Fatali Plant Won't Turn Green

[Derelict]

I live in coastal San Diego and planted over 40 pepper plants in 13 pots in mid-April.  Note that I have received very little fruit so far, but it has been one of the most cool and sunless springs and early summer in recent history.  Thankfully, just today, the first day of July, we had some warmer weather.
 
I had some gotchas at the end of May, when I had to replant about half of my ailing peppers into better potting soil than the garbage that Kellogg sells.  Nearly all have responded well.
 
The one set of plants that just stubbornly remain yellow are the Fatali.  All of my other plants are a healthy green.  Can anyone suggest what I might do short of pulling them up and waiting for next year?
 
 
 

 

[Dalia]

Doing a foliar spray with some epsom salts dissolved in water should help

 

[charlesquik]

Fatalii have always been the hardest pepper to grow for me. 

Germination rate is bad, they grow slower and get the most diseases. 
 
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, because that one of my favorite pepper.
 
Chuck

 

[Nova]

Fatalii have always been the hardest pepper to grow for me. 

Germination rate is bad, they grow slower and get the most diseases. 
 
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, because that one of my favorite pepper.
 
Chuck

 
 
The way to send it with Fatalii is to have a very loose mix of organic matter (which has recently deceased and composted birds and or animals) in it. They love to have companion plants as well and adore clumping.
 
Grow some Goats Weed next it. I bet it will take off. 

 

[solid7]

Doing a foliar spray with some epsom salts dissolved in water should help

 
Please don't do this.  Even if you get some small benefit - which is not guaranteed - it still doesn't fix the actual problem.  You'll just dope yourself with some happy little illusion.  If there's a problem, it's in the root zone, and that's where we fix nutrient issues.  That's how we create permanent fixes. "Root cause" analysis. (pun intended)  Epsom salt sprays are stupid, and I can't tell you how badly I wish people would stop telling new growers to do this.  Stick to basics...
 
 

Fatalii have always been the hardest pepper to grow for me. 

Germination rate is bad, they grow slower and get the most diseases. 
 
I don't know what I'm doing wrong, because that one of my favorite pepper.
 
Chuck

 
I'm not sure what's going on for you, either, Chuck.  Honestly, this is my best growing variety, in almost every category.  It's Captain Reliable.

 

[Dalia]

To be clear, I use epsom salts dissolved in a watering can (not a pre-made solution) on my plants after transplanting into their final containers, and water over the whole plant so it effectively "rains" over the leaves, as well as getting down into the soil. For me it's always helped the transition into the new pots and "greens up" any plants that were lagging behind the others. Sorry if "spray" was the offending word there. 
 
I have two hybrid crosses this year, one was lagging way behind the other at transplanting time, also kind of yellow looking, and after the epsom salt shower/soak it got, you can't tell which one was the runt.
 
Anyway, just my two cents from my own personal experience. 

 

[solid7]

Epsom salt (even foliar spray) is an acceptable means to bridge the gap when an event has caused a disruption which masks the (false) appearance of calcium/magnesium deficiency.  This happens often in heavy rains, droughts, or when quantum growth occurs. (early season, right combo of temp, humidity, pressure, etc - calcium is often the last nutrient to get to the party)  But all too often, it's the "go to" recommendation for struggling plants.
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I made this comment because we don't actually know what's wrong with the plant yet.  The symptoms of nutrient deficiency are often the effects of nutrient uptake being restricted or disrupted - not necessarily nutrients being absent. 

 

[acs1]

I live in coastal San Diego and planted over 40 pepper plants in 13 pots in mid-April.  Note that I have received very little fruit so far, but it has been one of the most cool and sunless springs and early summer in recent history.  Thankfully, just today, the first day of July, we had some warmer weather.
 
I had some gotchas at the end of May, when I had to replant about half of my ailing peppers into better potting soil than the garbage that Kellogg sells.  Nearly all have responded well.
 
The one set of plants that just stubbornly remain yellow are the Fatali.  All of my other plants are a healthy green.  Can anyone suggest what I might do short of pulling them up and waiting for next year?
 
 
 

 
Well, can tell you this with 100% certainty. That plant looks exactly like the fake reaper or red hab I just repotted, except mine was even worse, more pale/yellow.
  Been about a week or so now and the plant is green again showing new growth looking good. Used sFL(solid7) potting mix of 7/2/1 (peat/perilite/worm castings)with 1/2cup Dr Earth 4_6_3 rolled in and 1/2 cup powdered eggshell rolled in.
 
