Crumpled/Curled Leaves - Cut or Let Be

[jlacosta]

I had a case of aphids a few weeks back and three plants got a little overwatered. The new growth were crumpled and looked very brittle (what you normally get when aphids are sucking on the plants).

Do these leaves still help in photosynthesis or are they hindring the plant's overall growth? These are less than a food tall plants so I wasn't sure whether I should remove these new growth/curled leaves or just let them be.

 

[queequeg152]

anything that is still green will aid in photosynthesis.

i would leave the leaves alone since its a small plant.
if your newest growth is damaged and its not aphids you must find out whats responsible. why did you come to the conclusion thats its over watering? its probably nutrient/ph/alkalinity/medium related.

 

[STEVE954]

You might have broad mites. Can you post a picture?

 

[jlacosta]

anything that is still green will aid in photosynthesis.

i would leave the leaves alone since its a small plant.
if your newest growth is damaged and its not aphids you must find out whats responsible. why did you come to the conclusion thats its over watering? its probably nutrient/ph/alkalinity/medium related.

It was a newbie mistake of watering twice a day. This is my first time to grow peppers. After spending days here in the forum, I realized the roots don't need a swim or a regular bath like we do

You might have broad mites. Can you post a picture?

Will post a photo later. It's only 6:30AM here and the sun is still down. Will take a couple of snapshots when I get the chance.

 

[patrick]

anything that is still green will aid in photosynthesis.

i would leave the leaves alone since its a small plant.
if your newest growth is damaged and its not aphids you must find out whats responsible. why did you come to the conclusion thats its over watering? its probably nutrient/ph/alkalinity/medium related.

Good call on the "if it's green it's helping". Could you explain why you think his problem is related to nutrient/ph/alkalinity/medium related? Thanks

 

[queequeg152]

its by simple exclusion

because over watering damages or kills plants in a very specific way, it will either destroy the roots by promoting the proliferation of soil born;root destroying microbes/fungi or by completely starving the roots of oxygen, this verry difficult to accomplish, however the former isnt. say you put a saucer under a container and it rains? your roots will say super super wet, wicking up the water untill that saucer empties.

in my experiance its very difficult to over water a pepper plant. this may not be the case with other things... ferns or cacti maby? idk. many fancy F1 cultivars are actually bred to be extensivly resistant to soil born fungi bacteria nematodes and crap like that. while growth of the aforementioned examples are not exclusively increased by over watering, many are.
a proper soil mix will pretty much exclude the possibility of over watering... barring insanity.

when a plant has its roots destroyed, or is in the process of having its roots destroyed, it will typically wilt uniformly. in a very slight case the plant will stunt, however from what ive learned, herbacious plants like peppers and toms lettuce etc... stuff without extensive woody trunks and roots are much more susceptible to just dieing totally. in that case you would get uniform wilting, slight at first, then as the plant cannot maintain turgidity it will wilt completely.
now... in the case of a more established plant with a large root system, what you see is as the roots get destroyed, new growth is no longer able to maintain turgidity, and will wilt and eventually scorch. the old growth may remain unaffected tho. in plants with like... multiple colors pigments, as the leaves die you will get that autumn effect where in, as the chlorophyll decomposes other colors become more dominate. in that case you may not see yellowing but rather more red or orange prior to the leaf dieing off.

anyway nothing ive ever seen or read suggests that damaged roots will somehow manifest symptoms consistent with critter damage or nutrient deficiency. its my understanding that its all symptomatic with loss of turgidity and the stress associated with it.

on the other hand over watering may essentially " drag" out what ever minerals and nutrients are inside the soil, in that case i suppose you could claim that over watering caused a nutrient related issue... however i would cite the oft repeated causation /correlation example.


edit: pedantry

 

[jlacosta]

Here are some photos and some short description.

I started with 5 Thai Chili a month and half ago and had 4 plants in pots and tried 1 in a non-circulating hydroponics bucket (which I used for my basils and bok choy).

The following 3 plants were originally from pots which I switched to hydro when I noticed they weren't growing too well.

This one was the experiment which would be transferred to an bigger bucket once it reaches a good root growth.

