Epsom Salts question

bpiela

bpiela

Hello all,
 
I recently had a conversation with a friend who said that Epsom Salts, when applied to the soil as opposed to a foliar spray, will help the amino acids that produce the capsaicin oil in hot peppers.  I haven't heard of a connection between Epsom Salts and Capsaicin production before.  Actually, I do not know how capsaicin is produced.  I did some searching around and I really cannot find a link between the two although I did see on one page that the Sulfur is critical for the production of vitamins, amino acids and protein, and enzymes.
 
Any Biologists here that can vouch for the connection between Epsom Salts and Capsaicin production?  Just curious.
 
 
Thanks!
 
Phenylpropanoids are the enzymes responsible for capsaicin, the precursor to which is 4-Coumaroyl-CoA. It is generated in nature from phenylalanine, which is converted by PAL to trans-cinnamate. Trans-cinnamate is hydroxylated by trans-cinnamate 4-monooxygenase to give 4-hydroxycinnamate (i.e, coumarate). Coumarate is condensed with coenzyme-A in the presence of 4-coumarate-CoA ligase:
 
ATP + 4-coumarate + CoA <=>  AMP + diphosphate + 4-coumaroyl-CoA.
 
As your friend did say it helps the amino acids, I'll go back as far as the phenylalanine, the only amino acid doing anything here. I looked for magnesium sulfate interacting with phenylalanine and did find a few studies - however they all said that there was no link between the two:
 
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-012-1555-2
 
Top-notch response, right here


Powelly said:
Phenylpropanoids are the enzymes responsible for capsaicin, the precursor to which is 4-Coumaroyl-CoA. It is generated in nature from phenylalanine, which is converted by PAL to trans-cinnamate. Trans-cinnamate is hydroxylated by trans-cinnamate 4-monooxygenase to give 4-hydroxycinnamate (i.e, coumarate). Coumarate is condensed with coenzyme-A in the presence of 4-coumarate-CoA ligase:
 
ATP + 4-coumarate + CoA <=>  AMP + diphosphate + 4-coumaroyl-CoA.
 
As your friend did say it helps the amino acids, I'll go back as far as the phenylalanine, the only amino acid doing anything here. I looked for magnesium sulfate interacting with phenylalanine and did find a few studies - however they all said that there was no link between the two:
 
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-012-1555-2
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Epsom salt is good for having more flowers on your plant. More flowers means more chances for pods. More pods means more capsaicin.
 
 
Inedible said:
Epsom salt is good for having more flowers on your plant. More flowers means more chances for pods. More pods means more capsaicin.
 
Click to expand...
 
This is still one of the most controversial statements ever propagated in growing circles.
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There is no substitute for environmental conditions, and nutrients being available to a plant, when they're needed.  If you have more flowers after using epsom salt, it simply means that you have a deficiency in your soil (if planting in-ground) or in your container mix.
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Otherwise, I'd have to know why Epsom salts supposedly (as if by magic) produce more flowers, than non-Epsom plants.  Because only then could we have an actual conversation about why this method seems to work for some, and does absolute squat for others.  I am ever the skeptic on this subject...
 
beavers said:
 
*sigh*  The things we do for Science....
 
<zzzzzzip>
Click to expand...
 
 
Well, it was discussing that the availability of urea-based nitrogen had a whole lot to do with capsaicin metabolization. I just simplified it :-)
 
solid7 said:
If you have more flowers after using epsom salt, it simply means that you have a deficiency in your soil (if planting in-ground) or in your container mix.
Click to expand...
 
My experience is limited, but I use Miracle Gro soil and I get more flowers. The explanation I read is that the magnesium absorbs very quickly. More nitrogen for more leaves and more magnesium for more flowers. For more heat in the pods, I have been taught to expect this from hot and dry weather. Within reason. But mostly, I just need better neighbors who won't kill my plants.
 
podz said:
Well, it was discussing that the availability of urea-based nitrogen had a whole lot to do with capsaicin metabolization. I just simplified it :-)
Click to expand...
 
heh, sorry if I offended, wasn't my intention, just being silly.  Although really, where else would urea be available to the average gardener?  I don't think my local garden center carries it!
 
Inedible said:
But mostly, I just need better neighbors who won't kill my plants.
Click to expand...
 