When removed from its pot the main part of root ball was bone dry even though it just got watered hours before and every day. But it wouldn't take much water, water would just run out the bottom of the pot. Someone here called it hydrophobic soil..? iirr it was Miracle grow organic potting mix with 20% perilite I mixed in. Fertilized regularly also. Plant did well with that mix for months, then turned pale/yellow...
 
Beginning to believe solid7 has it right,, the root of most problems that are not pest related stem from the mix/basics... Guess its like building a house on a faulty foundation,, the house will never be right or durable or have longevity...
 
jmo

 

[Derelict]

Epsom salt (even foliar spray) is an acceptable means to bridge the gap when an event has caused a disruption which masks the (false) appearance of calcium/magnesium deficiency.  This happens often in heavy rains, droughts, or when quantum growth occurs. (early season, right combo of temp, humidity, pressure, etc - calcium is often the last nutrient to get to the party)  But all too often, it's the "go to" recommendation for struggling plants.
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I made this comment because we don't actually know what's wrong with the plant yet.  The symptoms of nutrient deficiency are often the effects of nutrient uptake being restricted or disrupted - not necessarily nutrients being absent. 

 
You fellows are talking one level above what this rookie knows, so let me see if I understand the issue you raise.  The act of transplanting is disruptive of course, and can result in a yellowing that is not related to nutrients, but from the shock to the plant.  So the Epsom salt solution just helps with the greening, meaning it's basically for appearance only. 
 
But -- I transplanted a full month ago so I would expect the disruption to be over;  I transplanted about 8 barrels and the plants in the other 7 are fully green and thriving.
 
So let's assume it's a matter of nutrients.  What can I do now to help these ailing Fatalis out?  I am already doing a weekly fish emulsion solution and a 45-day application of dry organic fertilizer.   
 
I also agree with Chuck, Fatali is one of my favorites, although I planted about 6 new ones this year so I may have some new favorites by fall.

 

[solid7]

You fellows are talking one level above what this rookie knows, so let me see if I understand the issue you raise.  The act of transplanting is disruptive of course, and can result in a yellowing that is not related to nutrients, but from the shock to the plant.  So the Epsom salt solution just helps with the greening, meaning it's basically for appearance only.

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That's not at all what was said.  Transplanting should not result in seeing this type of issue.  Disruption occurs when you have either so much, or not enough water, that the plants roots can't pick up the nutrients on demand.  The xylem in the plant keeps moving through the plant, but with a lapse in nutrient delivery.  It's temporary.  There's a much more detailed chemistry explanation for the process, but I'm not going to detail it.  It's irrelevant.
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No, you don't see this with transplant.  Not unless you knocked all the soil/other media off of the roots.  Even then, that's not what it looks like. This looks more like an issue with nutrient uptake in the media.  Possibly a media issue.  
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More info...  from you.
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So let's assume it's a matter of nutrients.

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No, let's absolutely NOT do that. That's being reactionary and twitchy. Give us all the info about your plants. No detail is too much. Where they're located, exact fertilizer, exact media, watering frequency, etc, etc, etc...

 

[Bicycle808]

I just want to say that Yellow Fataliis have always been difficult for me to germinate but once I get them to sprout, they tend to grow like weeds and produce like made for me. This year, I couldn't get then to germinate at all. I gotta try seeds from another source for next year, or maybe for an experiment in indoor growing during the off-season.

As for the Epsom Salt-based foliar spray, I've done it every year so far, but I'm a rookie. This is year three. I understand that using far too much could actually cause the plants to lock other nutrients, such as potassium and calcium, from the excess magnesium. But that's never happened to me. In not sure whether my user of erosion salts has ever actually helped me out not--there have been times where it seemed to-- but there has never been any evidence that it's ever hurt anything, either.

Sure, the best practice is to try to figure out the root cause if possible, and address it as best you can. But we shouldn't act like the suggestion to try some Epsom foliar spray is some sort of faux-pas. It's conventional wisdom. I get that Solid7 questions the actual wisdom of this particular convention, but ppl use it all the time without disaster striking.

 

[solid7]

Sure, the best practice is to try to figure out the root cause if possible, and address it as best you can. But we shouldn't act like the suggestion to try some Epsom foliar spray is some sort of faux-pas. It's conventional wisdom. I get that Solid7 questions the actual wisdom of this particular convention, but ppl use it all the time without disaster striking.

