• If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.

container Container growing frustrations

highalt

highalt

We had a lot of strong winds at the beginning of the season, and initially the plants in the ground, both here and at the community garden lost a lot of their leaves, and just looked horrible. Meanwhile the peppers I put in the Earthboxes and in pots were doing great, put on new growth, started blooming and developing pods. Well, now there seems to be a role reversal going on. The plants in the ground are taking off, getting huge, looking great with lots of pods developing. The container plants look horrible.

This is my fourth year to use Earthboxes, and I've never had any problems before, but I didn't buy their growing medium this year, and even though I though I added a good bit of perlite to the potting mix I purchased, the soil is retaining too much water. In previous years, the reservoir would go completely dry every couple days in the summer, and had to be watered almost daily towards the end of the season. This year, I've had to quit watering it at all, because the soil is staying so wet. I'm wondering if I should just remove the black plastic covers.

I also have quite a few peppers in various types of pots, with no plastic cover on them. They aren't fairing any better though. One minute the soil is so wet the leaves are turning yellow and falling off, the next the soil is so dry the plant is wilting. I've heard lots of people on this forum talk about how much they like growing in containers, but my in ground plants are pretty much maintenance free. The veggie garden is irrigated and on a timer. I do have to water at the community garden when we don't have any rain, but even with the other tenants sometimes watering my area when they water theirs, I haven't seen any signs of the plants getting too much water.

Up to now, I've just stuck the container plants in whatever potting mix I had on hand, and maybe gave it some organic liquid fertilizer 2 or 3 times throughout the season, and things grew just fine. I've never had peppers plants dropping leaves, and buds left and right like I am this year. Can't help but wonder why this year is different, and what I'm going wrong? Container growing isn't supposed to be complicated and high maintenance is it?
 
I can definitley feel your pain. I had the same drainage issues at the beginning of the season and I just pulled my peppers out of the plot and potted them up. Now my tomato plants are 6 feet tall and my peppers (although thankfully fruiting) are not as large as I had hoped. I find that the containers are higher maintenance than the beds, however I can control the medium better. You can look at guys like AJ who have tremendous results with containers and ground and see that both methods work. I would just say that in the continers I find I have to micromanage much more (water and feed 3 or 4 plants one day and 7 the next). Hang in there.
 
My container plants usually start faster and look more promising than my garden plants, but the garden ones always seem to take off and pass them up.
Since you've had good luck with Earthboxes for the previous 3 years, and the only known variable is the growing medium, I would think that is the culprit.
A friend of mine is using the global buckets this year and they are working great. He made his own mix for cheap from the recipe on the global bucket site:
70% sphagnum peat
20% vermiculite
10% perlite

I know it's probably not possible to change the potting mix this late in the game so removing the plastic sounds like a good plan for now.
Good luck!
 
highalt said:
We had a lot of strong winds at the beginning of the season, and initially the plants in the ground, both here and at the community garden lost a lot of their leaves, and just looked horrible. Meanwhile the peppers I put in the Earthboxes and in pots were doing great, put on new growth, started blooming and developing pods. Well, now there seems to be a role reversal going on. The plants in the ground are taking off, getting huge, looking great with lots of pods developing. The container plants look horrible.

This is my fourth year to use Earthboxes, and I've never had any problems before, but I didn't buy their growing medium this year, and even though I though I added a good bit of perlite to the potting mix I purchased, the soil is retaining too much water. In previous years, the reservoir would go completely dry every couple days in the summer, and had to be watered almost daily towards the end of the season. This year, I've had to quit watering it at all, because the soil is staying so wet. I'm wondering if I should just remove the black plastic covers.

I also have quite a few peppers in various types of pots, with no plastic cover on them. They aren't fairing any better though. One minute the soil is so wet the leaves are turning yellow and falling off, the next the soil is so dry the plant is wilting. I've heard lots of people on this forum talk about how much they like growing in containers, but my in ground plants are pretty much maintenance free. The veggie garden is irrigated and on a timer. I do have to water at the community garden when we don't have any rain, but even with the other tenants sometimes watering my area when they water theirs, I haven't seen any signs of the plants getting too much water.

