled on this report in Google searches. Now to be fair to Coir, this is a "Soiless" test and doesn't consider mixing Coir with soil, but I find the results interesting all the same.
https://cpl.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/pub__9468201.pdf(The report is from the Utah State University)
I don't think I will be using Coir anytime soon in my growing mediums.
Luke
I've seen that article. I've even posted it before I had some understanding of coco. It is now an old bit of research given the most recent piece of literature cited is from 2004. The use of dolomitic lime is not recommended with coco. The authors had given some fertilizer to the plants, but there is a difference between fertilizer and ferts designed for coco.eLuke455 said:
I found this out when I had given soil fertilizer to plants in coco. The plants in peat based potting soil did way better than the ones in coco. Having now grown in both coco and peat, and having used proper coco nutrients, I can tell you that coco has out performed peat by a large margin under my circumstances. There are a few rules to follow when growing in coir, none of which were followed in the article you posted.
Neil
Not sure what brand coco that growers use in other countries, but in Oz we are lucky to have good quality and cheap coco readily available (at Bunnings and Masters). I'm using Brunnings 'coir-power' blocks. These are $17 and make up to 90L/24gal and have a nice medium grit size with barely any fines and definitely no salt! It's about 1/2 fibres and 1/2 'spongy bits' around the 2-5mm size.eLuke455 said:
This is my mix:
46% coco coir
23% potting mix (Searls premium)
18% perlite
13% manure
I love this mix, it's so fluffy and light and really holds onto water well. I water once every 1-2 weeks but will water more when the weather gets super hot. I'm using 5gal pots atm.
As for seedlings I water, then gently squeeze the cup to push out excess water otherwise you will still get soggy roots that will kill seedlings, I lost about four but none since squeezing out the extra water. But only need to water once a week if that. Coco can be great but does require a bit of trial and error.
I have been using Coco Rhiza XL brick 70L with good results. (its abit coarse)
I tried mixing it with perlite in the beginning but it holds too much water. Then i tried mixing it with watercrystals (
dont ask why, i just like experiementing)
The watercrystal did seem to hold alot of water so the coir didnt dry out as fast and it seemed to prevent it getting soggy and cause root rot, had no truble starting seeds in it and its so easy to see when they want water as the pot feels light and the coir starts to go ligh brown....
now im mixing the coir with potting soil and im not sure i like that yet..... feels abit too compact atm so might have to go from 50/50 to higher % of coir and i cant see with the naked eye if they want water nor does it feel light as before.
My biggest problem with coir is that im so bad at remembering to nute at every watering and that can stunt my plants
I tried mixing it with perlite in the beginning but it holds too much water. Then i tried mixing it with watercrystals (
dont ask why, i just like experiementing)The watercrystal did seem to hold alot of water so the coir didnt dry out as fast and it seemed to prevent it getting soggy and cause root rot, had no truble starting seeds in it and its so easy to see when they want water as the pot feels light and the coir starts to go ligh brown....
now im mixing the coir with potting soil and im not sure i like that yet..... feels abit too compact atm so might have to go from 50/50 to higher % of coir and i cant see with the naked eye if they want water nor does it feel light as before.
My biggest problem with coir is that im so bad at remembering to nute at every watering and that can stunt my plants
Yes, still have a few mature plants with coco only, they tend to need watering more often than the ones with crystals in them.
But have to add that coco only in pots with no drainage holes are perfect (where given 3 nicelooking pots with no draining and had no root rot on the peppers i kept in them)
But have to add that coco only in pots with no drainage holes are perfect (where given 3 nicelooking pots with no draining and had no root rot on the peppers i kept in them)
I have used coco/compost in a 50/50 mix for germination and growing seedlings with great success and would recommend it.
Coco for lightness and water retention and compost for nutrients .
BUT ,
my compost is home made goodness .
All garden cuttings . leaves and lawn mowings go in , with the occasional horse manure.
The volume reduction over 2 years is about 4 to 1.
In other words about 4 cubic feet of raw plant matter turns into 1 cubic foot of compost .
So you get a lot of consentrated organic nutrients lightened by the coco.
Coco for lightness and water retention and compost for nutrients .
BUT ,
my compost is home made goodness .
All garden cuttings . leaves and lawn mowings go in , with the occasional horse manure.
The volume reduction over 2 years is about 4 to 1.
In other words about 4 cubic feet of raw plant matter turns into 1 cubic foot of compost .
So you get a lot of consentrated organic nutrients lightened by the coco.
Ah, the old operator fail = product fail formula. Always a gooder. Each medium has unique characteristics that must be taken into account.
Bricks should almost always be flushed and buffered (some give up the practice after frequent EC testing). Hot bricks are more common than hot bags but stray reports of both still pop up from time to time.
Bricks should almost always be flushed and buffered (some give up the practice after frequent EC testing). Hot bricks are more common than hot bags but stray reports of both still pop up from time to time.
Perhaps one of the easiest ways to get started with coco is to use a quality coir from a hydro shop and greatfullh3ads General hydroponics formula:eLuke455 said:
- 4l/1 gallon of RO water
- 6ml Micro
- 9ml Bloom
You will need to ph it. This mixture ratio produces around 700ppm. It can be used start to finish and takes all the guesswork out of nutrient solutions. It's also extremely affordable, and readily available. The downside is that General Hydroponics is now owned by Monsanto.
I've documented my experience with a few nutrient lines last year. Check it out at:
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/43839-blisters-led-coco-grow-has-reached-its-inevitable-end/?fromsearch=1
Neil
Folks, if you have proper drainage and an appropriate pH level then everything WILL work fine unless you starve the plant of nutrients or the opposite. Criticizing a product without taking these into account is just spreading bad info and does absolutely no good for your fellow gardener. I used the Black Gold Just Coir with tremendous success this year. I used it by itself for a ghost pepper plant and it's still cranking out pods today and I've even stopped feeding it . http://www.amazon.com/Black-Gold-Just-Coir-c-f/dp/B008PGGA14 I got it for significantly cheaper than that from my grow shop...