 
The problem is, when you accept a conventionally accepted practice, without the knowledge of whether or not it's actually helping, you miss the opportunity to correct the actual problem.  And you miss the opportunity to improve your own knowledge, in the process. (it's been my general experience that knowledge is a pretty valuable tool for later on situations)
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Think of it this way: You have a sore foot.  Without any further questioning, you pop a couple of your favorite pain killers. (because that's just what everyone has always done)  Heck, maybe you take some elephant hair and tiger penis tonic, too.  It can't hurt, after all, right?  The pain goes away.  It later emerges that you have a stress fracture.  You could have fixed the problem right the first time, but you chose instead to try to "quick fix" it.  Now, you will endure the pain a bit longer, and probably chase it with a few more pain killers.  You may even end up doing this as your de facto method, for the rest of your life.  Some might call this foolish.  (I might be one of them)  Of course, you don't know what you don't know.  I'm a natural skeptic of all things, and I pretty much question everything.  (you'd be surprised at how many people tell you things that can't explain to you in any depth, why they're telling you to do it)
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Let's remember that a lot of people here are rookies, and are just growing for the first time.  As humans, we tend to take our first experiences forward with us.  We form habits out of them.  We pass those habits on to others.  Something like 90% of the forum posts are recycled issues, that get dealt with over, and over, and over again.  You'll have to forgive me if I upset some with my questioning of the orthodoxy.  My only aim is to help make better growers out of people.  And honestly, this is not hard stuff.  But it's tricky, when you have everyone and their dog trying to either sell you something, or showing you up with the type of plants that you want - while never telling you, or even knowing themselves, that a lot of growing success is due to factors that are beyond our control.  I can grow more peppers in a single season than most people on this forum, for example, but my plants don't ever even come close to looking half as good as some that I see here.  But you know what?  It doesn't matter, because I know why that is.  And I want to help everyone that reads my posts find the way to growing success.
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I'm not a rookie.  I've been growing plants since I was a little kid.  Raising produce and selling at market before I was in middle school.  And I'll tell you right now...  I've NEVER in my life sprayed epsom salts.  So take my advice or leave it.  But that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[solid7]

OP... How about those details?  Tell me about what happened when you transplanted.  The steps you took.
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This plant doesn't look the right color, but it also doesn't look unhealthy.  Is it losing leaves, getting lighter colored, etc?  Because if I'm seeing the picture right, there is actually new growth that's quite a bit greener than the old growth.
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Does your new mix contain any percentage of coco coir?

 

[Bicycle808]

Even as a rookie, i-- like almost everyone else-- know that nobody's gonna hurt their plants with a lil squirt-squirt-squirt of Epsom spray.

I have no objection to anyone questioning conventional techniques. In fact, I think it's a healthy situation, when seasoned hobbyists question the ideas that most take for granted.

But, c'mon... The plants will survive a foliar spray. It might even improve things! And it won't necessarily impede the OP from solving the Scooby Doo mystery of the Yellow Fatalii Plant with the Yellow Leaves....

I just feel like someone posted a completely reasonable suggestion, and a completely unnecessary flag was thrown on the play, and I think it was a bad call.

 

[solid7]

I just feel like someone posted a completely reasonable suggestion, and a completely unnecessary flag was thrown on the play, and I think it was a bad call.

 
Fair enough.  And I'm hearing you out on it.  My counter is that we shouldn't just do things, for the sake of doing things. 
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No enemies should be made in this scenario.  We will disagree on this point. 

 

[Dalia]

   I wouldnt recommend anybody doing things just to do them either, I only suggested it because as I mentioned, I used an epsom solution on my plants earlier this year and saw noticeable results. In my case, a one-time drenching helped, for others it might not, depending on what's going on w their individual plants.. Like I said, I probably shouldnt have said "spray," since I actually mix my own batches when I do use it, and watered with it, didnt just do a foliar spray, but oh well. 
 
Obviously each situation is different, each individual plant is different, we all live in different micro-climates, and so on...and of course knowing as many details as possible to understand what is going on is the best thing, but glancing at the pic provided it reminded me quite a bit of what my hybrid looked like before soaking it, and thats why I threw my two cents in. 
 
No harm intended obviously. 
 
And I agree, no enemies made. We all have different preferred methods of tending to our plants, and we're all here to share and learn from each other's different experiences and techniques. 
 
 
Anywayyyyy - I am looking forward to seeing what happens with Derelict's plants, and hope we can help him over this speed bump. 

 

[solid7]

Derelict is having a hard time posting content, at the moment.  I think he'll be back shortly.

 

[acs1]

A rookie opinion, but luv to read both you guys posts and have learned tons from both of you and from others here. I have the utmost respect for you guys... Different opinions and heated debate about them is good.
I personally find different opinions and techniques about growing, interesting.
 
 You guys exposing us to these growing techniques gives me opportunity to do my own research and weigh all I have learned mixed in with my limited experience to make my own semi educated decision on what I'll do. Most here can put 2+2 together following the crumbs you guys leave here leading to the correct conclusion. Most realize there is no magic potion when all else fails that makes everything all better.... Some things 'seem to work for some and not others....
 