Up to now, I've just stuck the container plants in whatever potting mix I had on hand, and maybe gave it some organic liquid fertilizer 2 or 3 times throughout the season, and things grew just fine. I've never had peppers plants dropping leaves, and buds left and right like I am this year. Can't help but wonder why this year is different, and what I'm going wrong? Container growing isn't supposed to be complicated and high maintenance is it?
Click to expand...


MGOLD86 said:
I can definitley feel your pain. I had the same drainage issues at the beginning of the season and I just pulled my peppers out of the plot and potted them up. Now my tomato plants are 6 feet tall and my peppers (although thankfully fruiting) are not as large as I had hoped. I find that the containers are higher maintenance than the beds, however I can control the medium better. You can look at guys like AJ who have tremendous results with containers and ground and see that both methods work. I would just say that in the continers I find I have to micromanage much more (water and feed 3 or 4 plants one day and 7 the next). Hang in there.
Click to expand...


muskymojo said:
My container plants usually start faster and look more promising than my garden plants, but the garden ones always seem to take off and pass them up.
Since you've had good luck with Earthboxes for the previous 3 years, and the only known variable is the growing medium, I would think that is the culprit.
A friend of mine is using the global buckets this year and they are working great. He made his own mix for cheap from the recipe on the global bucket site:
70% sphagnum peat
20% vermiculite
10% perlite

I know it's probably not possible to change the potting mix this late in the game so removing the plastic sounds like a good plan for now.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
The trick here, beyond container size, is the soil mix fellas. With poor drainage and air exchange the roots won't function at their optimal state. The reasons why your container plants always "appear" more promising than those in the garden is directly related to the fact that most of the time, you all are using a super airy, neutral, soil-less medium. Where as, in the garden, its natural top soil. The thing to note here is as well, the reason why your gardens end up out doing your containers....root limitations. Besides possible nutrient deficiencies, in the ground there are no root limitations. In plastic/clay/wood containers the plant is only going to get so big before it becomes root bound. Now there are containers that prevent this and even go beyond by air pruning your roots systems, making them more fibrous, in turn "giving" the plants bigger "mouths" to eat with. Another thing to note is that with container gardening, over time your medium can become compacted, needing to be aerated, much like the garden when you till it.

Lots of answers to these types of issues, but the main two are soil structure and size.
 
This is my first year of growing any peppers, so I can't offer much advice just my 2 cents. All of my peppers are in 5 gallon Lowe's buckets (7 pot, Bhuts, Habs, Naga's, and Scorps, plus a few "regular" peppers, cayennes, jalapenos, serrano.) I don't have room to do an in ground garden so containers were my only choice. I've found that containers do seem to take more micro managing compared to in ground plants, just from what I've read. I got my plants from CCN and had to pot up to 1 gallon nursery pots and then up to 5 gallon buckets and I too have the same problem with watering. I use Farfard's potting mix, which is supposed to be a pretty decent mix from recommendations here, but one day I will have to water one plant and the next water 4 just like others have stated. My plants are doing good and producing fruit though I have had to battle leaf drop and the such just cause its been close to 100F here for like 3 weeks.
 
Yea, they are all in the same soil and get the same sun exposure (being from Atlanta I'm sure you know this summer sun can be awful). My one complaint about Farfard's is that it is such a light mixture that after the first few waterings I will have to add more mixture to the buckets because the water just causes the Farfard's to just sink and compact
 
I agree that the most likely suspect is the growing medium. The problem is that I live in a very small town and don't have many options. No Fafard's, or Pro-Mix within 75 miles of here. It's either Miracle Grow, or the Walmart brand, or very expensive bags of Black Gold (apparently there must actually be gold in those bags!) I have seen bales of spaghnum peat moss, and perlite, but the vermiculite would be difficult to find locally. I may have to order stuff online, but the shipping costs can be ridiculous at some of the online stores. I definitely need to come up with a plan before next year's growing season!

