hybrid Crossing Peppers - What are you mixing? Success stories!

coachspencerxc said:
So to those of you with experience in crossing (especially those with 2 species), I would assume you plant a fairly large number of seeds to account for potentially poor germination rates. How many to you try to germinate & how many F2 seedlings do you end up keeping typically? Is it a good idea to try the cross with different fathers & different mothers? Would it matter if the seeds of the each of parent plants are from the same pod? ...that is each mother is from the same pod & each father is from the same pod.
 
Thanks.
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I test them out with 10 or so seeds with different species. I have a c.chinese x c. baccatum that isn't working out for me, so I'm germinating 2 pods worth of seeds. There actually should be no infertility. My c. chinese has some c. annuum in it from a cross done with pimenta de Neyde, but these 3 species should have no issues with fertility. The problem I have is from waiting for the pod to ripen too long, which made the seeds poor. It's hard to tell because the pepper stays purple a very long time like its mother the pimenta de Neyde.
 
It's good idea to make x species the mother and father when crossing it with another species. It can depend on who you make female for fertility. The more you cross, the higher your chances are of being successful. It's really a matter of effort and timing (need both to be flowering at the same time) for how many you do.
 
Dulac said:
 
I test them out with 10 or so seeds with different species. I have a c.chinese x c. baccatum that isn't working out for me, so I'm germinating 2 pods worth of seeds. There actually should be no infertility. My c. chinese has some c. annuum in it from a cross done with pimenta de Neyde, but these 3 species should have no issues with fertility. The problem I have is from waiting for the pod to ripen too long, which made the seeds poor. It's hard to tell because the pepper stays purple a very long time like its mother the pimenta de Neyde.
 
It's good idea to make x species the mother and father when crossing it with another species. It can depend on who you make female for fertility. The more you cross, the higher your chances are of being successful. It's really a matter of effort and timing (need both to be flowering at the same time) for how many you do.
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Thanks. Great answer.
 
I guess you could have an isolated greenhouse house aera have the plants you want to cross and order one of those beneficial bumble be kits I seen on a site or have a honey be hive fix in there something like that butterflies like painted ladies etc a lot of effort and money with no guarantees but would be interesting to see a setup like that
 
It depends on a lot of things.. If your looking for germination amount and nothing else and you want 4-5 plants as an example I would always plant at least 10+ seeds .. However if your looking for those particular traits that offer you something wonderful... Eg. with above example a Bhut x Cayenne, you might want.. (In the F2 plants)
 
Heat of Bhut
Look of Bhut
Taste of Cayenne
Colour of Cayenne
 
This would in theory take about 16 plants to get 1 that will have those traits... And with possible germination issues you may want to plant 30+ seeds.. All being said this is based on pure mathematical prediction, you could plant one seed and get exactly what you want lol ..  So to answer that question until you get to "pod" time you probably wont know if you have what you want, might take 3 plants might take 200...
 
It shouldn't matter if the seeds are from the same plant or pod, it all comes down to that moment of genetic codes joining and that random Dominant / recessive selection... That being said if you find traits you like in a particular plant it would be in your interest to inbreed that plant to maximise the continuation of the traits, crossing the same plants (grown from a single pod) as an example will also help to continue certain traits and will probably have a similar effect to inbreeding although that pod could have a new genetic code added to it ( could be an inbred parent or a new parent introduction).
 
That being said the further into the F's you get the more recessives get knocked out of the Gene pool and the more repetitive certain traits will become ( and this is how stabilization occurs) of a cross. F2-F3-F4 will probably contain multiple random traits, and by F6-F7-F8-F9 all those dominants will begin to show in each new generation and recessives may all together disappear.
 
SO to answer your original question, as I am chasing certain traits in plants I will be growing a minimum of 6-10 plants of each cross to give me a reasonable variance, however if I don't find certain traits I really want at all I will probably get rid of the stock and start again next season and focus on other crosses until they grow again.  
 
