chinense DNA tests that proved reaper= primo?

Hawaiianero, on reapers: I have learned they are very, very, very late season.  Also, they like to get kind of dry before you give them a drink.  No clue what they do in you climate, but here I get good results when I plant in December and let them dry out between watering.

On primo, OK so how do we find out how to order seeds from Mr. Primeaux.  I have been a googling but all I find is what I think is an old site that does not have seeds offered.  Any clue cause I am game.  Figure on planting same time and keeping track of when they break ground, what the germination rate it and so on.  Might buy a lab coat and be all scientific.
 
karoo said:
With SHU testing.:
- Do they test one whole pepper (seeds,placenta , and flesh)?
- Do they test it per pepper or per weight unit.?
 
ajdrew, I understand your question.
With all the hype around very hot and super hot peppers , the average and low scores are thrown in the dustbin.
Nobody wants to admit to growing a 800 000 Reaper!
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It's up to the person, grower, or company who sends us the sample to decide how many are in the test group and the type of sample sent.  For small growers like myself, I may dry and grind up about a dozen pods.  For an actual farm who wants to test fresh pods, they should randomly grab pods from various places for testing.  Most companies testing super-hots, dry and grind a bunch of pods, maybe hundreds, then send me a small bag they sampled for testing.
 
In the SHU test results seen on page 1 of this thread, we were sent 30 or more fresh pods of each.  These are pureed in a blender with stems and all, then small samples are taken for testing.   The same for testing is weighed and diluted for extraction before testing.
 
You can test from 1 to a million peppers, it's up to the customer to decide.  I just test whatever is sent and the customer doesn't have to tell me anything.
 
ajdrew said:
   Anyway, kind of curious about the range of the super hots.  Reaper was just on my mind cause I just saw the SHU ratings posted.
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At our lab, we've tested these type of super-hots from maybe 700,000 to 1.5 million.  Nobody likes to talk about their small oh, I mean "mild" peppers! :)   I've never tested anything over 1.8 million.  People always think that growers cheat by selecting fewer pods, but in reality the way to get the highest (and lowest) numbers is testing more pods or plants in many small groups.  I love this paper by the Chile Pepper Institute, on the 2nd page at the bottom, it shows how big the range can be.  http://www.chilepepperinstitute.org/content/files/trinidad_moruga_scorpion_pepper_hottest.pdf (<-- Click here to see the paper)
 
Cheers!
 
1tom2go, funny you would mention mild peppers.  Not sure it will be good for business, but in 2016 growing any that I think are visually attractive or unusual.  Hoping it will turn heads at the farmers market where the milder sweet peppers do the best.  I am thinking small peppers halved into stir fry and salads would be very attractive.  First up Trinidad Perfume.

I seem to remember somewhere you mentioned making home made sauce.  In most of the jams and sauces I have made, sweet peppers are the number one ingredient.  Most super hots are so hot that you just cant use that many in a recipe, but you can get great pepper flavor by loading up with sweet and then spicing up with the hot.  I think maybe it is too expensive for industry.  Love it when I make a multi colored bell pepper fajita cause I wind up eating twenty dollar lunches that cost me nothing.
 
I think your right ajdrew, that cool looking mild peppers would do great at the farmers market.  The trinidad perfume is a great example of a yummy yellow spaceship people can add to salads etc.  
 
Im thinking there is still a huge range of pheno's in existence for the " Primos & Repaers etc. " that are out there... I put that down to about a  -30% / +30% of the average.. Add another 10-20% shift for growing conditions and you have 1,000,000 to 2,250,000 variance..
 
There is just going to generations out there with better placenta and oil producing genes...  and adding to that nutrient, weather conditions etc thats always goig to effect the fruit ..
 
I have the original seeds from Mr. Troy Primo back in the day.  Probably as pure as they come and written as isolated right on the package.  I was involved with growing this one from day one.  I plan on using a few of these seeds and conducting my own 'experiment',  I am not sure how many people still have the originals before the variety got very popular.  It has always been one of my favorites.  I am not sure what generation this cross was when first released to the public.  I don't believe the packaging said this.  it has been pretty consistent for me so I assume it had a decent number of F generations before release.
 
Chris
 
Cmpman, I wrote to an email address provided to me for Mr. Primeaux hoping to do a side by side grow.  My main goal is to have fun with other folk trying the same.  Also, hoping to get folk interested in doing business directly with Mr. Primeaux if he is in the business of selling seed. 
 
ajdrew, Mr. Primeaux is a member of this site, but he hasn't logged on here since 8/17/14, so I don't think he is very active.
 
ajdrew said:
Cmpman, I wrote to an email address provided to me for Mr. Primeaux hoping to do a side by side grow.  My main goal is to have fun with other folk trying the same.  Also, hoping to get folk interested in doing business directly with Mr. Primeaux if he is in the business of selling seed. 
Click to expand...
 
