co-packer COPACKER--------MAYBE

Dyce51

Dyce51

I FOUND A LOCAL COPAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now we need to talk and see whats what and find out cost and everything else. Knd of scary though, the smallest batch is 250 gallons.....(so 250 gallons X 128 oz. = 32000oz / 5oz woozies = 6400 5 oz bottles of hot sauce :eek: :surprised: :crazy: THATS ALOT OF BOTTLES!!!!!!!!!) or if its my BBQ sauce.....thats 2000 16oz bottles of BBQ Sauce!!!!
 
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yes, that is a LOT!


Do you have your recipe dialed in? Down to the Gram?

There should be some way to do a test batch with the co-packer. I've never used one, I'm just going off of 3rd party info for that. 250 gallons is a lot to gamble if you don't know they can do your recipe.
 
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I've been struggling with the same thing but for now, I'm off the idea of co-packers. Granted they do take over all the regulatory issues but they also take out the part of the process I enjoy the most. . . . . .growing. I believe Endorphin Farms was able to accommodate smaller batches.
 
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Yeah Dan I am with you. I need to find one I can bring my peppers to.

I heard rumors of Lowenstein Co-packing Inc., but I am not sure if they are getting off the ground or is that was just a rumor. :silenced:
 
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Oh yeah......they do make a small test batch to make sure they can reproduce my flavor and then once I approve it they make the big batch. My recipes are dialed in. I have been making the same sauces (Hot and BBQ) for most my life. I have won a few awards over the years with them and am not willing to change or alter the flavor of them (when its good, and you have a following why change it) I'm am going to go talk to them and at least find out the cost.

I have talked to many bars, party centers, caterers, restaurants about renting their kitchens for 1 or 2 days a month to produce my own small batches. I keep getting the same answer......."Our Insurance won't allow it", or my favorite answer so far is..."You want to have the FDA inspect my place? Oh hell NO, it's bad enough the Health Dept comes in and cites me every now and then" (needless to say I won't eat there again!!)

My goal is to produce and sell my own sauces...use part of the profits to start my own commercial kitchen here in Brunswick and allow other people in the area (and I have met several) who have their own product get started at an affordable price...along with supplying a kitchen, I want a retail area where I can sell my products, their products and other small business's products. Kind of like a small business incubator.
 
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I was lucky in the fact there is a commercial kitchen that I can rent only about 20 miles away. Granted it is a pain in the arse to drive there to do my processing but that's the price of business I guess. Good on ya' for trying to help the little guy out!!!
 
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Right now I am the little guy trying to start out.......almost did it a couple of times but was unsuccessful hopefully this time it will work out. 20 miles isn't too bad....I was thinking about signing up with ACEnet (a commercial kitchen/incubator) down in Athens, Ohio.....Brunswick (where I live) is 26 miles south of Cleveland, Athens is about 195 miles south of me for a 3.5 - 4 hour drive.
 
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Dyce51, it sounds like the people/places you talked to about using their kitchen need a little more information. I doubt they even asked their insurer, but even if they did, you would carry your own insurance and add the business as an "Additional Insured" to the policy. It's a common practice. Happens all the time in the construction industry, and i've seen on some festival applications that they require the vendor to add the festival as an "additional insured".

And the FDA does not need to inspect the place. You would most likely be licensed under your city, county or state health authority, depending on where the kitchen is located and what your state regs are for wholesaling-vs-retailing. The FDA has nothing to do with small processors like us until you get really big. In fact, you don't need a nutrition panel on your label (as long as you're not claiming things like Low Calorie, Fat Free, Low Sodium etc) as long as you're making/selling less than 20,000 units a year.

Where I live, if I'm only wholesaling, I get licensed through Washington State Department of Agriculture. If I'm only retailing, I get licensed through the county health district, the same people who inspect restaurants and stores. If I both retail and wholesale, I have to get licensed from BOTH agencies. (what a crock!) That's pretty much why I only wholesale, cuz the county ticked me off and I refuse to buy another license. It wouldn't be so bad if all the counties required county health permits, but that's not the case. Every other county in the state accepts the state license to allow retailing, only our county requires a county permit to retail. :crazy:

Anyway, good luck with your search. You'll find something that will work.
edit- look at places like grange hall, fraternal lodges (Eagles, elks, masonic, etc) maybe churches or private schools???
SL
 
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couple of thoughts:

1. there are smaller co-packers who offer smaller batch sizes
2. make sure there's a production chef who is willing to mentor/help you with scaling your recipes. A test batch is still a crap-pile of sauce. Things like salt do not scale equally - if the co-packer isn't experienced/invested, they may simply scale your recipes out regardless of the impact on the larger batch. For example, my final products have about 60% the sodium of a 2 gallon batch. We started with 50% and increased by taste from there. You can always put more in - you cannot take it out.

Just food for thought (pun intended :woohoo: )

good luck!
 
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Incubator kitchens are different than co-packers. Usually, incubators are similar to shared-use kitchen in that the users do their own processing. Users can use what equipment is available in the kitchen, but if they need something specific, they are responsible to get it themselves. Often times incubators have people associated with the facility that can help new business people to "jump through all the hoops", but it's up to the individual processor to actually do the jumping. That's the "incubation" part of the operations.


A co-packer will jump through (most) of the hoops for the individual, and the individual can walk out of the processing facility with cases of product and they don't do the actual work of cooking the sauce and putting it in the bottle. It's totally different operations, and both are HUGE resources to know about.

Thanks for sharing that link, IM. It probably deserves it's own post, so I'm going to start another thread with that link and credit to IM.
 
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Dyce51, not sure if you figured this all out yet, but you may want to check churches and VFWs. My friend is making his salsa at the Methodist church 1/2 mile away for $50/day. Also, some co-packers offer a small first batch. For instance Original Juan's offers a 60-gallon first run and then you must do 180 gal. Here in St. Louis King Foods offers an 80-gallon first run and then you must do 220 gal. The first run is not the initial runs used to come to an agreed-upon product.

Also, I know Endorphin Farms will allow 1/2 batches on similar recipes. So if the only dif. between 2 sauces is the addition of a couple ingredients, you can do one 300 case batch and get 150 cases of each.
 
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In my experience (all of 3 co-packers) all were willing to mix & match if similar recipes to meet production minimums. .

Regarding church kitchens, I'd be very weary of the legality there - shared kitchens must be added to your liability insurance, and they must be licensed & inspected. A church kitchen is not necessarily a commercial kitchen - for a bake sale that's not an issue. For a hot packed acidified product it could be a massive issue.
 
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