KrakenPeppers said:
It depends on a lot of things.. If your looking for germination amount and nothing else and you want 4-5 plants as an example I would always plant at least 10+ seeds .. However if your looking for those particular traits that offer you something wonderful... Eg. with above example a Bhut x Cayenne, you might want.. (In the F2 plants)
 
Heat of Bhut
Look of Bhut
Taste of Cayenne
Colour of Cayenne
 
This would in theory take about 16 plants to get 1 that will have those traits... And with possible germination issues you may want to plant 30+ seeds.. All being said this is based on pure mathematical prediction, you could plant one seed and get exactly what you want lol ..  So to answer that question until you get to "pod" time you probably wont know if you have what you want, might take 3 plants might take 200...
 
It shouldn't matter if the seeds are from the same plant or pod, it all comes down to that moment of genetic codes joining and that random Dominant / recessive selection... That being said if you find traits you like in a particular plant it would be in your interest to inbreed that plant to maximise the continuation of the traits, crossing the same plants (grown from a single pod) as an example will also help to continue certain traits and will probably have a similar effect to inbreeding although that pod could have a new genetic code added to it ( could be an inbred parent or a new parent introduction).
 
That being said the further into the F's you get the more recessives get knocked out of the Gene pool and the more repetitive certain traits will become ( and this is how stabilization occurs) of a cross. F2-F3-F4 will probably contain multiple random traits, and by F6-F7-F8-F9 all those dominants will begin to show in each new generation and recessives may all together disappear.
 
SO to answer your original question, as I am chasing certain traits in plants I will be growing a minimum of 6-10 plants of each cross to give me a reasonable variance, however if I don't find certain traits I really want at all I will probably get rid of the stock and start again next season and focus on other crosses until they grow again.  
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Very helpful. Thanks!
 
It all becomes a bit confusing, but you learn things like Red is Dominant over other colours etc.. and over time you realise that if you want a Red plants features like a 7 Pod Primo for example but in Habanero chocolate colour.. the initial F1 will be Red as its dominant only.. Then from that F1 you plant 10 seeds and you might be lucky and find 3 of them are chocolate the rest red, and out of those 3 chocolate you like the one with the gnarly pods etc and continue that particular plant on into further F's ..
 
 But there are things outside the control of traits than just one gene.. Eg. Colour might be determined by 3 separate genes.. Chocolate might be a mix of   Red -  Red  - Green    where orange is   Red - Red  - Yellow  .. Once again these are examples and the exact quantity of genes is unknown to me per trait and I'm sure it varies. But thates how colours like Peach / Caramel / Mustard come in to play... A Red and Yellow Pod will not always lead to only Red or Yellow off spring.  
 
I have several F1 Reaper / AZ wild Chiltepins that are growing under lights still.  Flowerring like crazy and only 7" tall and bushy.  The Reaper seed was from PJ's and from what I've read may be suspect but they sure looked like the real thing.  My first cross experiment so we shall see, a hotter Chiltepin is my goal.
 
Fungal diseases and some insect pests seem to plague peppers in my climate. I plant to cross wild chinense strains (they hail from a wildly diversified ecosystem -- there has to be some remarkable resistances to diseases and pests) with early maturing strains to develop a plant that will produce well here. I won't necessarily succeed at establishing a stable strain, since i don't have the grow-space to raise F8 generations of peppers with any decent-sized genetic base... but it could be fun....
 
One point about the wild strains that bothers me is whether the tendency to hold the fruit upright, above the foliage, is going to do just what nature intends -- habituate local birds to eating my crop!

I can't help but wonder if the trait for pendulous fruit (hidden by the foliage) made ancient farmers' crops much more successful, encouraging trends toward agriculture.

Anyone have any input on this? If birds are a hassle for Tepins or other wilds, it might influence the selections to be made for this trait whenever wilds are involved in a hybrid/outcross. On the other hand....

...The upright fruit are more visually appealing in any ornamental/landscape setting, and much easier to pick. It would also be easier for growers to espy fruit afflictions from nutrient deficiency (ie.: calcium deficiency = blossom end rot), fungal/viral diseases, and pests (pepper weevil, cornborer, and Mediterranean fruit fly) with much more warning time. The home hobbyist would have a reasonable chance to notice that first symptom, in time to avert some serious crop failure.