It seems very odd to me that these initial results appear and then we're left to just sling mud over whether or not they're the same pepper?  Now, there's news of the results being published, or the results are coming "soon"...who would go through all this trouble to say, "they're different peppers genetically!!!" in the end.  Makes no sense.  Obviously, they're the same.  Nobody would publish that all these tests were done and Mr.Currie is in the clear considering he is innocent until proven guilty.  No story there, just back to business.   
 
I'll admit I'm curious about the results and a newb compared to many here (if not almost all) but I think the fact that this is being handled so slowly and formally means that they are in fact the same pepper and just different strains of the primo.  Does that make sense?  I genuinely hope they are different because I hope for some class in this community and something this shady seems unlikely from a soft spoken guy.  Just my 2 cents.  Both amazing peppers and will be growing both with pure seed stock to compare for myself.
 
Makes perfect sense to me if someone is trying to sell a publication.  Doesnt matter what the results are, magazine sells either way.
 
Call me old fashioned, but I like to turn an actual page when I'm reading a magazine lol. With that being said, I read cycling magazines, not Peppers Monthly...Most people have no clue what the reaper is. This isn't front page headline material. We're talking about such a small niche world, but I guess a false guiness world record would bring it to the news on TV. Look at how many TV spots Ed had for the reaper. And if there are lawsuits, then it will definitely be on TV.

All I'm saying is that a story saying they're different and that Currie is in the clear is barely magazine worthy. People are already under that impression but with some legitimate doubts. False guiness world record...worth all this trouble.
 
I buy Blade Magazine when ever I can. It is a trade journal for knife makers.  I gotta figure people in different trades still want to flip a page now and then.  But now you make me feel old.

On the Reaper issue, some could have faked the labels but it looks like there are sauce companies who already have products ready to go which capitalize on the controversy.  Seems like follow the money / sop is still the name of the game.  Gotta figure the conflict in various forums are advertisement for the sauces.
 
I got primo seeds from Troy 2 years ago and my reaper seeds came from pepper Joe/ Currie. They aren't side by side, just because they look the same, in most cases, but they are 10 feet apart in the exact same growing conditions.
What I am growing, I can taste random unmarked samples and tell you which ones are which. The reaper has can average red taste that is nothing special. The primo has a special taste that is much better. The primo has been my favorite pepper for the last 2 years. They just taste clean and make a great sauce.
This may be a subtle difference, but the reapers are excellent producers. I hand pollinate all my production plants, and the reapers set well. In early spring, I found that when I hand pollinate some peppers, like primos,and brain strains, I can pollinate 100 flowers and get hardly any set at all. It seems to be a 3 week period around March, that they just don't seem like they are in the mood. It is almost like receptivity in cycads that I can't explain exactly why this happens.
I'm not sure what will happen with all this, but my primos will always be called primos, and the reapers will always be reapers. I can tell the difference and so can the customers I work with locally. Maybe they have the same genetics and then Currie may have used what he had and steered it towards what his are now. I've seen huge differences in taste and heat with Fataliis. Maybe this is the same thing. We will see. Oh, on buying Troy's seeds, if you had a good email address, he will write back. He didn't have something formal, but we got it worked out. Tom
 
Cyadjungle, all of my outdoor reapers are dead or close to it from frost.  Almost all of my 7 pot primo are alive, tops damaged from the frost but pods still ripening, lower leaves still green and crisp.  Seems like primo is hardier.  They do taste different.  Thing is, we both only have a slice of the genetic pie for either. 
 
I could -imagine- reaper is a small slice of the Primo pie, but it seems so many people described the reaper pod shape as being all over the place at first.  So it doesnt make much sense to me.  I think if anyone is going to say for sure one way or the other it is going to have to be the folk with letters behind their names.
 
It takes 8 generations.  Can be done in 4 years.  Very intensive though - and expensive.
 
I'm of the opinion that they are are the same outcross, just with different strains.
 
Reaper = sloooooooooow (for me in the S. Hemisphere), not particularly productive.
 
Primo = faster (about as fast as a Naga - which is half as fast as a 7 pot down here in the temperate south), very productive over a long period.
 
The two are definitely the same outcross = a red 7 Pot x Naga Morich.
 
Difference is that Troy's was first - so the chances are that he used the original SR strain of 7 Pot (which is the same strain that Cappy used to isolate the Brain Strain).
 
Currie's came after so chances are that he used a different strain of 7 Pot - i.o.w. not the original.
 
And before anybody says "Blah" 7 Pot is a 7 Pot: even BT reckons what he grew as a Trini Scorp is not quite what is doing the rounds now.  Things change.  It's the natural order of things.
 
Personally, I couldn't taste a difference at all. I just see that the primo is stable where as the reaper, I always see off phenos.
 
I have grown both the past few years and have tried samples of both from different growers. They are nearly impossible to tell apart by visual appearance. The ones I grew I can tell apart by taste, but the differences can be subtle. It also seems the primo sometimes has a thicker wall, but that is also variable and may just be just growing conditions. Both are very good peppers and are very hot. I think the primos I grew have a fuller flavor and are a little hotter than the reapers, so for 2016 the reapers have been dropped from my grow.
 
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