Drax peppers

Why does anyone share seeds for a cross that isn't F8? This nonsense could explain the Primo/Reaper debate. Maybe they were the same pepper at F2 or F3 and they were just stabilized differently from then on out?
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
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While I admire their passion I have a problem with seed sellers listing open pollinated seeds of F2 crosses, in this case BIG BLACK MAMA X 7 POT LAVA RED (Pheno1), and naming it 3MSHU.
 
Even if I was Visitor 223!
 
I couldnt find the pepper you are talking about. Does it have a name on the website? I think the cow killer looks good.
 
Ruid said:
Why does anyone share seeds for a cross that isn't F8? This nonsense could explain the Primo/Reaper debate. Maybe they were the same pepper at F2 or F3 and they were just stabilized differently from then on out?
Same pepper at f3; only one was ever stabilized LOL.

I think that sharing seeds among friends/families/online acquaintances for free/in-trade is cool and fun, so long as both parties know what they're working with. But whenever I see early-gen cross seeds for sale to the public, though, I think that's bad form.
 
It is definitely interesting.His name is Diego something his last name escapes me at the moment.Did some trades with Diego several years ago and was pleased.I must say there are several other European growers that have some interesting crosses.
 
Drax Diego Doomslinger:
 
Sounds like a super villain,
 
Meanwhile at the halls of justice: we are looking for the person who planted the device... we think it was Drax.....oh god no!!!! We are going to need everyone here! The kryptonite guy, and aqua man, and that guy with the green ring. and the wonder twins. ASAP! I jest lol. Cheers! Merry Christmas!
 
BadNaiveChanticleer-small.gif
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
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While I admire their passion I have a problem with seed sellers listing open pollinated seeds of F2 crosses, in this case BIG BLACK MAMA X 7 POT LAVA RED (Pheno1), and naming it 3MSHU.
 
Even if I was Visitor 223!
 
 
"We recommend growing as many plants from the seeds of an OP variety to have a greater success rate in finding the correct phenotype."
 
When I read that, it tells me I need to grow many plants to have a chance at getting that phenotype. Mind you, the seed is an f3 which means the plant itself as an f2.
 
F2 seed is indeed very variable indeed, and since the fruit is all pretty uniform in his picture I  assume the seed was all collected off of one plant.
 
When you buy seed like this, even if it was isolated, you are looking at a playing the lottery. I'd much rather have f1 seed myself as a general rule.
 
I also see your point about his seed being open pollinated and not yet stable. Another source of error should there be an accidental pollination via our friendly insects.
 
With all of that being said, I gamed on his Candy Coat and I am currently growing them out. I did this as I know variegation is a recessive trait. That means, this interspecific hybrid that is likely a little over 50% C. annuum with a huge sprinkling of C. chinense genes should be 100% variegated.... baring any insect pollinations.
 
My order came back quickly after I ordered and I knew what I was getting myself into. I planted each seed and I am waiting patiently for the seedlings to get large enough to show variegation.
 
I also know that if there is no variegation, I likely have an outcross due to insects, but my resulting seed will still be heterozygous for variegation.
 
With all of that being said, while he is very honest in his post, I have to admit.... not everyone would understand that even reading his post. I understand all of that and it comes as second nature to me to see that.... but many may not.
 
As for the naming of that unstable hybrid... that is another ball of wax altogether and probably deserves its own thread, but I'll touch on it here.
 
When you name a cross, I personally feel that name should be a working name. But that cross does not in my opinion merit a true name until it is truly stable and true breeding.
 
Many different phenotypes can arise out of a single cross between two stable and true breeding plants. Given that there are 4,096 different ways those chromosomes can present themselves in the pollen grains alone... the resulting combinations total over 16 million when factored in with the ovules as well. That is a lot of diversity folks and we are simply talking about independent assortment of chromosomes here. We haven't even factored in other unique changes to the chromosomes due to chromosome crossover/recombination.
 
So, point well put....
BudGluing for isolated seed .png
 
I've had great experience with Drax.  He has some great work.
I don't see anything wrong with him selling unstable seeds.  He states they are unstable, and recommends you grow out as many as you can to increase the odds of finding his pictured/named pheno.  Now if someone grows out his seeds and sells any and every pheno as his named pheno, that's where I see a problem.  F1, F2,...F8 does not tell if a hybrid is stable anyhow...  Just my 2.
 
HammerD said:
I've had great experience with Drax.  He has some great work.
I don't see anything wrong with him selling unstable seeds.  He states they are unstable, and recommends you grow out as many as you can to increase the odds of finding his pictured/named pheno.  Now if someone grows out his seeds and sells any and every pheno as his named pheno, that's where I see a problem.  F1, F2,...F8 does not tell if a hybrid is stable anyhow...  Just my 2.
 
That is very important to understand, you could have an f10 hybrid and still have an unstable hybrid. You could grow out one seedling each generation and what good is that? Tell us some numbers you are working with in each generation and how stable the plant is... how many variants you get out of each generation. Then those filial generations start to have some meaning. But the way it is now, you could say you were f20 and who is the wiser? Show me how stable and true breeding your hybrid is.... don't just tell me I've got an f8 as that by itself means less than an f1 where we at least know what genes the plant is heterozygous for... that is if we actually put pollen to pistil by hand and didn't just rely on insects and some anomaly we discovered in the garden.
 
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