What kind of turf war are you fighting? :D
 
beavers said:
 
heh, sorry if I offended, wasn't my intention, just being silly.  Although really, where else would urea be available to the average gardener?  I don't think my local garden center carries it!
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Chicken manure.  One of the very best sources. 
 
beavers said:
 
heh, sorry if I offended, wasn't my intention, just being silly.  Although really, where else would urea be available to the average gardener?  I don't think my local garden center carries it!
Click to expand...
 

If you got a Menards in KY they carry Chick-N-Poo. Its only about $9 for a 25lb bag
https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/gardening/lawn-plant-care/plant-food/chick-n-poo-organic-fertilizer-25-lbs/hgr243bb25/p-1500013962194-c-1463608034798.htm?tid=2843125422739500144&ipos=1
 
My neighbors scoop out my plants and scatter the potting soil. Often they damage the roots, too, so if I get to them in time and put them back they still die.
 
I thought all birds do uric acid and not urea, including chickens?
 
 
Inedible said:
My neighbors scoop out my plants and scatter the potting soil. Often they damage the roots, too, so if I get to them in time and put them back they still die.
 
I thought all birds do uric acid and not urea, including chickens?
 
Click to expand...
 
Isn't Iowa a castle law state? Time to protect your peppers with equally fatal force
 
beavers said:
 
heh, sorry if I offended, wasn't my intention, just being silly.  Although really, where else would urea be available to the average gardener?  I don't think my local garden center carries it!
Click to expand...
 
 
No offense taken, just trying to be funny!
 
Don't know about USA, but urea is a highly controlled and regulated substance in the European Union. Sales are generally only approved to certain types of businesses (farmers being one of them) and the names of purchasers + quantity of purchase is kept in govt databases.
 
Yes, even chicken shit package size is kept ridiculously small so that if you buy even a moderate amount it sends info to the gov because you are forced to pay with a card as most shops won't accept cash over 50 eur anymore. #kindergarten
 
podz said:
Don't know about USA, but urea is a highly controlled and regulated substance in the European Union. Sales are generally only approved to certain types of businesses (farmers being one of them) and the names of purchasers + quantity of purchase is kept in govt databases.
 
Yes, even chicken shit package size is kept ridiculously small so that if you buy even a moderate amount it sends info to the gov because you are forced to pay with a card as most shops won't accept cash over 50 eur anymore. #kindergarten
Click to expand...
 
If you're a military or survivalist type, you are taught how to make low grade explosives with chicken shit.  So it's no surprise that the more leftist governments out there would want to control the supply, and take names of all parties.
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In our country, some of our worst domestic tragedies have been carried out by people with access to commercial ag products.  You have to have chemigation certifications, and definitely are in a database when you purchase certain of these items.  However, there have also since been additives put in place, to reduce the explosiveness of both urea and ammonium based fertilizers.
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When I was a kid, we used to use diesel fuel and ammonium fertilizer as both pest control, and as a way to remove the remnants of large trees.  Back then, I don't even remember needing any special credentials to obtain the blasting cap to set it all off.  Holy hell, though.  That shit is uber-dangerous.
 
I'm not wanting to start a political debate but my stance is any person bent on causing harm will find  a way. My youngest is a free thinker (Nothing harmful to others!) and I've often advised him not to post these thoughts online in today's atmosphere of ?discontent?.
 
I believe in free speech but I'm happy to see measures are being taken to ferret out those with evil intent. I started looking something up about the above and found a famous situation where the material the material was stolen to perform the act.... and you'll note I didn't use any words that might trigger red flags of interest to this post.
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
I'm not wanting to start a political debate but my stance is any person bent on causing harm will find  a way. My youngest is a free thinker (Nothing harmful to others!) and I've often advised him not to post these thoughts online in today's atmosphere of ?discontent?.
 
I believe in free speech but I'm happy to see measures are being taken to ferret out those with evil intent. I started looking something up about the above and found a famous situation where the material the material was stolen to perform the act.... and you'll note I didn't use any words that might trigger red flags of interest to this post.
Click to expand...
 
I don't think anyone wants to make this political. (Podz and I have just talked about things before)  I can certainly understand your point, but I choose to speak freely, with nothing to conceal.  Whatever we used to do in the old days is long over.  And I certainly have no intention to do anything nefarious.  That one can no longer just buy a pallet of 50lb bags of AN is really not a problem for me, either.
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Certainly, knowledge is not the same as intent.  My words are black and white, and there's nothing about them that isn't either common knowledge, or easily obtainable.
 
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