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fermenting Down the drain...first fermented sauce

Roguejim

Roguejim

It would have been 30 days on Halloween for this fermented sauce, but I pitched it out.  Everything seemed okay until after the kahm yeast showed up, which I know is not a problem by itself.  First the liquid beneath the yeast became cloudy, and then, a few days later, the floating yeast started to sink down, onto the mash below.  Is that supposed to happen?  Anyway, everything beneath the surface had a thin white blanket covering it, the yeast even making its way down into the mash.  The smell was predominantly of garlic, but I thought I could detect sulphur notes, too.  I wasn't comfortable with it, so out it went.  I guess I have more to learn before/if I attempt this again.  I wasted a SFRB of Primos on this.
 
Just a suggestion, but it would be great if one of the experienced sauciers here could put together a pictorial showing the progression of a pepper mash, especially when the kahm yeast appear.
 
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The key word you used is float...sounds like you have quite a bit of liquid. I work with mashes which are compacted peppers certain % of salt and very little head space in the jars.
No yeast, very little liquid........long periods of time stored in the basement (6 months+)
Small batch stuff great on its own but I do add ingredients..as I like a bit of Cane Vinegar and spices before bottled.
I also use Star-San to sterilize the mash jars prior to capping. Use firm peppers only not overripe. Don't give up on the idea , find out what went wrong.
 
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Yeah, your comfort with whats going on in the jar is a big kicker in the decision on whether or not to keep it going or dump it. Garlic is the predominate scent that I get when a fermentation is going. A little information, Kahm yeast usually happens for one of several reasons.
 
1. There is not enough salt.
2. It is too warm.
3. Over exposure to the air.
4. From poor hygiene.
5. Acidity in the jar doesn't build up quickly enough
 
Your the only one that can identify which reason is most likely why.
 
The sulfur smell is usually associated with a black or blue mould that can infect the jar. Mould forms for the above reasons, and also because there was not enough liquid - the solid matter is left exposed to the air and light, especially during the first few days before sufficient acidity builds up.
 
It sounds like you had plenty of liquid in the jar though so, hard call on that one. I tried to find your original post to review your procedures but didn't see it. My recommendation is go back through your notes and see if you can identify what might have happened. Then identify better methods to do that step to prevent it happening again.
 
+1 to Greg, Pic 1, your equipment doesn't have to be boiled sterile. Star-San, I use Idophor, or other no rinse sanitizer as used in home brewing beer will work perfectly.
 
I'll go back through my pics and see if I can find any pics of a mash progressing. Don't give up though, once you have it dialed in and a couple of mashes under your belt you'll be golden and cranking them out like a pro :)
 
EDIT:
Ok, here a link to a fermented sauce I made back in 2011. There are lots of shots of the jar as the mash progresses including the Kahm yeast that formed. It fermented for 90 days. BTW, it was loved by everyone that tried it :)
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/20941-jamaican-so-hot-sauce/#entry437974
 
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RocketMan said:
 
Yeah, your comfort with whats going on in the jar is a big kicker in the decision on whether or not to keep it going or dump it. Garlic is the predominate scent that I get when a fermentation is going. A little information, Kahm yeast usually happens for one of several reasons.
 
1. There is not enough salt.
2. It is too warm.
3. Over exposure to the air.
4. From poor hygiene.
5. Acidity in the jar doesn't build up quickly enough
 
Your the only one that can identify which reason is most likely why.
 
The sulfur smell is usually associated with a black or blue mould that can infect the jar. Mould forms for the above reasons, and also because there was not enough liquid - the solid matter is left exposed to the air and light, especially during the first few days before sufficient acidity builds up.
 
It sounds like you had plenty of liquid in the jar though so, hard call on that one. I tried to find your original post to review your procedures but didn't see it. My recommendation is go back through your notes and see if you can identify what might have happened. Then identify better methods to do that step to prevent it happening again.
 
+1 to Greg, Pic 1, your equipment doesn't have to be boiled sterile. Star-San, I use Idophor, or other no rinse sanitizer as used in home brewing beer will work perfectly.
 