Pepper Guru, I understand what you are saying about root space, but at the end of the season when I empty out the Earthboxes, there appears to still be some growing room left in there, though that might be the case with some of my plants that are in smaller pots.

Not saying that this is the cause of my problems, but we are having much more rain and humidity than what is typical for this time of year. The weather here is usually hot and dry all summer, very desert-like, but this year the monsoon weather pattern has arrived early. A couple of weeks ago, we had six days in a row with measurable precipitation. That's about the time I noticed the container plants not looking so good ...
 
Really? The dude is using ProMix and ya'll are blaming the SOIL? Come on now, pay attention! I am using EXCLUSIVELY ProMix this year and my plants are big, bushy, and have TONS of pods and flowers. Your issue is NOT soil. Make sure you have good drainage from your container(s) and keep them decently watered. You also have to make sure you feed them accordingly because there are few nutrients in ProMix. Some people may feel that is a BAD thing. I personally PREFER it because I alone can control what they intake.
Heat can also contribute to leaf/flower drop. If you are feeding your plants regularly (I feed once a week), containers are well-drained, and are watered regularly, you should have no problems. If you are STILL having the same issues, and your temps are high, find a way to keep them a little cooler. Maybe try a shade cloth.
 
Um .... Hot Pooper, I am a dudette, not a dude, and I am not using Pro Mix (see post above). :lol:


BTW, I changed my profile, so that my gender is no longer in question. ;)
 
highalt said:
Um .... Hot Pooper, I am a dudette, not a dude, and I am not using Pro Mix (see post above). :lol:
Click to expand...


muskymojo said:
:lol:
Click to expand...

Yes. And also read my entire reply. Soil "state" is not the same as soil make up. If you read more carefully than you had, you would have noted that I was praising soiless mediums and attributing the "early" growth success to it solely. Simply put, over a season your garden soil will remain more stable and thus the reason for late stage success there. SO in conclusion, the trick is to figure out how to combine the great early growth in super light airy soiless mixes, with the long term stability of garden soil. If the grower refrains from allowing pro mix "style" mediums in containers to compact and become spent (nutritiously speaking) then the only limitation is container type and size :) There seems to be a lot of mis informed growers out there...but I'll get to the bottom of it soon :)
 
Aaaaah, I see your point now, Pepper Guru! I've tried to search the forums here for some kind of guidelines regarding fertilizing peppers, but can't seem to locate the information.

As a mostly in-ground gardener, I have always just added compost to the veggie bed each year, and used some bone meal and/or fish emulsion mid season, but never really concerned myself with feeding the plants on any kind of schedule. I usually end up with a nice harvest, barring some freak of nature, or animals helping themselves, etc.

When I purchased my Earthboxes, they came with everything that was needed for a season, and I didn't add anything else. I didn't buy there refill kits this year (trying to cut costs), so this is my first year to have to "feed" my plants. I've been worried about overdoing it, but maybe I'm not doing enough? Any advice is welcomed.
 
I've never done an "earth box" but I assume its just a raised bed or planter that comes with their proprietary soil and food? I would just add compost, perlite, and maybe some soil from the garden if you like it enough. Try to shoot for around a 30% perlite or preferred aerator. You should be fine otherwise bc it sounds as if you already add lime, bone and blood, etc etc If you're going the organic route (which i recommend) then you will want to look into how to brew up some teas and also look into quanos/emulsions :)
 
Ray Newstead of homemade Earthtainer fame recommends 6 scoops of Growing Media to 1 scoop of Perlite.

Recommended growing media being Sunshine #4 Mix or Premier Pro-Mix BX.

Further info can be found here: http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/ and http://www.earthtainer.org/

For general purpose fertilizer I use Steve Solomon's Organic fertilizer Recipe.....