I will carefully listen to everything, but kind of tend to be in the skeptical camp for most everything to do with anything till its reasonably proven out. Suppose its the engineer in me that refuses to be a parts changer instead of a troubleshooter that figures out exactly what is wrong and corrects it vs throwing all different kinds of parts at the problem hoping 1 will eventually fix it...
 
JMO

 

[Derelict]

My reply is in three parts -- Part 1 of 3
 
OK.  Remember, I'm a rookie, so go easy on me if I did something, or say something, that sounds dumb.  I live in coastal North County San Diego, which has a relatively mild climate without precipitation after March and low humidity in the summers.
 
I planted 45 plants over a 3 week period, from April 10 thru May 1st.  Used the most affordable potting soil at the local Home Depot, Kellogg, plus recycled potting soil from last year.  They are planted in a section of the yard that receives full sun at all hours of the day, when the sun is out.
 
Plants were mostly purchased from the Chile Goddess at Cross Country Nurseries, but about 1/4 from the local Home Depot (the less exotic ones).  I followed Chile Goddess' instructions and soaked each rootball in liquid fish emulsion (Kellogg Organic Plus, 2-2-2 nitrogen-phosphate-potash) before planting;  also used Nature's Care Solid Organic Plant Food (10-2-8) at planting.   Then began a fertilizing schedule with the liquid Organic Plus on a weekly basis and the Solid Plant Food every six weeks.   The fertilizers I used are not specifically the ones the Chile Goddess recommended.
 
April and May 2019 were some of the wettest months in memory.    We had some intense storms.  Also, those two months were virtually sunless.  No doubt the plants got far more water and far less sun than they needed. 
 
In spite of the weather, some of the plants grew vigorously through the end of May, and some didn't.  The Bulgarian Carrot was producing full sized peppers, although they didn't turn orange.  The jalapeno plant produced vigorously.  The Chinenses were all ailing, some literally withering -- habaneros (traditional orange and chocolate), Bhut Jolokias (red, chocolate, white), Scotch Bonnet, Carolina Reaper.  The Orozcos were nearly bare stalks.  Aji Colorado and Ethiopian Brown had good growth but no sign of fruit.  Anchor Poblano had fruit but average growth.  The other plants were just muddling through.  Curiously, while the Red Savina is a Chinense, it was thriving -- exploding in growth -- but had no fruit.  I had to throw out some virtually dead, dwarf plants, one Scotch Bonnet and one Bhut Jolokia Whi[[te.
 
[Continue to Part 2 below]

 

[Derelict]

Part 2 - Continued
 
About that time I posed a question here on the pepper forum about struggling plants and one fellow told me to ditch the Kellogg soil -- it has far too much tree bark-- and replant immediately.  I reviewed other online forums about this and confirmed his diagnosis.  So, in the last week of May I replanted the ailing plants -- 8 containers -- but left the ones that were thriving alone.  I used the most soil- and peat-like stuff from Home Depot I could find -- Miracle Gro and the Nature's Care potting soil.  They should have arrested me, I was poking my finger through the bags and both smelling and examining the soil.  Naughty boy, my mother punished me for doing that to candy bars when I was a lad.
 
2-3 weeks later the improvement was obvious, and now four weeks later all the ailing plants are doing well.  Even in spite of the June weather, which was no different than April and May -- cool and gray -- but without the rain.  I'm guessing that since my initial planting date 85 days ago, there have been maybe 10 days of close to full sun.
 
I thought I would lose the 4 Orozco plants but they all look well now, although a bit spindly, but the fruit is coming.   The ailing Chinenses have all turned around.  
 
Curiously, I have grown traditional habanero before, and usually the plant grows tall, but this time my hab plants are low and bushy -- 10 inches high with no long stalks.  Interesting.  I don't know if there are variants for this type of pepper.  I'd prefer them growing tall.
 
I water when the soil at the root line feels dry.  This is about every 3-4 days.  So that means 2 waterings a week, one mid-week and one with the fish emulsion solution on Sunday.
 
I spray once a week with a Sevin insecticide.  I have not had any issues with pests other than a few leaves here and there.  I learned all about hornworms last years, and I was expecting them about the third week of June this year, but they appear to be late, perhaps because of the cool weather.  So I'm wondering when they will finally emerge.  I thought I had some disease in May, because some leaves looked very yellow/brown and mottled, but the consensus on this forum back then was the bad potting soil, and that was the correct diagnosis.
 
[End Part 2, continued in Part 3 below]