I'll go back through my pics and see if I can find any pics of a mash progressing. Don't give up though, once you have it dialed in and a couple of mashes under your belt you'll be golden and cranking them out like a pro :)
 
EDIT:
Ok, here a link to a fermented sauce I made back in 2011. There are lots of shots of the jar as the mash progresses including the Kahm yeast that formed. It fermented for 90 days. BTW, it was loved by everyone that tried it :)
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/20941-jamaican-so-hot-sauce/#entry437974
 
Click to expand...
Roguejim said:
 
 
Yeah, your comfort with whats going on in the jar is a big kicker in the decision on whether or not to keep it going or dump it. Garlic is the predominate scent that I get when a fermentation is going. A little information, Kahm yeast usually happens for one of several reasons.
 
1. There is not enough salt.
2. It is too warm.
3. Over exposure to the air.
4. From poor hygiene.
5. Acidity in the jar doesn't build up quickly enough
 
Your the only one that can identify which reason is most likely why.
 
The sulfur smell is usually associated with a black or blue mould that can infect the jar. Mould forms for the above reasons, and also because there was not enough liquid - the solid matter is left exposed to the air and light, especially during the first few days before sufficient acidity builds up.
 
It sounds like you had plenty of liquid in the jar though so, hard call on that one. I tried to find your original post to review your procedures but didn't see it. My recommendation is go back through your notes and see if you can identify what might have happened. Then identify better methods to do that step to prevent it happening again.
 
+1 to Greg, Pic 1, your equipment doesn't have to be boiled sterile. Star-San, I use Idophor, or other no rinse sanitizer as used in home brewing beer will work perfectly.
 
I'll go back through my pics and see if I can find any pics of a mash progressing. Don't give up though, once you have it dialed in and a couple of mashes under your belt you'll be golden and cranking them out like a pro :)
 
EDIT:
Ok, here a link to a fermented sauce I made back in 2011. There are lots of shots of the jar as the mash progresses including the Kahm yeast that formed. It fermented for 90 days. BTW, it was loved by everyone that tried it :)
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/20941-jamaican-so-hot-sauce/#entry437974
 
 
 
Reviewing all the info in this thread, I see my hygiene was not good.  I also had quite a bit more liquid above the mash than you had in your pics.  Somehow, I missed the need for sanitizing the jar when I read the pinned tutorial.  Being a home brewer, I understand why.  But, in brewing, everything (the wort) is sanitized or sterilized going in the fermenter.  With hot sauce mashing, none of the veggies are sanitized, although, I guess, the jar still needs to be.  Do you sanitize your knives or food processor?
 
Also, can I use whey from cheese making, when the curds separate from the whey?  The whey won't be sanitized in this case.  Thanks.
 
Click to expand...
 
Click to expand...
 
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Reviewing all the info in this thread, I see my hygiene was not good.  I also had quite a bit more liquid above the mash than you had in your pics.  Somehow, I missed the need for sanitizing the jar when I read the pinned tutorial.  Being a home brewer, I understand why.  But, in brewing, everything (the wort) is sanitized or sterilized going in the fermenter.  With hot sauce mashing, none of the veggies are sanitized, although, I guess, the jar still needs to be.  Do you sanitize your knives or food processor?
 
In Home Brewing everything is sanitized including the wort and then the wort is cooled very fast to get it out of the danger zone, so that no bacteria get into it and ruin the wort, then we pitch the yeast. In fermenting veggies often times we are actually using the wild lacto bacteria that live on the outside of them. In this case we want to make sure that everything that touches the mash is sanitized to prevent the addition of anything additional and then we have the brine to keep the nasties at bay till the lacto take charge and the acid level is high enough to prevent it.
 
Also, can I use whey from cheese making, when the curds separate from the whey?  The whey won't be sanitized in this case.  Thanks.
 
Pretty much any medium that contains the lacto bacteria can be used as a starter. I have used the whey from yogurt as well as sourdough starter hooch to start ferments and have watched others use things like the pure  lactobacillus from White Labs used for making sour beers and the veggie starters that are commercially available and they all do the job. As for the whey being sanitized the proper word for that is Pasteurized and if it were then the lacto would be dead.
 
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I didnt sterilize my jars.  I figured that since the peppers arent boiled/sterilized and that im actually trying to grow bacteria, it seemed pointless.  I figure the best way to keep the nasties out is for the lacto to get going quickly.  The faster it takes hold, the quicker it becomes anaerobic and the pH drops.  So my focus is on getting it going quick with a good starter, and a nice warm temp.

I guess I should add that I dont see any harm in sterilizing the jars, i just didnt personally bother.
 
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