"Mix uniformly, in parts by volume:
4 parts seed meal
1/4 part ordinary agricultural lime, best finely ground
1/4 part gypsum (or double the agricultural lime)
1/2 part dolomitic lime

Plus, for best results:
1 part bone meal, rock phosphate or high-phosphate guano
1/2 to 1 part kelp meal (or 1 part basalt dust)"


More info available here:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/2006-06-01/A-Better-Way-to-Fertilize-Your-Garden.aspx

smile1.gif
 
DiggingDogFarm said:
Ray Newstead recommends 6 scoops of Growing Media to 1 scoop of Perlite.
Click to expand...
Technically speaking, perlite is, in and of itself, a "growing media". Realistically, you could grow out of 100% perlite or vermiculite. I wouldn't recommend it due to how much you'll be watering and feeding. Essentially, it would be a hydro grow, but then again any soiless medium is a hydro grow...lol I'd be interested in what Ray means by "growing media"; does his "definition" include vermiculite, peat, compost, etc? Either way 1part aerator (perlite) to 6 parts (non aerator) seems way shy of a good ratio. Seriously, all you "pro mix" band wagoners just look at what ya got in the bag. Reach your hand down pick up a handful and see for yourself. Upon examination, Im sure you'll find that the ratio is closer to 1/3. :cool:

edit: something else to note interesting: at 50+ views I noticed this thread had gone without reply. With such an easy question to answer I thought, "damn, is anyone gonna answer the op?" After getting in, two members had replied with their similar worries, which was cool but the "automatic speculation of a sound solution" from other members is what gets me...lol! All I can say is this: If you hold the opinion that "pro mix" will save you from really learning how to grow, that is unfortunate. There are many other factors involved with knowing your plants' and soils' state. Im here to share good, true, sound information. I've been at this game since I was 10 years old. I grow ALL types of plants QUITE successfully. If I post it, take it to the bank :)
 
Pepper-Guru said:
Technically speaking, perlite is, in and of itself, a "growing media". Realistically, you could grow out of 100% perlite or vermiculite. I wouldn't recommend it due to how much you'll be watering and feeding. Essentially, it would be a hydro grow, but then again any soiless medium is a hydro grow...lol I'd be interested in what Ray means by "growing media"; does his "definition" include vermiculite, peat, compost, etc? Either way 1part aerator (perlite) to 6 parts (non aerator) seems way shy of a good ratio. Seriously, all you "pro mix" band wagoners just look at what ya got in the bag. Reach your hand down pick up a handful and see for yourself. Upon examination, Im sure you'll find that the ratio is closer to 1/3. :cool:
Click to expand...

As I stated above, Ray's recommended 'growing media' is either Sunshine #4 Mix or Premier Pro-Mix BX.
I probably should have just said 6 parts Sunshine #4 Mix or Premier Pro-Mix BX to 1 part perlite to avoid confusion and argument.
smile1.gif


As far as the ratio goes, it appears to work just fine to wick water properly yet maintain aeration.

smile1.gif
 
DiggingDogFarm said:
Ray Newstead of homemade Earthtainer fame recommends 6 scoops of Growing Media to 1 scoop of Perlite.

Recommended growing media being Sunshine #4 Mix or Premier Pro-Mix BX.

Further info can be found here: http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/ and http://www.earthtainer.org/

For general purpose fertilizer I use Steve Solomon's Organic fertilizer Recipe.....

"Mix uniformly, in parts by volume:
4 parts seed meal
1/4 part ordinary agricultural lime, best finely ground
1/4 part gypsum (or double the agricultural lime)
1/2 part dolomitic lime

Plus, for best results:
1 part bone meal, rock phosphate or high-phosphate guano
1/2 to 1 part kelp meal (or 1 part basalt dust)"


More info available here:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/2006-06-01/A-Better-Way-to-Fertilize-Your-Garden.aspx

smile1.gif
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information! Have a couple of questions though. What is seed meal? I buy 50 lb. bags of soybean meal or corn gluten meal to use as organic fertilizer for my lawn. Is that what he is referring to? My local garden centers carry bone meal and blood meal, but I have never seen the other items, such as dolomitic lime, or gypsum, or kelp meal, or basalt dust. Do you order this stuff online? Doesn't the shipping cost make it cost prohibitive?

Interestingly, I live about 45 miles from both the towns of Gypsum and Basalt, so you'd think those items would be readily available around here. :think:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top