Decisions, decisions... anyone have any input?
 
mikeg said:
One point about the wild strains that bothers me is whether the tendency to hold the fruit upright, above the foliage, is going to do just what nature intends -- habituate local birds to eating my crop!

I can't help but wonder if the trait for pendulous fruit (hidden by the foliage) made ancient farmers' crops much more successful, encouraging trends toward agriculture.

Anyone have any input on this? If birds are a hassle for Tepins or other wilds, it might influence the selections to be made for this trait whenever wilds are involved in a hybrid/outcross. On the other hand....

...The upright fruit are more visually appealing in any ornamental/landscape setting, and much easier to pick. It would also be easier for growers to espy fruit afflictions from nutrient deficiency (ie.: calcium deficiency = blossom end rot), fungal/viral diseases, and pests (pepper weevil, cornborer, and Mediterranean fruit fly) with much more warning time. The home hobbyist would have a reasonable chance to notice that first symptom, in time to avert some serious crop failure.

Decisions, decisions... anyone have any input?
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The only upright I grow are firecrackers and they are multicoloured smallish peppers, not as small as some wilds but if a bird was interested they would have easy access, surely it would also come down to the native bird that has habitualy fed on a particular type of pepper for generations that arnt local in your country or local to you that won't be around to eat them ?

I have never had any birds go after any of my uprights
 
It sounds like upright and prominently displayed fruits might be a problem in South America or places where tepins naturally occur, but this is encouraging news. Also, i wonder about migratory birds that might eat wild peppers in one area finding them in your backyard (or mine).
I'll mention something about this if i encounter anything myself. Your location may be atypical of North America's bird fauna, and a locally common wild shrub, Red Huckleberry, resembles a Tepin pepper in both foliage and fruit. They are eaten by many local birds, and are in fruit just before i'd expect peppers to ripen.
 
Sounds like it could be an issue for you, down here in the deep south of Australia I must admit there are not a lot of birds species around and those that are, are more scavenger / seed eaters and not so much fruit eaters. I always find having my dogs around tends to keep them off the plants too lol ..
 
In any good plant that gets reasonable size your going to have very visible fruit from the side of the plant and the effect on birds surely will be the same as top mounted fruits.

midwestchilehead said:
This season I'm going to work on a peter crossed with a Word Record NuMex Big Jim. Should be interesting...
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Lol what's the result going to be called.... A Johny Holmes ? lol
 
As an update my current podding crosses are..

Red Moruga S x Black Scorpion Tongue
Mutant Peach Bhut x Brazilian Starfish
Firecracker x Red Moruga S
Chocolate Bhut x Brazilian Starfish
7 Pod Barrackapore x Mutant Peach Bhut
Chocolate Habanero x Mutant Peach Bhut

*** the mutant Bhut was meant to be a Peach Bhut Jolokia , however it's pods don't look like bhut's at all and it has flowers with multiple pistols and conjoined flowers etc ... See mutant peach Bhut topic for pics and help me identify a possible variety pods are yet to grow fully and ripen  http://thehotpepper.com/topic/53156-mutant-plants-peach-bhut-jolokia/?hl=mutant
 
My [Bhut Orange Copenhagen x Numex Suave Orange] F1 is currently flowering.
 
Looking forward to tasting how hot it is :D  
I'm trying to make a easy drying pepper with BOC taste and medium heat.
 
You can always buy the original seeds from Bjarne at www.barney.dk
 
I think i have some seeds somewhere, but they are from a "young" generation (maybe F3??) and open pollinated. Bjarne is still selecting the best plants and has an entire greenhouse only for BOC. Besides that he is also just a nice guy to have a beer with  :cheers:
 
It is only about $5 fort the seeds but then there is postage of course.  
 
Speaking of crosses, if anyone has any good nuclear crosses there wiling to share... let me know I would love to get some seeds :mouthonfire: especially anything with Pimenta / Douglah in it but Ill take anything.. Even if its an unknown
 
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