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breeding Creating crosses

nice I am glad this popped up, I wanted to try to get some different crosses this year, Want to try to mix some Bulgarian Carrots with a Tepin maybe, and then some of the superhots with the chocolate habs, too bad it takes so long, but can't wait. will be reading more about this

and also if the F1 is stable, it should produce seeds right, if it's not stable, what.. will it either not produce pods or pods w/o seeds?
 
F1s will all grow the same and will produce seed, but I don't know if stable is the right term. The f2s on will be unstable(not true breeding) and every plant will be different until they are stabalized over several years.
 
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/vegetables/seed.html

One of the biggest problems is being able to get through several generations keeping only the traits you like. Often as you get farther down in the process you start getting some undesirable recessive traits that creep in. So sometimes you can produce fairly consistent results to second or third generations but then start getting some radicals appearing in following generations. The best way to produce consistently is to ensure isolation and have a large enough group of plants to choose from. Once you get a couple plants that produce good consistent seeds then you clone and collect. Sounds fun...but time consuming. I did some cross pollination experiments in HS during AG class and it was fun. You can see results after just one season. (not always the result you were looking for) Never did it for consistency though. Sounds fun with a potential payday in the end...or at least bragging rights for having the biggest peter peppers in the neighborhood!
 
I find it hardest to get throught he f2 and f3 stages, After that I don't need to grow nearly as many plants since the gene diversity is already narrowed down quite a bit. You still would want to grow a lot of plants though. I usually like to start with 50-100+ plants for f2s and f3s and about 20-25+ for f4s to f7 (or whenever stable)
 
hmm, well to start off with I'm just looking for anything that is different when crossing the 2 plants, (going to try a bunch of different crosses to see how they come out).. not really have any goals as far as what I want the pods to look like, like I said, anything unique/different would be cool, as long as I could keep them going and they would produce some cool pods.. at least to start off with, then probabley next year I will start picking traits that I want from whatever I created.. but for my purpuses at least, shoud I be ok to just cross 2 plants and if I like them I can keep them as mother plants and play with those seeds after that right?
 
With 1 or 2 plants the odds are not in your favor to have an improvement or more desirable cross, but you may always get lucky.
 
Seems I can find everything but what I'm looking for. I can at least try to explain my reasoning behind saying that once a flower has been pollinated it won't accept pollen from a different source. When pollen is first applied to the stigma it germinates and grows a pollen tube down into the ovule where it fertilizes the ova. Once it's been fertilized it begins to develop into seeds and fruit. Be hard to fertilize it again. Sorry for not being able to find proof.
 
i thought it had to be flowered to pollinat??? i only say that cause i watch bees and wasps on the flowers of all kinds of fruits and vegies.
 
I was never positive but I always thought 1 grain of pollen produced 1 seed and that there could be multiple fathers. I know some deformed pods are caused by only being partially pollinated which would suggest thats its not "all or nothing"
Its also always suggested to remove all other flowers and isolate plant when performing a cross
 
i believe only one father takes?? im not promising any of this. but i do know when you polly manually you can usually hit two females with one draw from male. but ive never did it with peppers and only witnessed it with pumpkins
 
EDIT: never mind, was way off on where you were going, was just thinking about most plants that I know of can only accept 1 parent to make 1 fruit/pod/emboryo.

hmm can't seem to delete the post? am I missing it, or can you not delete your posts
 
POTAWIE not sure if this helps but some plants, don't know if peppers are one of them, have multiple ova's in a single ovule so it would take multiple grains of pollen to completely fertilize them.
 
Potawie is right: in theory every seed in a pod could be completely different. Every seed is the result of the union of 1 pollen grain and 1 ovule . 1 fertilization event.

depending on the genetic makeup of the parents, every seed could be different. it would also be theoretically possible to have different pollen parents contribute pollen to the same pod.

So you could have a bhut father, a hab father, etc cross with one mother. probably not very likely, but in theory possible.

only if you have parents that are highly homozygous will all of the seeds in a pod be the same (or similar, actually)

I am excited about all of the breeding projects we have starting up all of the sudden. Keep it up and keep us posted!
 
oh ok, gotcha, well in that case, I will just keep mixing and matching and creating crosses until I get a pod that I like, then take it and germinate all it's seeds and see which one I like out of that.. hopefully by the begining of the summer/spring I should have some pods coming out, and be able to get a few crossed pods, and if I like some I will just grow those seeds this summer just to get some pods and see if any come out cool from the F1 generations, and give the others away or something since I will have a bunch of other peppers I'm over wintering already..should be cool to see what comes out for everyone this summer
 
In theory you only really need to grow 1 f1 plant since they should all grow the same. Its the f2 and f3 stages+ where you really need to grow out a lot of plants and choose most desirable plants/pods for further inbreeding/stabalizing. Quite often the f1s can be quite boring and dissapointing but just wait and grow lots of f2s to get some diversity
 
Maxsack331 said:
oh ok, gotcha, well in that case, I will just keep mixing and matching and creating crosses until I get a pod that I like, then take it and germinate all it's seeds and see which one I like out of that.. hopefully by the begining of the summer/spring I should have some pods coming out, and be able to get a few crossed pods, and if I like some I will just grow those seeds this summer just to get some pods and see if any come out cool from the F1 generations, and give the others away or something since I will have a bunch of other peppers I'm over wintering already..should be cool to see what comes out for everyone this summer
Click to expand...

Yeah...as long as you realize that you won't "see" any difference in the pods from the crosses this Summer. The only differences in them will be inside the genetics of the seeds and in order to "see" the results of your cross you will have to grow the crossed seeds. Unless there is a noticeable difference in foliage between the parents you would have to wait for flowers and fruit to notice any changes.
 
ooh, ok, well that is good to know, I would have been pretty frusturated this summer thinking that I was pollinating them all wrong or something, but I guess I will just create a bunch of crosses and save the pods and go from there, no wonder people don't do this more often, but should be rewarding in the end ..

thanks
 
The F1 generation will only be the same if the parents are true-breeding (homozygous). If you cross 2 F1 hybrids or an F1 with a true breeding variety you can get lots of variety in the "F1" from that cross.

maybe its only really considered an F1 generation if the parents are both true-breeding?

anyway, here is a link I have posted before that simplifies the procedure for stabilizing a cross.... maybe its over-simplified, but its the general idea. you can add in back-crossing to one of the parents, etc to fix certain traits you are interested in keeping

http://www.plbr.cornell.edu/psi/Pepper%20Breeding.pdf
 
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