Some photos of the aphids damage a couple of weeks ago of the plants when they were still in pots:

Now this is my problem plant. I didn't put this in the hydro because I didn't have anymore buckets.

Same plant showing the previous damage the aphids did

This should give a better idea of what I was seeking advice for. With the plants not in hydros and with some leaves with aphids damaged, should I let them be or cut them off?

For my remaining potted plant, do I take out my razor and have this dumped in the compost?

Any advice is welcome. Thanks!

Oh and this is how I grow my basil. I put 3 in a 5 liter bucket. Tie the tips to make them lean so the leaves would get enough sun. Unfortunately, I stressed one too much and it snapped

 

[queequeg152]

mite damage.

if you have corrected the issue, a critter damaged leaf wont do any further harm to your plant. however those last photos look like mites, broad mites even. they are not easily killed.

first i would verify my guess... do you have a good magnifier? or some sort of microscope? pinch off a leaf, and get as good a look at it as you can.
once verified, we can talk about how to kill them. Ive delt with mites extensively, and precluding organic remedies, i can suggest several pesticides that will kill them.

 

[jlacosta]

when a plant has its roots destroyed, or is in the process of having its roots destroyed, it will typically wilt uniformly. in a very slight case the plant will stunt, however from what ive learned, herbacious plants like peppers and toms lettuce etc... stuff without extensive woody trunks and roots are much more susceptible to just dieing totally. in that case you would get uniform wilting, slight at first, then as the plant cannot maintain turgidity it will wilt completely.

Mine was a little mixed of both leaf damage and deformed leaves. I did save the plants by watering/spraying twice a day. The aphids were gone in 4 days and I continued the regimen just to find out the leaves were growing brittle. I transferred them to a hydro bucket to save them but they gut pretty stunted.

 

[queequeg152]

what did you spray? do you know the active ingredient?

 

[jlacosta]

Mine was a little mixed of both leaf damage and deformed leaves. I did save the plants by watering/spraying twice a day. The aphids were gone in 4 days and I continued the regimen just to find out the leaves were growing brittle. I transferred them to a hydro bucket to save them but they gut pretty stunted.

mite damage.

if you have corrected the issue, a critter damaged leaf wont do any further harm to your plant. however those last photos look like mites, broad mites even. they are not easily killed.

first i would verify my guess... do you have a good magnifier? or some sort of microscope? pinch off a leaf, and get as good a look at it as you can.
once verified, we can talk about how to kill them. Ive delt with mites extensively, and precluding organic remedies, i can suggest several pesticides that will kill them.

I used to have spider mites in a pepper plant a few months back from a hab which was given to me as a gift. Unfortunately, the plant literally wilted and died a slow death like what you mentioned. It was already to late when I learned that spraying water helps suppress these mites since they are arachnids in the first place. So I am certain there are no mites on my plants at the moment.

I sprayed only water to fight off the aphids and whiteflies and just recently used AACT for foliar feeding which actually helped a little. I have no real experience in growing peppers so I have no comparison whether they did boost growth or whatnot (still learning). So yeah, the plants right now are quite clean. The trauma of the mite problem somewhat made me paranoid too which have resulted in me not realizing my plants were literally swimming.

Took a photo with my phone a couple of minutes ago of the underside of the leaf of the potted one which had brittle looking leaves.

Also, does anyone know what this is? These guys are quite hard to grab. they run along the stems when you try to grab them and they also jump.

 

[Prehensile]

Aphids and White Flies help transport mites from plant to plant, mite damage leaves a bronze tint on the underside of the leaves they infect.

 

[gasificada]

No doubt about it, you have broad mite.

It was already to late when I learned that spraying water helps suppress these mites since they are arachnids in the first place. So I am certain there are no mites on my plants at the moment.

While hitting your plants with water might help against spider mite (they prefer dry conditions), it will only do more harm than good against broad mite (the little bastages thrive in humid conditions).

 

[patrick]

Thanks for the response queequeg152. I appreciate you taking the time.

I'll second the broad mites too. I've been dealing with them for the past three years. Very hard to get a handle on them. Hard to see the little turds. Good luck.